God and Political Correctness: Where do you stand?

2015-02-01T19:50:49-05:00

Many are upset about the 'God and Country' recruiting poster. Are we changing things because people are legitimately offended or because we're afraid someone might decide to be offended? Are we being accepting and tolerant or just politically correct?

How soon do we change Art VI to fall in line? "I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America."

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 8:40 PM

2015-02-01T20:40:26-05:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member I think we are going the exact opposite and offending others because they might offend a few (or a lot). Nobody is wanting to say or do anything as they are afraid it will get them in trouble. Higher ranks have to be aware or they will get in trouble and boom QMP knocks on their door.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Feb 1 at 2015 8:49 PM

2015-02-01T20:49:18-05:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, we thought it was OK in WWII!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 9:04 PM

2015-02-01T21:04:26-05:00

We are living in a time when it is fashionable to be anything but conservative because I feel liberals see a change coming that they do not like. As I see it, it is a scorched Earth policy or the perfect time to cause unrest. They are protesting just to protest. Nothing that is going on adversely affects them but just protest and find a suitable enemy. In this case, God. And because this country is ostensibly conservative and religious, the countdown is on. Do as much damage as they can.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 1 at 2015 9:07 PM

2015-02-01T21:07:48-05:00

It's not about who is upset.

It's not about who are offended.

It's being changed because it's against "Policy."

Reposted from the original thread: Quoted from MAJ Private RallyPoint Member as he succinctly answers WHY it was removed.

"It was not the angry left leaning hordes from Mordor that caused the sign to be removed. Rather, the sign itself is not in keeping with existing command messages promulgated by R&R. The angry left-leaning hordes of Mordor did call attention to the sign (and some did go rhetorically fight-club on it), but the underlying problem was that the locals went off script.

Reference the Army Times article: http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/2015/01/16/-phoenix-mikey-weinstein-recruiting/21873217/

"The poster, which features a Special Forces patch along with Ranger, Airborne and Special Forces tabs, includes "a stock image" the command makes available for local recruiters, spokesman Brian Lepley said in an email, "but the text was changed by the local recruiting personnel" and not cleared by command headquarters.

"Had the process been followed, the copy shown would not have been approved," Lepley said."

The local recruiting station here is analogous to the local franchise McDonalds. The big corporate Clown dictates the advertising for the local McDonalds, and if a local restaurant goes off script, Clown descends upon them with 1,800 lbs of attorney."

'God and country' recruit poster axed from Army office

A sandwich board containing a religious-themed recruitment poster was not approved by Army Recruiting Command HQ.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 10:18 PM

2015-02-01T22:18:17-05:00

I am personally not one for political correctness. I have my opinions, my right to them, and my right to say them. The military draws in people from all walks of life and they join for many reasons. Posters advertising for education, enlistment bonuses, becoming a warrior, being part of the few and the proud, being able to travel, learning a new skill, and so on. But many join for the chance to serve God and country. I joined for many reasons, that being one of them. The Army is not a religious organization, but religion exists inside of it. Not just Christianity, which I of course believe to be true and will defend, but of many religions. I personally see nothing wrong with a recruitment effort geared towards those seeking to serve God. It is just one recruitment method. We have Chaplains, we have chapel services, we have faith. Not all are shared, and there will be no agreements made likely ever. But I do not feel we should become scared to say one thing or another and I will not hide my faith or stop defending it.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Feb 2 at 2015 2:29 AM

2015-02-02T02:29:33-05:00

I'm sorry people...call me ol skool......I don't need anyone in my squad, platoon who get offended....I want war doggies....not pussification. I been in and seen the code of conduct switched 3 times now....Capt Sarah bring up a good point. I think it all about changing our culture, and mindset....these homies not offended...they just want to start a fight so they can make some cash bros

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Feb 2 at 2015 5:21 AM

2015-02-02T05:21:36-05:00

I am tired of all the political correctness crap that is going in the military and society in general. In my honest opinion all it is doing is making people weak, a little butt hut goes a long way.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 10:29 AM

2015-02-02T10:29:44-05:00

Ok, so if you don't want to serve for "God and Country" then don't, its that simple, serve for whatever principles drive you but don't tell others what they can or cannot believe in.
Discussions like this about religious freedoms and choices turn in "Who's more offended" competitions.
"I'm offended by the use of the word God"
"Well I'm offended that your offended"
"Well I'm offended that your offended because I'm offended"
Just do what the hell you want and stop worrying about what other choose to do.

Response by SFC Jeff L. made Feb 2 at 2015 12:05 PM

2015-02-02T12:05:23-05:00

Just politically correct. Plain and simple. There is no guarantee anywhere that a person has the right to NOT be offended at what someone says. Sackenheim will say it's about the gov't representing a religion using his tax dollars. So what? Our gov't rightly calls on God every single day at the open of every congressional session. There is a copy of the ten commandments in the Supreme Court chambers along with statues of Moses, Abraham, and Muhammed. The top of the Washington monument has the inscription "Laus Deo" (praise God). In the early days of the capitol building religious services were held each Sunday in the House chamber. I say get over yourselves and stop looking for reasons to be offended.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Feb 2 at 2015 3:57 PM

2015-02-02T15:57:56-05:00

What about My rights as a Christian. Everyone is all about the Muslims they can't see the cross, or the atheists or the Jews or the Catholics. If I want to put a religious saying on the door of my barracks and MY roommates don't have a problem, then their said what is the problem. The CO and Top didn't authorize it as a company supporting or non supporting Memo, or they didn't say that It was an order. It is my belief and My room so there for the way I see it. You don't like it, don't read it. I don't read the Koran and I don't bash it. I don't go to confessional, I don't bash it! You don't believe, then don't. I have enough issues in my life and the way I live or don't live according to the bible. I don't need someone else bashing me for it.
Look at it like this. You see a drunk homeless person on the street, most just keep walking and think to themselves a whole torrent of things of how and why he is the way he is and just keep walking. You can do the same for the don't liking Christian faith and my belief in it. I won't push my faith on you and don't push yours on me. You want to hold a decent conversation about my religion ask ME don't go crying to higher saying that it is wrong that I posted it on my door or anywhere else for that matter.

~rant might be over~

Response by PO2 Steven Erickson made Feb 3 at 2015 12:37 AM

2015-02-03T00:37:22-05:00

Ma'am, it's something much more primeval than being offended.

This is an EITHER / OR:

EITHER...

A. Each of us is born/created with a truth detector or right/wrong discriminator.

OR

B. We are only highly evolved animals and truth or right/wrong is relative.

If A is correct, then anytime we move against what we "know" to be right, we look to rationalize our wrong behavior/beliefs and look for acceptance to justify our behavior. If someone points out that the truth and right/wrong exist independently of our beliefs, we get offended. This is why "tolerance" today is actually "forced approval." I will stop here.

If B is correct, then none of this matters and we should all do anything necessary to improve our short, brutal lives. Natural law is a lie, in this case. Dog Eat Dog!!!

"B" is just too depressing to accept, and it contradicts any need for society. My uncle was Army Intel and was sent to Buchenwald days after it was discovered by US soldiers. He wouldn't say ANYTHING other than... "Without God, Man is capable of doing the most inhumane things to his fellow man."

Hence, if you try to tell me that there is a God (i.e., right and wrong are absolute), or that Absolute Truths exist, and I'm not following those, I will have to defend my behavior because you've offended me.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 12:57 AM

2015-02-03T00:57:29-05:00

Unfortunately, tolerance is a one-way street in America. Oh, you don't support gay marriage? You're evil. Oh, you support a football player taking a knee after a great play? You're evil.

I was blown away when Tebow's actions were shunned, but a football player kissing another man was celebrated. Why not celebrate both? Why is acceptance hypocritical?

When did religion become the bad guy? Why do we have to change everything to avoid offending the few? Yes, I said it...the few. Statistically speaking, those who do not believe are in fact the minority. Of that minority, those who are wholeheartedly offended are potentially fewer than that. Personally, I know plenty of Atheist who could less over the word "God."

Does the word "God" offend you that much? If so, does your opinion matter more than others? What if it offends me to not say the word "God?" Do I count?

