Has anyone had issues with bad Senior NCO's

SPC(P) Nathan Stewart — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 21:08:51 -0400

Why is it that when a senior NCO royally screws up they get a slap on the wrist by being demoted 1 rank for 6 months and then get their rank back. This type of toxic NCO is allowed to continue their service when they should of been kicked out for the incident in question. Has anyone else come across similar situations where an NCO should of been removed from service but was not?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2014 9:20 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 21:20:57 -0400

I am under the impression it takes a Court Marshal to demote a SNCO. Sounds like they suspended his rank and if he slipped up again during the suspension then they would take action to reduce his rank. That's probably in his records now and its most likely going to be a career killer. This has happened to a few people in my company (although not SNCO's) and they can't re-enlist now. I'm positive someone will chime in and have a book answer for that.

Yes, I myself have been around a very toxic SNCO. I couldn't tell you how much of his situation was "swept under the rug" as I had no concern with it after the fact. It could be in his records. I do know that he is still the same grade, and acts like nothing ever happened.

Sorry you are having a bad experience. Learn from it and become a better leader because of it!

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Mar 10 at 2014 9:54 PM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 21:54:50 -0400

What did this senior NCO do that led to his demotion? It's not very often that you see a SNCO demoted.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2014 10:03 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:03:20 -0400

I am no senior NCO but I have worked with several in my day. I think after you have been in the military for a few years you pick up on some things. I used to ask myself all the time, "how in the heck did this guy make E-7 or SFC". The only thing I could think of was that he/she used to be a stud back in the day or they have 18 plus years in the Army and there just getting tired of the Army life or they are short timing. I can't tell you how many times I have heard SFC say things like.. "I got 12 months left what are they going to do to me?" Now granted they are correct in some of those statements, but generally you just have to suck it up and drive on.

I would say don't judge a book by its cover. You never no what that SNCO may be going threw in there life. No one is perfect and I think the Army does what it has always done over the years and try and promote the best qualified people for those positions. People change everyday.. that guy that used to score 300 every PT score may decide that he is done and he is happy with being a SSG or SFC or whatever rank so they just ride it out. It is unfortunate that we have some leaders that do that sort of thing but it is what it is.

All I can tell you is to do the best you can and learn from this experience and take it with you for the rest of your career. This isn't going to be the last time you work with someone that may/may not be toxic in your career. That's just my two cents.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Mar 10 at 2014 10:14 PM

SSG Laureano Pabon — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:14:23 -0400

SPC S, when I read your thread I can see that your distracted by this one NCO, whom seems to be different then the rest.

The word Toxic was not a word used in my time, we defined these kinds as A Hole if you know what I mean. interesting part is that I too was an NCO but I was also a SPC, and yes I had one of them as well. For me, I had to do allot or research on my own, but I was also not going to allow him to distract me from my service in the U.S Army.

I took my distraction by getting involved in a hobby (photography), when it came to knowing my job, (MOS), he told everyone I didn't my job, but when the SQT came out I ranked 2nd highest over all. So much for me not knowing my job, I got a unit transfer from his presence and after spending 1.5 years with him, I can say I learned allot, I learned never to be like him, never invalidate your subordinates, never call any human male or female by a racists name, never select one race to join your religion just because they are that race. Its when I got the unit transfer that his rumors followed, but again I didn't pay any attention. I only focused on my job, my hobby and my job again. In the last unit I got transfer too, where my last 6 months in Germany. What happened? I earned 2 Army commendation medals, 1 Army achievement, best communication man of the year award, sent to the promotion board for E-5. All that in 6 months alone. I worked for all of it though by becoming the battalion Photographer so I worked longer then the rest doing what I loved doing in addition to my MOS. Now when I was an NCO, I looked after my own, because I knew what it was like to be all the lower ranks, so I can only say one thing. If you can't get a unit transfer then see if you can get help from other NCO's in your unit to be able to guild you, as for the toxic NCO if he is really toxic, someone already knows about him.

Response by SSG Oliver Mathews made Mar 10 at 2014 10:16 PM

SSG Oliver Mathews — Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:16:36 -0400

When a Senior Non Commissioned Officer, Or given the fact that you are a Specialist, A NCO period breaks the rules or regulations in such away that rank is either suspended or removed it should never be public knowledge to every Soldier that is walking down the street. If the Chain of Command wanted everyone to know what was being done to this SNCO i am sure they would have held a formation and put that business on blast.

As you stated in one of your comments you are now avoiding that NCO. Even though you do not know the extent of the punishment. Lets put this into a imaginary scenario. Lets say that this SNCO is a Married SFC (E-7) with over 17 years active and stationed at Ft. Carson. His Base Pay would be 4200. Now what if they did hold a Court Martial and suspend his rank for 6 months. That means he probably was dropped down pay as well. Well an SSG (E-6) pay for 17 years is 3635. A difference of 565 dollars (give or take), which is almost a quarter of what an active duty specialist makes at his RCP (8 years).

So for his 6 months he lost over three thousand dollars in loss of pay. Potentially received a General Letter of Reprimand (Career Killer). Both of which will and can cause your home life to fall apart quickly. These are just examples of things you probably wont ever see.

That being said, you did not say what he did, nor do i really care. That is the NCO you are referring to and HIS NCO support channel/Chain of Commands business not mine, or yours unless it directly affects you.

Have i been affected by poor leadership? Yes
Have i seen SNCOs get hammered? yes.
Do i Know why? Nope.
Do i consider them toxic because they did something one time to get into trouble? No i dont. I have made mistakes just the same as they have.

I would suggest that you complain about Senior leadership to your friends, IG or your NCO Support Channel, and not on a professional Forum filled with all types of NCOs and officers. Posing a question about toxic leadership and talking about a NCO that you "avoid" because he got into trouble are two separate things.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 9:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Nov 2014 09:32:00 -0500

SPC Stewart from my experiences I have seen a lot of issues that occurred due to misunderstanding. If I had a problem with a particular person regardless of their rank I would approach them and talk to them with respect and dignity. We are all different and we think differently. I try to promote a very welcoming workplace and I would do everything to make sure that happens after all we are a team

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 8:22 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 20:22:11 -0400

Had a psg get a dui he's still in the army no longer a psg though had a private get one and they kicked him out