H.R. 1994 - Should exemptions for VA employees be made to Civil Service law?

CPL(P) Bret Farritor — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 06:39:40 -0400

http://m.govexec.com/management/2015/06/it-may-soon-be-easier-fire-any-va-employee-not-just-top-execs/116353/

This may not have the proverbial 'snowball's chance...' either in the Senate, POTUS Signature or as noted in the piece with the Courts but something needs to change on this front.

It May Soon Be Easier to Fire Any VA Employee, Not Just Top Execs

House panel approves legislation that expedites the department’s firing process and extends probationary period for workers.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jul 2 at 2015 7:00 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 07:00:28 -0400

Anyone who does not perform their job to the expectations they agreed on when the were hired should be fired. This should include all government employees, all politicians are at the top.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 2 at 2015 7:12 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 07:12:55 -0400

If we are going to change civil service law, it should be to all of it, not to just one subset of it.

All this will do is make people not want to be part of this specific organization, which will lower care, not raise it.

Though it will be easier to "fire bad apples" bosses generally do not want to get rid of anyone they cannot replace. If you don't have a steady stream of applicants, bad apples are safe.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 7:39 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 07:39:55 -0400

As a Federal govt employee this needs to be done to all agencies, not just the VA. I am actually on my way to work and can't comment as lengthy as I would like, but I will summise this to say the VA issues are the tip of the iceberg. I've only been in Federal Govt for 3 years, but I've heard my colleagues share much worse stories and I've witnessed a few things myself. I will add more to this later.

Response by PO2 Robert Hunter made Jul 2 at 2015 8:44 AM

PO2 Robert Hunter — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 08:44:37 -0400

I think the larger problem is not the probie period, but the long time employees who have learned to hide within the system. I begrudge the notion they are able to unionize. Unions do not belong in public service; they drive the cost of everything government-related.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jul 2 at 2015 9:40 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 09:40:15 -0400

No, the laws making it easier to fire poor performing employees should be across the Civil Service board. One of the core issues is that people realize that there are no repercussions for poor...or no...performance. You are not doing the job, then get out of the way and let someone else do the peoples business. This attitude should be in the Senate, Court and White House too.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 10:40 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 22:40:31 -0400

I doubt that it will happen. The American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE), which is the Union, will not go for it.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 3 at 2015 11:02 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 03 Jul 2015 11:02:54 -0400

While this is a step in the right direction, it should be expanded to all civil service employees, not just those who work for the VA.

Think of the VA employee in Georgia who recently told a veteran suffering from PTSD "we're not taking new patients at this clinic" with no further explanation. Maybe that guy shouldn't have been fired, but he should definitely have been counseled and possibly placed on probation.

I've also seen my share of civil service employees who don't do the job they were hired for but because they had tenure nothing could be done. Or if I said anything to my leadership I was either counseled myself or told to "mind my business." I'm sorry, but if a civil service employee is assigned to the operations center that I was watch supervisor of, even if I wasn't his supervisor, if I catch him sleeping instead of working I'm going to wake him up and say something. I did that and I got counseled by my Chief who lectured me about "equal opportunity." That particular Chief was an idiot and often talked about things that had zero relevance on the issue at hand. I'm not dogging all Chief Petty Officers, just that particular one. He was the only "Chief" (and I use that term lightly) in my 20 years in the Navy that I considered an E7 and not a Chief.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 10:24 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 10:24:45 -0400

Ok, now I can better articulate my thoughts. As a veteran who has used the VA system, I've witnessed first-hand the abuse and rampant dumbfuckery that ensues. I think there should be some punitive action for folks who cause harm to veterans seeking care. I also think that if you do it for one government agency, you will need to do it for all, but that is going to be hard and if not done judicously and correctly will cause more problems. Unless very specific measures and guidelines are set up, someone will abuse the system. There's already horror stories about how the VA plays with folks who don't buy a spouse's psychic sessions, or orders cookies from their kids. There are also folks who will manipulate the system to get rid of employees who don't follow their beliefs or who they perceive to be against them. By eliminating due process for non-management employees, this can put lower GS employees who are trying to do the right thing, at risk to being fired at the whims of the manager, who could be themself covering up the wrong doing. I would suggest that caution be exercised in that many times, these good for the good of the order things tend to go badly for the ones who are the good employees and trying to do good for the citizens.