In short, it has gotten completely out of hand. The merely fact we cannot say "Merry Christmas" during the CHRISTMAS holidays offends me. But, offending me is okay. We just can't offend those who don't believe in a God. However, those individuals don't mind the days off that come with the Christmas holidays. But, a Christmas tree is evil.

We have taken it too far.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Feb 3 at 2015 9:04 AM

2015-02-03T09:04:46-05:00

"The only things in the world that are offensive anymore are being white, christian, male, and successful" - Unknown

I do not know who first said this quote, but I have used it many times. The issues of being PC and the attempts to force equality (in the fact that all people are exactly the same and can do the same things) is part of what is hurting this country. We were not born equal nor were we made/evolved/whatever as equal. I think people want to be offended when they see someone else have something they have, so they try to take it away.

Note: I do not support equality by its definition, but I support Egalitarianism: of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people deserve equal rights and opportunities.

Essentially: We are equal in our opportunities, but not necessarily in results.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 9:29 AM

2015-02-03T09:29:03-05:00

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. -John Adams

John Adams was a founding father of our nation. He wrote the line above. We are a nation thanks to God. We are not a nation for God. In no way should be a vessel of Christianity or any religion. When I see happening I fear what it can lead and will speak up. I am not offended but I am maintaining what the foundering founding fathers wanted.

An example of this would be if we went go war and the Commanding officer would say:
"May we fought on the behalf of God and win to bring him glory!"

I hope we can agree that should not be said. If you are okay with this you are going down a dangerous road. Now what if you had a Battalion commander that was Islamic? If was to say the same thing would you be okay then? What if he said
"May we fought on the behalf of Allah and win to bring him glory!"

Now I am sure you would not agree with this.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
-Thomas Jefferson

Your Oath is between you and your God. That is why a soldier can take an oath and not use the "So help me God" if they chose not too.

Response by SPC David S. made Feb 3 at 2015 11:49 AM

2015-02-03T11:49:38-05:00

I feel the idea of our government as being godless is false. Secularists are very quick to point out that the word "God" does not appear in the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution. They claim that this is highly significant. It proves that the United States should not be 'under God' in their opinion. Of course, they are correct in one point. The word "God" does not appear in the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution or anywhere else. However, it is doubtful that this fact has the kind of significance they claim it has. Generally, the word "God" will appear in two places in most constitutions. The first place is in the preamble to the constitution. The second place is in the religion clauses in the bill of rights. For example, the word "God" appears in the preamble in eight state constitutions. In four states, the "Supreme Ruler of the Universe" is used instead. By far, the most popular divine reference in a preamble is "Almighty God." This appears in the preamble of 30 state constitutions. In some states, the state constitution does not have a preamble. However, a divine reference can be found in the religion clauses in the bill of rights in each instance. There is only one state constitution which has a preamble that does not have a divine reference of any kind. This is the Constitution of Oregon. But here the words "Almighty God" appear in the state religion clauses. So those that argue that our government is secular well we are far from being Godless. Additional the main reason God is not mentioned in the US Constitution is that it pertains to Congress in their ability to make laws as apposed to the individual as is the case with state constitutions. As to the sign, the phrase "God and Country" never establishes or protects any form of religion. This can be tested by transposing God for any other word. In no way shape or form does the sign protect or signifies the establishment of God(s), unicorns, or any other ideology or deity. Now when the military starts flogging people for not going to church then we have a problem.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Feb 3 at 2015 11:56 AM

2015-02-03T11:56:56-05:00

"By the word religion I've seen the lunacy of mad men from every denomination be called the will of God" - kingdom of heaven

We serve the people, who are free to worship whatever they want. We shouldn't have to be prostalitzed in uniform. Religion can be used to coerce conformity, obedience, inspire guilt, group think and sacrifice. It's the far end of the spectrum that people are suspicious of. History doesn't deny that. The Age of Enlightenment ideals that inspired revolution in the US and France came from thinkers who rejected blind obedience to a God "almighty" and began to use science and philosophy to forge toward the industrial revolution. We envoke Gods when we are faced with decisions and change we are afraid of. Given the current world climate it's no wonder folks are throwing back to that. Religion more often than not inspires self righteousness and far to often excludes more than it includes. We are all one in the American military. I don't see god having a place in recruiting station...unless they want to inspire killing in his/her name.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 1:25 PM

2015-02-03T13:25:41-05:00

We need God more than ever in our military, the devil has made his way into the ranks and our professional military standards, values, ethics have gone to the way side, I have seen it trending this way more in the past 15 years . It use to mean something wearing the uniform, we were accountable for upholding a higher standard than John Doe the civilian. Politics, seriously, should have nothing to do with it, we are not the republican party or the democratic party but the United States Military, end of story!!!

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Feb 3 at 2015 2:09 PM

2015-02-03T14:09:51-05:00

Let it be decreed far and wide and shouted from the highest rooftops, in our aircraft, and on our submarines under the sea: Mike's Commandment, "Don't be an asshole".

Response by SFC Steven Borders made Feb 3 at 2015 2:19 PM

2015-02-03T14:19:06-05:00

The term "God" is conceived as the Supreme Being and principal object of faith. So it can fit any religion. Why do people have to be offended of this word.

Be it Yahweh, Allah, Brahman or Ahura Mazda. They all are words that represent one single Supreme Being.

Who, knows they could all be the same supreme being. You will never know until you cast your last breath on this Earth.

So, people need to stop getting worked up over this sort of thing and move on to more pressing matters like World Hunger and what not.

Just my thoughts.

Response by SFC(P) Tobias M. made Feb 3 at 2015 3:28 PM

2015-02-03T15:28:33-05:00

This is one of those subjects CPT Private RallyPoint Member that we will really never know the answer to. I think that we need to keep things the way that they were. We as a military have become soft due to the Political Correctness we are putting in place.

I feel that we need to keep things the way they were back in the day. When I went to basic training back in 1996 my DS was yelling at me and cursing at me and I dealt with it because I knew that was their job. Break the SM down and then build them back up. If you do not do this then you have the SM's now that do not have respect for his/her leadership and do not have the drive to do what they need to do.

They are sending us (units) SM's that cant pass a PT test, Still cant take apart their own weapon, or even know the rank structure of the military branch they are in. I have one SM that has told me she still doesn't know what each rank is.

How in the world are we allowing these type of people to become SM's in the first place? It is because of Political Correctness. I may be alone with this but it is how I feel. I know that there are some people that are not going to like what I have to say because again of the political correctness but at the same time I don't care.

Response by SSG Kenneth Hammes made Feb 3 at 2015 3:43 PM

2015-02-03T15:43:03-05:00

I think some folks may genuinely find it offensive but I feel personally so long as your not specifying which god or gods it avoids the establishment clause issue.

Response by SSG Rick Bannerman made Feb 3 at 2015 8:08 PM

2015-02-03T20:08:18-05:00

One doesn't need to be an atheist to want a separation between church and state. I'm not a christian, but have a deep and meaningful spiritual life of my own. It is obvious to most that the default religion in this nation is christianity. It is an assumption on the part of many, which I've battled as it effects me for decades now. I'm afraid that your term "just politically correct" means "you don't mean anything to me".

And, Captain, I first put on a uniform in ROTC in the early 1960's, was under hostile fire years later, and finally put my uniform aside in the late 80's. There is no doubt about my dues paid or my honorable service, but it had nothing to do with your god.

There is room for all of us. Lighten up.

Response by PO3 Robert Morgan made Feb 3 at 2015 11:08 PM

2015-02-03T23:08:05-05:00

Love what you wrote.

Response by A1C Gregory Beckham made Feb 4 at 2015 12:51 AM

2015-02-04T00:51:28-05:00

The recruiting poster is catering to the crowd it's supposed to cater to.

Just like ISIS flyers are catering to their respective crowds.

Think about who joins the military... It's not some coffee sipping, skinny jean wearing, politically correct, hippie.

It calls out to a man that loves his country, and believes God will be on his side!

Like ISIS...

I digress, who ever is upset about this recruitment method is most likely not joining any service, any time soon. They're just doing what they do best... Hopping on social media and whining instead of, oh, I don't know, working? Graduating High School? Being productive in general.

Anybody who disagrees and has a life/family, doesn't bother hitting up twitter for this non-sense.

And neither should we. I'm done.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 5:00 AM

2015-02-04T05:00:03-05:00

People just need to leave this be. If you don't believe that is fine. if You do, that is fine. For god and country has been around forever. Its a slogan. People just want to find something to complain about these days. How about its cheaper to just reuse old signs instead of wasting our budget on new ones. If you want to complain about something lets complain about 600-9 or how budget cuts are causing me to not get staples....Dang....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 8:27 AM

2015-02-04T08:27:12-05:00

My parents always taught me that the 3 most controversial subjects are politics, sex and religion. I never really understood why that was the case, but it was true. Then one day I realized that they are are linked! Take a look around in today's age. People want forgiveness by trying to make people believe that what they are doing is OK, even though they are sinning. Now what really is a sin? A sin is anything that can harm yourself or someone else in a physical, mental, or spiritual way.
You want to know where your tax money is going? look at the thousands of people we have locked up in prison because we don't want to kill them for their crimes. it costs a lot of money to house a prisoner, educate them, pay for their cable, and 3 hot meals a day.
How about we take God out of the government so being Gay is no longer a sin? You say being gay doesn't hurt anyone, but look at the statistics of the sexual community with the highest rate of HIV and AIDS. Get someone who is BI, and oh look, now the strait people have it too. It hurts others, so it is a sin.
The book of Exodus clearly states all of the laws to be followed to punish a criminal to maintain a peaceful society. a lot of our laws are based off of it it you look closely, but thanks to lawyers, people are not punished as they should be, because its all about money. The more you pay a lawyer, the better chance you have of getting off.
You can save BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars by cutting off the thumb on the dominant hand of a thief, castrating a rapist, and whipping an abuser instead of sending them to jail. That's how you learn from a sin and not do it again. Not sitting in a cell for YEARS sucking up taxpayer money.
So people want God out of politics so they don't feel like what they are doing is a sin.

Response by SFC Dean Korst made Feb 4 at 2015 9:15 AM

2015-02-04T09:15:11-05:00

M'am the 'God and Country ' should remain on the recruiting posters. Our Government isn't politically correct into this matter. Due to the fact that the US has so many different nationalities in our country that each one has there own belief's, Religion and Faith. So people today do get offended about God and our Country due to there religious beliefs. Those people who do get offend try to get our Government to change things. For an example: The Pledge of Allegiance, should remain in the schools, they should just practice and kept there religious belief's to themselves and at home instead of changing things that is in place. There's two things I hate to talk about and that is Religion and Politics makes me mad, due to the fact people form their own opinion on all sorts of things.

Response by SGT Marvin "Dave" Bigham made Feb 4 at 2015 9:43 AM

2015-02-04T09:43:22-05:00

I thank their are some that are offended, but that's a choice we each get to make for ourselves. You can call me, my country, or my God anything you want, but I don't have to agree or get offended by your choices. I will, in fact (as we all have agreed to), fight to defend your RIGHT to voice your opinion of my opinion. It will still not cause my worship to fail. God is not in need of our government's use of His name in advertising or military articles. He has each of US to show him honor and glorify Him. If you do not believe, that has nothing to do with me or our government. If those in political power feeling they must posture themselves in another manner to get re-elected, they will do so. I will still pray for them and non-believers and God will still watch us.
The current PC structure is rather ludicrous and will, in fact, always offend someone, simply because they invite you to voice such opinions. As they say: "You can fool some of the people all of the time; you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can never fool all of the people all of the time." Follow your heart, trust your brain, and defend the right to do so, for yourself and others. Let them print whatever they want...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 1:36 PM

2015-02-04T13:36:11-05:00

I have never taken offense to the usage of the term "God" in a generic sense ever. I have always done what I see fit. I always "affirm" and say "so help me." When prayer is offered I remain silent out of respect for others, and don't bow my head or close my eyes. What I do not take is people that feel they have a right to force their "God" upon me. I have seen coworkers who have used religious quotes on emails or have said religiously based things in their professional emails, those I will complain against simply because I cannot do the same (preferential treatment). This poster states for "God and Country" that doesn't state which god. To me the only people who truly have a right to be upset by this term would be either polytheistic people, or Atheists, and I would stand by their right to be upset. However, I'd almost guarantee they are not the ones who are having a problem with the posters.

Response by SPC Robert Treat made Feb 4 at 2015 2:20 PM

2015-02-04T14:20:22-05:00

I'm an old school cat, all that I have, and all that I will every have, is because of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. My family has a long history to duty to God & Country. All the way back to my 4th Great GrandFather Thomas Treat who fought in the American Revolutionary War.
This country was founded on Christian beliefs, and as long as I have breathe in my body, I WILL DEFEND those beliefs. This country has to get back to praying and putting God first in our lives. To answer CPT Starr's question, "God & Country" should ALWAYS remain on the recruiting poster, it is one of the beliefs that our ancestors fought for, and we should and shall, continue to fight for it. Amen.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 2:30 PM

2015-02-04T14:30:58-05:00

This is always a sore issue with some. I can see Atheists, Agnostics, and liberals having a problem with this. But I also see the angle from polytheistic religions and Buddhists.

I follow a polytheistic path and when I would cite, recite or reply to anything where the base word was just God, I would be corrected. This was simply adding I swear under God and Goddess instead of just God.

Something need to be changed or people need to get over their path being the only right one. Just a thought, it would be simpler to amend the article than expect human behavior to change.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 4:02 PM

2015-02-04T16:02:04-05:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, it seems as though our military is moving toward a universal religion of "no religion which should be spoken of. " SMs are encouraged to be spiritual, talk to their Chaplain in times of emotional hardship, religious reading materials are passed out in training, etc. However, anything in print regarding something remotely religious is struck down as offensive. There is a disconnect there, no? Feel it, but don't discuss it. Someone may flash a "stress" card.

Response by SGT David Emme made Feb 4 at 2015 5:48 PM

2015-02-04T17:48:02-05:00

If this causes people to be offended-to the point they will not join or consider joining because of a catchphrase like this-then we don't need them. A person who is an atheist or offended by it but has maturity of mind will see past this and join anyways.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 6:00 PM

2015-02-04T18:00:54-05:00

Let them be offended. We aren't changing the army song. We aren't changing the oath of enlistment. We aren't changing the currency. We aren't changing the pledge. Wait. It's only a matter of time. Schools have already changed the pledge. At what point are we truly going to say, you don't like our way of life, get the Ef out!!! I don't live in Afghanistan or Iraq or Syria or Iran or Palestine because their way of life doesn't coincide with mine. I'm not there raising a hissy fit because I don't follow sharia law. If I did decide to bitch and complain in one of those countries, I'd be killed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 6:34 PM

2015-02-04T18:34:38-05:00

I think people like to throw out the same tired punch lines in these situations, with no regard to actual history. First the founders knew the oppression of the church being part of the government, and the control it gave a single religion. It is why we have Freedom of religion, without that oppression, religious freedom would not have been an issue needing discussion. People like to say we are a Christian country based on Christian Values. No, we are a country based on values that also happen to be values of many christians. Or its freedom of, not freedom from religion which is correct, but set up in a manner where of goverment is not involved. See if the goverment played along with the freedom of instead of from mindset, you might do ok for now as you will not be in the minority and Christianity will be everywhere for now. But let me remind you that the Muslum religion is the largest and fasting growing religion everywhere in the world to included the USA. What happens when Islam is everywhere, overtaking the Christianity that was there. I wonder if those same people will be defending the Muslum freedom of, over their freedom from. What we are is a country where our founders were addimate about the seperation of church and state, so as to insure that religious freedom. Correct, the term Seperation of church and state is not in the constitution, but it didn't need to be. As a matter of fact many of the things we hold as truths and/or values aren't there either. That document is very detailed about the role and limitations of each branch of government creating a system. The first amendment was not written to give you Freedom of Religion, but to protect religion from the state. Why becuase the state was already protected by....The Constitution. Read it, and I mean more than the Preamble. Determining, the basis of our nation based on the preable to the constitution is like thinking you have a Solid understanding of Moby Dick because you read the back cover. I am a Christian and a Soldier, there are many Soldiers serving today who do not believe in God and thats ok. They do not want to fight under banners and slogans of a God they do not believe in anymore than, you as a christian want to finght under the banner of Islam. Yet we want to hald the to a different standard of outrage than we would have. Before you choose to attack, as christians shouldn't we first try to understand. Remember this thing we choose to believe in is faith. Is this situation really based on being tolerant or just politically correct or is it based on being a true banner that serving this Nation as a Soldier isn't solely for or based on believing in god. But rather a simple belief that overall what we have here is pretty wonderful and worth defending. So yes for me if I am ever a POW "I will trust in my God and in the United States of America. But that begs to question how strong are your christian beliefs that you need it written in the code of conduct to be true?

Response by SrA Joshua Hagler made Feb 4 at 2015 8:56 PM

2015-02-04T20:56:29-05:00

I have never heard of Art VI before and I do not remember that saying or creed. However, for me, Country first before any god. Now about the poster, I want people to serve our country for our country, not for their god or gods. I do not care what one believes or their motivates for joining, but they serve our country, their brothers and sisters in arms, and the freedom of our country's citizens, and not a god.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 9:38 PM

2015-02-04T21:38:59-05:00

I would guess that a christain too should be upset if you get right down to it. God is on his own side and our trust needs to be in God rather than men or countries. Christians cannot be tolerant of sin regardless of political correctness or what men want to say is right. It is ironic that the Chiefs creed calls for a Chief to stand for what is right, even when others say it is okay. We as christains need to stand for God's word regardless of what men may say or want to guise as being politically correct.

There is no doubt that as the world gets more immoral that it will be more so in the military. Those who have been in for 20 - 30 years can tell you how the military has changed in it's tolerance for what is not right. And it will continue to do so. And I would not be surprised that you will one day see God erased from the military except those who are true followers of him.

Our trust needs to be in God, he is the giver of life and freedom and will judge us according to his word, not mans. God should not be our co-pilot, but he should be our pilot.

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made Feb 4 at 2015 10:33 PM

2015-02-04T22:33:57-05:00

Religion is like ones opinions or body parts, keep it to you self, unless invites otherwise. Political correctness has, in my opinion, gotten so far out of hand. We are a secular country, god needs to not be on government advertisements.

Response by Sgt Michael Selbach made Feb 5 at 2015 12:50 AM

2015-02-05T00:50:49-05:00

I'm not offended by the god reference mostly I'm offended by the "god loving " people who think all wars are holy wars and because I don't follow your belief I and countless other should be killed because I don't like your imaginary friend

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Feb 5 at 2015 5:29 AM

2015-02-05T05:29:41-05:00

We're being PC, and it is ruining this country.

Dr. Benjamin Carson Explains "Political Correctness is Dangerous" in Front of Barack Obama

2/7/13 - Dr. Benjamin Carson speaking at the National Prayer Breakfast More videos at: http://www.freedomslighthouse.net

Response by Cpl Anthony Palko made Feb 5 at 2015 11:38 AM

2015-02-05T11:38:56-05:00

I think the world has become quite the bunch of cry babies. I am not of Judea or Christian faith and not bothered by this. I see it as what ever God/deity you follow. Not sure why people have to make it so hard.

Response by SSG Robert Quayle III made Feb 5 at 2015 4:45 PM

2015-02-05T16:45:13-05:00

Political correctness has gotten so completely out of hand, it is doing far more harm than good. I wonder if this subject would even come up if the poster said "Allah and Country"....I doubt it.

Response by PO1 Michael Fullmer made Feb 5 at 2015 5:54 PM

2015-02-05T17:54:20-05:00

The phrase "For God & Country" has been used for generations, by nations other than ours. Political correctness is a sissy term for folks who fain being offended...and who really cares if they are offended or not. We have become such a litigious society, that anyone will sue anyone for anything. Are they REALLY offended or just want their 15 minutes of fame?

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 6:20 PM

2015-02-05T18:20:27-05:00

I say, if the word God offends you, we can take it off all the recruiting items and you can give back all the dollar bills that say, "In God we Trust."

That seems fair...

Response by CWO4 David Zimmerman made Feb 5 at 2015 7:38 PM

2015-02-05T19:38:08-05:00

Think about people, without GOD none of us or anything else would exist. IN GOD WE TRUST. Everyone else we monitor. Just like the song says; I can swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no hell. Isn't it also funny that the first three words out if everyone's mouth whoever something goes wrong is " Oh MY MY GOD!!" Think about people. GOD bless you all.

Response by SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD made Feb 6 at 2015 1:02 AM

2015-02-06T01:02:53-05:00

Well said, Maam. I will also trust in my God. No one will ever take that away from me. I did not serve in vain. Blessings.

Response by Cpl Robert Wallace made Feb 6 at 2015 1:37 AM

2015-02-06T01:37:19-05:00

"God and Country" was left out of many of the founding documents because those principals were assumed to be self evident. It's clear to anyone that read the Federalist papers and the founding documents for themselves that if the founding fathers knew we were going to turn into a bunch of petty, litigious, self absorbed arrogant pinheads, they would obviously put it in everything.The America we defend isn't just a geographical location or a flag. These in themselves are not exceptional attributes of a nation. These are jingoistic trivialities. America is an idea. Perhaps the most important intellectual achievement for the advancement of human civilization in history. We stray from this idea at our own peril, and have faltered to the degree that we have in the past.

This idea has lifted more people out of enslavement and poverty and than any scientific insight or innovation. They idea that the source of a nations power is the governed, everyone is equally subject to the law, and self determination through ownership and accountability for our own actions, property and ideas. It cultivated the free market system responsible for the most fluid economic class structure in history.

The Lynchpin to this whole Concept, the whole Experiment, is the idea of a supreme author of our individual rights "Endowed by Our Creator" and our capacity for an individual relationship with that creator that transcends any man made government apparatus and ultimately protect us from that apparatus. These inalienable, immutable rights are codified by the law not created by it. Without the acceptance of this transcendent source America as a concept is meaningless, not exceptional and just another pathetic jingoistic intellectual self indulgence. The idea that the Founding Fathers were a bunch of secular academics is an absurdity and a theoretical impossibility as well as imminently disprovable by their writings and the characterization as such indicates one doesn't have the grasp of them that they think they did when they read it on HufPo or Reason.com or whatever. "God and Country" is not just Anti-Communist propaganda, but an Anti-Communist necessity.

Response by PO2 Michael Berry made Feb 6 at 2015 3:48 AM

2015-02-06T03:48:51-05:00

I do not believe in political correctness. I am not a rude person but our country has its foundations and freedoms that I fought for and I am not willing to change those freedoms and foundations just to make someone happy. This country was founded by God fearing men and women. I believe that there is plenty of God to go around.

If you do not like what you get in the U.S. then leave. I hope anyone that does finds a better place for them. I have been in many parts of this world and as far as I am concerned this is the greatest place to live.

I joined the Coast Guard to protect the freedoms that Americans enjoy as a natural right. I will be dammed if I let someone take away my freedoms just because they might be offended.

I may not have to like you but I do have to tolerate you and your thought but not necessarily your actions.

Response by Cpl Clinton Britt made Feb 6 at 2015 5:43 AM

2015-02-06T05:43:23-05:00

I think that this Country eas founded on certain beliefs and that we should respect it. If our way of life offends anyone, then they should go nack to where they came from

Response by Cpl Robert Clark made Feb 6 at 2015 8:35 AM

2015-02-06T08:35:16-05:00

In boot camp in 1987 my Drill Instructors told us repeatedly we served for God, Corps and Country.

Response by SSgt Thomas L. made Feb 6 at 2015 9:59 AM

2015-02-06T09:59:19-05:00

What I have a problem with is not God, but in the expectation that the person next to you will have the same understanding of what God is that you do. Implicitly expecting uniformity in belief from those around you is a very subtle form of oppression. I don't think it's exemplified in this particular instance, but it's there none the less, especially in the military. Now, I personally have no problem with whatever marketing mumbo jumbo the DoD wants to throw out to get people to sign up, just call it what it is... manipulation. The military, with this ad campaign, is attempting to use your religious beliefs to get you to sign up. It's not wrong, it's just life. The motto "For God and Country" doesn't strike any particular chord in me, but it does in others. If it gets people to sign their name on the line, then it's done what the PA pencilnecks had in mind. Am I offended? No... but neither am I impressed.

I feel the same way about Article VI of the Code of Conduct. It's there to give people hope and a baseline for their mental state. It's there because most Americans believe in God. I really wasn't one to enjoy God being shoved in my face while I was in the military, but I get it in this context. If someone is offended by the inclusion of the word God in this instance, they are missing the point.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 11:07 AM

2015-02-06T11:07:25-05:00

"Under God", it was added to the Pledge of Allegence in 1954 and odly since then it seems as thought we have become less and less about following Him or seeking out what His guidence is for our great nation and more concerned with what is good for "man". Somehow I dont think the God that I learned about is concerned with political correctness; if we are not in his favor on Judgement Day then he is going to call us what we are and cast us out of his sight. I just dont think he is going to sugar coat anything to spare our feelings.

Now, as Christians we are to strive to be like Christ. Since Christ is God then Jesus would not be politically correct (remember what he did to the temple when it was full of sin and disgrace) therefore if Christ is not politically Correct why as Christians are we concerned with being all PC. Stop being scared to hurt someones feelings.

We should be civil to each other and show love, but sometimes love hurts. I feel, on the larger scale that political correctness may very well be a tool of satan. A tool used to slowly breakdown the bariers and get us accepting sin. We are all weak, but can find strength if you know where to look and that strength does not come from this worldly view of accepting everything and everyone.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 12:48 PM

2015-02-06T12:48:40-05:00

Although I am certain it is a confluence of the several causes listed here, I think ultimately, it has to do with a growing "awareness" (or enlightenment). For example, the fact that "Person A" may bot be offended by a word, doesn't mean that the word itself isn't offensive.

In kind, the question isn't really whether or not the appearance of the word "God" is, or even might be, offensive.

The question is, "does this implicitly bypass the Establishment Clause?"

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Feb 6 at 2015 3:32 PM

2015-02-06T15:32:24-05:00

I don't think their really upset....so far Liberals have destroyed this country and when they are challenged about their way....they have no answer....so what they do is look for something they can attack to get peoples mind off the other bad things they donne
Don't get me wrong...the Libs in the republican party do the samething, Boener, McConnel, Lindsey Grahm...sry bout spelling...hands pretty messed up from surgery

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Feb 6 at 2015 7:07 PM

2015-02-06T19:07:42-05:00

CPT Sarah Starr - our lives are complicated once we put on a uniform. We need to adjust our own philosophies -put them on hold even while we have our worlds turned upside down by being introduced to not just combat environment, but 3rd world climates, terrain, philosophies and customs that may seem downright bizarre. That is also part of our readjustment - on top of anything in service we encountered we may now have to deal with. All of these create so many layers of conflict within us, some of which we admit to ourselves, and a lot more we do not. And the civilian world can and never will even have a clue, which is why we have worked so hard to develop programs to quietly help our military, veterans and families. When we are having really hard days, remember there are a lot of us working hard to help you - in public and in private.

Response by SSG Sean Garcia made Feb 7 at 2015 5:47 AM

2015-02-07T05:47:36-05:00

I think that a lot of this is just plain ridiculous. I said the "Pledge of Allegiance" and sang "My Country Tis of thee.." And I think as a child this taught me more about honoring our country more than anything.

I really find it offensive that these people are offended by the terms "For God and Country" I cannot believe what this world has come to

Response by SrA Matt Shuman made Feb 11 at 2015 7:40 AM

2015-02-11T07:40:01-05:00

Well said

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 5:55 AM

2015-03-11T05:55:01-04:00

People are just always looking for something to be offended about, blame it on everything having to be PC now. I believe in God about as much as the Easter bunny but I have no problem with it being in the enlistment oath and pledge of allegiance. When those sentences come about I just don't say them. I don't whine and cry that they are there.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 6:17 AM

2015-03-11T06:17:57-04:00

eh.... I go with my gut and my gut says god... I have always ended up on top... so... eh

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 9:37 AM

2015-03-11T09:37:13-04:00

Recruiting is designed to target certain demographics. There happens to be a large demographic of Chritians as well as other faiths that identify with military service as an act of faith. Regardless of our national discussion on religion and the Gov't, I don't see an issue with reaching out to certain communities using what those demographics identify with.

Not only are we an all volunteer force, but, we are supposed to be representative of the country as a whole. Recently, the DOD changed policies irt homosexuality and is looking at transgender policies. If we are going to take the stance that the military will not discriminate based on individual values and beliefs, then that has to include religion; even if that offends those who do not follow a certain faith.

Response by TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn made Mar 11 at 2015 3:09 PM

2015-03-11T15:09:51-04:00

I served with just about every race, belief there is. I learned many thing from all these different people, mostly good some not so good. 98% said they wanted to preserve the core values and laws(Constitution) that the USA stood for. Now I'm told all the time that, you can't sat that, I say why not? If they can call me everything, but what I am, a God fearing, patriot, American! No I not be pc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 3:34 PM

2015-03-11T15:34:51-04:00

As a pagan soldier, I am the first to say that all religions should be treated equally. However, that being said, the phrase "God and Country" is a time-honored tradition. What is the military based off of, if not tradition? While I do not think any one religion should be given any credence over another or pushed upon soldiers, I dont see a problem with people using the phrase to promote service in the greates military in the world. And to those who are, or may be offended by it, I say "gods be with you," and hope they remove their head from their fourth point of contact posthaste and accept tradition for what it is. Thicken your skin and move on or the military will eat you alive. Plain and simple. PC should not exsist in the military at all. You either accept it as is, or dont be a part of it. You change for the service, you dont change the service for you.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 5:00 PM

2015-03-11T17:00:51-04:00

I am not religious by any means but I do feel that we are entitled to any religious practice. If it offends you, that does not give you the right to condemn it. When men and women fight for this countries freedom, they should at least have religious freedom. I have always felt that forcing political correctness is the same as running to mommy and daddy because your classmate has a better toy than you, and if you can't have that toy then nobody can.

Response by SSG Harper Peterson made Mar 11 at 2015 8:25 PM

2015-03-11T20:25:37-04:00

I feel that Political Correctness has brought down our society. We are so worried about hurting someone else's feelings that the point of a message is lost. If we have to change wording on things to apply to everyone (e.g. Art VI) than we try to please everyone but in reality we please no one.

As for God, there were times and situations for which I should not have made it through without divine intervention. I served my nation and "my God" with pride.

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Mar 11 at 2015 9:57 PM

2015-03-11T21:57:24-04:00

It's not that I'm upset about the 'God and Country' poster, I don't personally care about other people's beliefs or expression of said beliefs. The issue is that I find it entirely unconstitutional, and my allegiance to the constitution and oath to defend it will always come first and foremost. Whether someone is offended or not is meaningless, also for constitutional reasons, and something I find people generally try to use to stifle discussion about controversial things.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 12 at 2015 12:51 AM

2015-03-12T00:51:40-04:00

"I do solemnly swear, that I will support and defend the constitution of the United States"... ... "So help help me God"...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 1:00 AM

2015-03-12T01:00:59-04:00

I think PC is the very fabric that is destroying our Constitution we defend... It is taking away our freedom of speech and our freedom of religion... No where does it say you have freedom of speech just so long as you don't offend someone... And our freedom of religion is freedom to openly practice or not to practice without interference or discrimination from others or the government... PC is taking all this away... I say who cares about PC and if you are offended walk away, and if you don't like our rules the borders are open... We are suppose to be land of the free... Not "land of the politically correct.."

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 3:07 PM

2015-03-12T15:07:10-04:00

I couldn't have said it better my self. I am not hyper religious but this country was founded on religious principals. A personal belief in God is an important part of my military core values.

Response by MSgt Abraham F. Negron made Mar 17 at 2015 12:20 PM

2015-03-17T12:20:20-04:00

God always! In this world, too many people worry about being politically correct. God is the reason you and I are on this earth breathing and living our lives. Even when we don't walk with him, he is always with us. Have faith, be bold, and stand on the truth of his word. He loves you and he will never leave you or forsake you!

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Mar 17 at 2015 1:36 PM

2015-03-17T13:36:49-04:00

The biggest issue I have for using the phrase God and Country is that I have noticed a growing trend by individuals that use God as a tool to achieve their misguided beliefs. Case in point these individuals argue that its their right of free speech and expression and that our country was founded by Christians, but they fail to recognize that in using God you violating a Ten Commandment of "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain". I care very little for political correctness, but do my best to honor the Commandments and in honoring God, I recognize that their are many languages for God, Dios, Allah, ect. Therefore God is represented in all languages and cultures which means He is not a only Christian God!

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Mar 17 at 2015 2:40 PM

2015-03-17T14:40:27-04:00

Generally speaking, I will defend another's 1st Amendment rights to freedom of religion, even if their religion is not my own.

I simply expect that others likewise respect MY freedom of religion.

That said, I don't think it's right for the Army to use that slogan. For one, it seems to be a prima facie violation of the Establishment Clause. For another, I was in the Army long enough that I know I don't want the US Army claiming my God as its own.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 4:09 PM

2015-03-18T16:09:56-04:00

Murphy's Laws of Combat

25. There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole - Who gives a damn what you believe, but for sure, you have all of eternity to sort all that out.

This country was founded upon those such religious beliefs and political correctness is dismantling our culture and society.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-03-18T17:39:51-04:00

I am what I refer to as a "combative atheist", because I enjoy arguing about religion. That being said, the "God and Country" poster issue to me is a joke. The whole point of our country is supposed to be freedom. I have the freedom to think religion is crazy, but I whole heartedly believe everyone should have the freedom to believe whatever they want. Who is supposedly offended by this? The majority of religions and people believe in a monotheistic God.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 7:12 PM

2015-03-18T19:12:51-04:00

I originally posted this in another thread, but it seems even more fitting in this one...

I am rather indifferent about people's personal religion choice, but I feel that attitudes, policies, leadership philosophies, laws, regulations, mission statements, etc. that cannot stand on their own without reference to god(s) have no place outside of the individual's home.

Basically, if it affects anyone outside of your immediate family, religion and/or your religious beliefs should not be part of it and shouldn't be mentioned.

I have no issues if your religious beliefs helped you get to your point of view, but if you cannot translate that into leadership philosophy, policy, mission statement, regulation, etc. without reference to that religion, it's not a valid standard to expect anyone besides yourself to follow.

The ONLY exception to this is if your job is literally religion related (Chaplain, church grounds-keeper, Rabbi, etc.).

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 10:16 AM

2015-03-19T10:16:35-04:00

Here's my take: Christian God (and Jesus for those who believe and trust in) has provided personal salvation for centuries in this country, along with being a tradition representing higher power and Christianity as a predominant American religion.

India for instance worships Krishna and many other gods as a predominate traditional religion. 'Civilized' Middle-Eastern countries worship Allah as a predominant figure, while far-East idolizes Buddha and Shinto.

Though we as a diverse country should embrace and respect all religions, we should give greater honor to the one upon which the US constitution and majority of laws were founded, all without putting other religions down.

Boiling down to 'political correctness', we should acknowledge Christianity as a leading religion in America in a loving and patient manner, along with showing EQUAL RESPECT to the other 'god(s)' as long as their 'gods' don't advocate any violence or use of force, just my .02.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2015 3:27 AM

2015-03-20T03:27:06-04:00

It seems no one is worried about offending those of us that want to keep the God in the military. I would be offended if they took "God" out of our oath and I find it offensive that people would complain about a poster that has for "God and Country." What is the alternative..."For Country"? Our founding fathers felt our rights were inalienable...that they were God given. When you take God out of the equation, you have rights that are bestowed upon us from a Government. Those right can be taken away. That offends me. Sorry for getting too preachy.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2015 4:13 AM

2015-03-20T04:13:58-04:00

"Are we changing things because people are legitimately offended or because we're afraid someone might decide to be offended?"

Yes.

"Are we being accepting and tolerant or just politically correct?"

Politically correct. I have said this before, somewhere on RallyPoint; the American Populous in general is now a proverbial 2 year-old, testing boundaries and limitations. Nowadays, if somebody sneezes and you, out of habit or religious reflex, respond with God Bless You, you could probably be sued. People are scared.

"How soon do we change Art VI to fall in line? 'I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.' "

It is coming. Right alongside removing 'In God We Trust' from currency.

It is not so much people being actually offended by religion, but that we as a nation support people being so 'soft' to be offended by things like Christmas or God in general. It is on par with suing Red Bull because they did not physically give me wings.

I am convinced that people aren't really dumb, ignorant or soft, but are just REALLY good at selling it.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 1:18 AM

2015-03-23T01:18:22-04:00

It's not a matter of political correctness or offense. a A uniformed recreuiter publicly posted recruiting material that acted as an endorsement of the Christin religion and was called out for it. It is simply having the First Ammendment reinforced.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 2:16 PM

2015-03-23T14:16:17-04:00

If you don't like it then don't sign up aboutface and leave

Response by SSgt Randy Saulsberry made Mar 25 at 2015 1:14 PM

2015-03-25T13:14:07-04:00

I personally don't think that this is a straight black and white issue but that it has its grey areas as well. I am an atheist, and I believe most atheists, in the military at least, don't really care. I think it becomes a problem when a person is thrown into a situation where those words are to be said, refuses to say them, and then meet opposition for not saying them. Then that person decides to go to war about that issue because their wishes were not respected. I may be wrong but I feel that this is how most of these problems with aspects of religion become some huge deal. I definitely know that I don't care but grantee if I have to do some sort of oath and I choose not to say the part referring to God, if I get any push back because of it, it's war time. It's a person's constitutional right not to say that. I mean how would you feel if you were told to say "to support and defend the constitution of the UnitedStates, Allah Akbar"

Response by SSG Buddy Kemper made Apr 14 at 2015 9:40 AM

2015-04-14T09:40:28-04:00

I'm trying to stand for CHRIST....but tryin' real hard to be PC all the while. Thanks you for your service, Capt!!!!

Response by CW4 Larry Curtis made Apr 15 at 2015 12:41 AM

2015-04-15T00:41:33-04:00

Well, without having scrolled down to read the other responses to this question...yet...I will begin my response by saying that I'm an old guy steeped in traditions and my response will probably be quite irritating to many people. I am totally irritated and turned-off by this Political Correctness doctrine, so where do you think that leaves me? To me, PC denies the ability to be completely frank and honest in many situations and promotes, albeit in a subliminal way, the act of prevarication. And for what? So we won't offend someone with cold, hard, honest facts? Simply stating the obvious is many times no longer allowed without the accusation of bigotry. So to "soften the blow" and avoid offending anyone (or be called a bigot), we prevaricate instead of just coming out with it. I would much prefer to get a full dose of the cold hard facts than to have someone attempt to paint a rosy picture of a situation which isn't really so rosy.

So, given the choice between God and Country and Political Correctness, I go with tradition because it is a unifying force whereas Political Correctness only causes increased sensitivity to things which might be offensive while at the same time gives increased license to BE offended whenever someone says something you don't like or agree with, which only serves to further divide us. From a racial perspective, I can honestly say that I know several people who have immigrated to this country from Africa and became naturalized citizens who are not black, yet they are still African-Americans by definition. I was born here in this country and consider myself native to the USA...I am a Native-American but I am not an American Indian. In fact, this same principal applies to several million black Americans as well, they are as Native-American as I am, yet Political Correctness requires that we refer to them as African-American. Please don't misunderstand, I do not intend to diminish anyone's heritage of which they should be very proud, but this PC pigeon-holing according to ethnic roots is really silly. I am of European decent, but apart from my personal experiences from my military service, Europe does not tug on my deepest spiritual heart strings as my homeland. I was blessed to be born in the United States of America, and I am a Texan by the grace of God. ;)

God and Country is a traditional concept. I am a traditionalist. And it is through this Political Correctness doctrine that is supposed to reduce the level of bigotry and offensiveness between us that I feel is actually minimizing the concept and tradition of God and Country. So far as I can see Political Correctness doesn't give two hoots or a holler about whether I am offended for being belittled for my faith...therefore it as invalid to me as God and Country may be to you...and herein lies our dilemma. If it is so wrong and Politically Incorrect to offend, why do people continue to offend me for my values, and can seemingly do so freely under the auspices of Political Correctness? I mean, what's good for the goose should also be good for the gander, right? I'm just sayin'...

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 7:57 AM

2015-04-15T07:57:27-04:00

I'm legitimately offended any time I'm forced to pretend I believe in a Creator; my solution is to leave those phrases out of every oath I take and refuse to bow my head in prayer. It's pretty easy to follow my own conscience there without having to make a fuss about it.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 17 at 2015 2:10 PM

2015-04-17T14:10:01-04:00

I'd like to say "for Country". We do not fight for God, and we are not Knights of the Lord. We fight for and defend the constitution of the United States, not the Torah, Bible, Quran, or any other Holy Book. Some may not believe in the same God, God's or anything, so to keep everything secular would be in the best interest of everyone. Everyone has their own faith, so the individual should know what they are fighting for.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 2:21 PM

2015-04-17T14:21:26-04:00

It is not the reference to God that I'm against -- it is the connotation that we are somehow drawing similarities between the US military and the Holy Crusades. Sadly, however, many people are okay with that horrible connection. The Crusades were NOT a bright time for the world.

I'd be much more accepting of "Do it for your country," "Fulfill your sacred duty of defending your country," "Do it for you family, your friends, your country." Or anything along those lines. Not "For God and Country."

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Apr 20 at 2015 2:09 PM

2015-04-20T14:09:43-04:00

How does that apply with those that follow the Commandment about using God's Name in Vain? Looking at your question for the Commandment God has become a tool or weapon by which people judge each other and in doing so they completely remove what God stands for. What is greater obeying a Commandment or playing politics? As for written laws a wise Rabbi 2000 years ago stated "Give on to Caesar what is Caesar and Give on to God what is God." Perhaps its best to follow a Commandment and the teaching of a wise Rabbi.

Response by CPT Jason Torpy made Apr 21 at 2015 10:27 AM

2015-04-21T10:27:15-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member seems to have been drawn into the Christian Nation propaganda that says we should blame 'angry atheists' for what is really evangelical christians. An evangelical uses their power to have a mass christian prayer or take rights away from gays or give special privileges only to christians and then they blame atheists when someone calls them out for abuse of power.
No one is 'offended' here. This is about professionalism. If they were promoting Islam or selling Amway, the practice would be stopped just the same. "God" is not an American value. We're a secular nation with a rich, vibrant, and uninhibited religious culture. Individuals have freedoms but that doesn't mean you get to use your position and power to promote your personal beliefs. People only get confused about this when Christian Nation evangelicals start blaming others for their abuse of power.
ps. I think the recruiting thing was an honest mistake.
pps. Yes, Art VI and a raft of other religious promotions in official documents should be removed, but 'my God' is a good change from what it used to say just "God". If people want to add that fine, but the constitution prohibits the government and its officials from promoting religious beliefs.

Response by SGT Michael Touchet made Apr 21 at 2015 11:12 AM

2015-04-21T11:12:43-04:00

Why is the reference to God so offensive to anyone, when it is really some who misuse His name. If you consider what I mean when a Christian envolkes the name of the Lord in prayer it is not to harm anyone but rather to comfort them or others in a difficult time, it's to give thanks for all that the Lord has provided. It is no to pass judgment or to condem.

If you are a Christian and you truly believe, then you know that its not your right or place to pass judgment on anyone, that rest solely with God. You don't have to agree with the way that others live; but you do have to love thy neighbor and pray for their salvation. So then I ask why if this is the message that God teaches is His name so offensive? I give up trying to figure it out; but I do have to question the motives of those who seek to wipe His name out from any reference in our society, because it they who really create and spread hate and division. Wake up America God love you!

Response by PO1 Ken Johnson made Apr 21 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-04-21T13:02:01-04:00

OK, so let me tell you a little about me and you determine what little box I fall into...

I don't approve of abortion, but it is not my decision to make. I don't have to answer for that decision (and oh by the way, how come it is not a crime to kill a "fetus" but a man can be tried and convicted for killing a woman and her unborn child? Is there a difference between a "fetus" and an unborn child? I'm confused)

I personally am attracted to the members of the female version of the human species. But if a man married another man, what effect does that have on my life? About the same effect as my cousin being married to {his own words, not mine} " a black man ". To me, he's just my cousin's husband and her children are more little ones that I help spoil.

I am very happy and active in the church that I attend and contribute my tithes and offerings on a regular basis. I invite folks all the time.... if they say they are not interested, then my feelings don't get hurt. If they say they don't believe in God, I may ask questions but I don't feel the need to get confrontational, truth be told, I personally think we all have doubts from time to time... I can't relate to most of the disciples, but I can relate to Peter. He blew it all the time, even cursed and said "I DON'T KNOW HIM!!!" But, he still moved people in his day and his words still move people today. But if you tell me, I'm Jewish or I'm Catholic, so I don't think I'd like it at your church... then, that is fine! FYI to my Christian brothers and sisters, the Bible tells us to "share the good news" not to beat anyone over the head with the good news. And just in case you forgot, not everyone that Jesus Himself spoke with believed.... the rich man, the other thief on the cross...

Yes, most everyone can find something in just these few words to be upset with me because I believe this, or I comdemned this or I DIDN'T COMDEMN this.

I am a Christian, but I believe the whole Bible, not just what suits me and my pet peeve. If you hold one sin over another, you are forgetting James 2:10 where it points out that even if we keep the whole law, but offend in one part, we are guilty of all. Romans 3:23 says that all fall short... and Jesus himself when the woman caught in adultry {another by the way, where was the man? Why didn't those religious leaders bring him too? Was it one of their pals?}, sorry I digress, the woman caught in adultry, what did Jesus do? He scribbled something in the sand and said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Have you ever wondered what he wrote in the sand... maybe it was something like "last Monday at 8 pm" and the guy who brought her to him was with her last Monday evening...

We need to remember, we have enough to do just to take care of the person who looks back at us in the mirror every morning, let alone taking care of those around us.....

OH, ONE MORE DIGRESSION FOR MY ATHESIST READERS HERE..... I got to ask and I'm sorry, don't want to offend anyone (see me being PC there? ☺)... but if you don't believe there is a God, why do you get so offended when I mention him! Just in case you missed it, that was typed in the sarcastic font!

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Apr 21 at 2015 5:33 PM

2015-04-21T17:33:44-04:00

Let me play devils advocate for a moment (with the caviet that I do believe in God).

I completely understand why people without faith get offended by the mention of God when it relates to government. I personally avoid (or at least approach with cynicism) small businesses that "wear their faith on their shirtsleeve" (meaning they advertise that they are a "Christian" business)... simply because I've had an inordinate number of bad experiences with them.

I also typically find people that are overly vocal about their faith to be judgmental and hypocritical.

We as Christians frequently forget the greatest commandment, and need to be careful that we aren't pushing someone away or making them feel like they need to defend themselves.

Response by SSG(P) Dominique Summers made Apr 21 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-04-21T17:39:25-04:00

Maybe all things that are public/governmental in nature should drop any religious associations. This would stop a lot of controversy. Believe what you will and continue to do so, but one religion should not be state sponsored.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-04-25T14:46:39-04:00

To me, it seems that there is a group that pushes for tolerance and acceptance. However, it seems they solely push for tolerance and acceptance of their position and beliefs. They attack, protest, and try to censor the other side (in some cases a large majority at that) which presents any disagreeance to their views. It seems rather hypocritical. It runs the range from gay marriage (which I personally don't care about either way) to gun ownership (which i fully support as does the bill of rights) to the ability to run a privately owned business in a way the ownership believes.

Everybody has heard about the "Christian" bakeries refusing to make cakes. They were fined, threatened, and loudly protested against by the media. Yet the pro gay bakeries that refused to make cakes for a heterosexual marriage, that was just them sticking to their beliefs. The govt. of Colorado said as much.

I have lived in California for a length of time. They are all for banning just about all types of firearm ownership. I wouldn't care to or be interested in asking them to give up medical marijuana. But, if they wanted to live in Texas, that's exactly what they'd have to do.

The liberals and democrats are hypocrites. But, like with Mrs. Clinton, what difference does it make. For the record, I'm quite tired of the hypocrite supposed commander in chief using his pen and his phone while exceeding his authority and mandate.

One thing is for sure, liberal states are not good for business. They will tax and regulate you out of existence.

And yes, the G-d and country poster would be attacked by the liberals. Political correctness is a joke. Whatever happened to the military being a force designed to fight and win wars? Political senior leadership is the answer to that. I'd have been glad to serve under Patton as an e3.

Being offended is one of the weakest things someone can be. You're offended? My response is usually, well what point are you trying to make. I'm pretty sure the Taliban was offended by the US military dropping 100k people in their country. Their response was to plant bombs and try to shoot at us. Liberals response to being offended is to complain about it on facebook and file a lawsuit. I'd just as soon that no liberals were allowed in the military.

Response by SGT Sean Arceo made Apr 27 at 2015 4:04 PM

2015-04-27T16:04:06-04:00

I am so tired of political correctness. People nowadays are just so sensitive. This country was founded by God fearing men, and they were not afraid to express that. If people do not want to hear about God, or see God in some poster then get out of this country. I am appalled by so-called Americans who follow those ignorant liberals or tree-huggers who think that we need to be nice to everyone because we're afraid of hurting people's feelings. Again, we take the oath to defend this country, and in the end "So help me God" is what seals that oath. I am proud to have God in my life and in this country.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Apr 27 at 2015 9:16 PM

2015-04-27T21:16:25-04:00

I think the movement for Political Correctness has brought this country to its knees. It's pathetic to watch someone claim to be offended over something someone might say, no matter how truthful it may be. The conversation shuts down with that one phrase, because we are too wimpy now to accept another idea other than our own.

Response by TSgt Tim (lj) Littlejohn made Apr 30 at 2015 11:59 AM

2015-04-30T11:59:23-04:00

When it's all said and done, serving God first, than country you will never be wrong or sorry!!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 12:27 PM

2015-04-30T12:27:48-04:00

Sometimes people just need to draw a line and say "Too bad. It does NOT mean what you accuse it of meaning and you need to just deal with it".

It surely isn't forcing anyone to believe in anything.

It reminds me back in the early 90s when Howard Stern was new and on the free airwaves. People were whining and bitching constantly about how crass and perverted and racist he was. They were demanding he be taken off the air, even though there were far more people listening to him.

Ummm, change the f'ing channel!

"But my kid listens to him!", they say. Then parent better.

Bottom line - this society has to stop bending over and bowing down to every freaking complaint some overly sensitive douchebag has. If the poster said "You WILL serve God and Go to Catholic Mass" - then they'd have a legit gripe.

Response by CW2 Martin Brannan made Apr 30 at 2015 1:50 PM

2015-04-30T13:50:20-04:00

Which god is it that our military serves, exactly, and what evidence do you have that we actually serve this particular god?

Response by TSgt Christopher D. made May 2 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-05-02T13:00:30-04:00

Offense has become the shield behind which anyone can hide from anything that either (a) challenges their world view, (b) proves a long-held belief false, or (c) wants to not be subjected to the opinions of others. Claiming to be offended is a weak defense.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 7 at 2015 6:48 AM

2015-08-07T06:48:09-04:00

I've noticed that "politically correct" tends to get used whenever anyone other than a straight white Christian male has the audacity to expect to be treated with respect, or if any actions occur in that effort.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2015 7:04 AM

2015-08-07T07:04:03-04:00

In my opinion, many things about the Army started falling apart when PT's stopped being gray cotton and we were no long all we could be.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Aug 7 at 2015 8:16 AM

2015-08-07T08:16:45-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member I'm not upset with it at all. I believe that God plays an important role in everything we do. Of course that is just my opinion. There are many out there that don't believe in God. I'm not here to offend or argue, but just give my perspective. I remember when I was little how important is was to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning in the classroom. What happen to those days and those practices? Is this why America is going int he direction that it is with hate, crime, and children who won't obey their parents, because they are afraid if they give them a spanking they will be turned in. I got it we have creeps out there and abusive parents and they should pay the price, but don't lump all of American into the same round hole. CPT Private RallyPoint Member I'm all for changing it right now: "I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America." Again, my RP Members just one man's opinion.

Response by SSG Dylan Tyahla made Aug 7 at 2015 8:37 AM

2015-08-07T08:37:54-04:00

To each there own. I disagree with subjecting people to prayer during military ceremonies. If people are offended they can't just walk out of a a formation. I think religious freedoms are very important. I think adding religious bias to government is wrong. " Blue Laws, God being added to the pledge in 1954, politicians pushing their believes"

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 1:17 AM

2015-08-08T01:17:01-04:00

I don't believe in either

Response by PO2 Jeffrey Sheibels made Aug 8 at 2015 1:17 AM

2015-08-08T01:17:49-04:00

I say screw political correctness. I prefer to be straight forward, honest, and speak the facts as they are. If you believe in God and a religion, who am I to tell you otherwise?

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Aug 8 at 2015 1:30 AM

2015-08-08T01:30:44-04:00

The PC and challenges to first amendment have made many scared to offend. I wonder if at some point we can talk about issues, and not perceive everything as an attack. My God v. Your God,... who's God is better,... expand that to other relations... and actually talk... but instead... we PC and talk gibberish and never get anywhere

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 8 at 2015 2:12 AM

2015-08-08T02:12:29-04:00

We are afraid to offend the few yet end up offending the many. The PC nonsense needs to stop. We are destroying our nation with the nonsense

Response by CPL Richard Flagg made Aug 8 at 2015 7:43 AM

2015-08-08T07:43:46-04:00

Political Correctness is a LIE; foisted upon the rest of us by the Liberal minority; however like that saying goes, "the squeaky wheel gets oiled" applies here. Instead of just putting those knuckleheads in their place; the Majority of Americans regardless of Race, Color, Creed have been subjected to denigration and nuisance lawsuits over minor inconsequential shit.

Liberals play a dirty game to all who disagree with them are subject to personal attacks and name calling/labeling. Yeah, they are the most close minded, intolerant elitist asses you will ever meet; sure they Talk the Talk, but when push comes to shove the don't Walk the Walk.

They may preach inclusiveness and all that Pie in the Sky nonsense; but deep down in their heart of hearts they are Goose Stepping agents of the wrong kind of change.

Response by PO1 Shahida Marmol made Aug 8 at 2015 7:53 AM

2015-08-08T07:53:27-04:00

The way I see it, is this is a VOLUNTEER service. If you choose to join a club, it doesn't change things because you don't like it. We're not forcing Christianity on anyone, but don't force God out of the military, we all know how well that worked for schools.

Response by SPC Neil Hood made Aug 8 at 2015 8:46 AM

2015-08-08T08:46:14-04:00

I always say it's easier to respect someone's faith than to get into a discussion about it. As for posters with belief? We spend money with God invoked upon it daily without batting an eye.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Aug 8 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-08-08T13:00:24-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member - Captain; "God" isn't really an issue (since all three of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam only recognize one "God" [and it's the same one for all of them]) but I most definitely DID NOT serve "For RELIGION and Country".

As far as "Political Correctness" is concerned, I spoke my mind as a teenager and I'm still speaking my mind as a septuagenarian.

I do, however, recognize that sometimes the connotations attached to certain words change over time and make the effort never to be unintentionally rude to anyone - no matter how much of an ignorant, uncultured, bigoted jackass they may be.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 9 at 2015 2:00 PM

2015-08-09T14:00:28-04:00

I'm tired of the PC nonsense. We are afraid to offend the few but end up offending the many.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 2:18 PM

2015-08-20T14:18:04-04:00

There is a separation of church and state for a reason. Religion had its chance to run everything and now we call it the Dark Ages. Mixing religion and government is never a good choice. It leads to killing others because they do not believe exactly what you believe.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Aug 21 at 2015 9:09 PM

2015-08-21T21:09:26-04:00

It is interesting to observe the confusion of Christians as they experience intolerance directed at them. The same is true of whites who are reviled by blacks even though they have never discriminated against anyone. You can see the question in their eyes: "I'm tolerant, why aren't they?" Generally, most Christians I have met in my life (more than a few) are very tolerant. However they should direct their attention to their own scriptures wherein they are warned that "The sins of the father..." When I first encountered that concept I was upset. Why would God inflict punishment on children for the sins of the father. It was only later in life that I discovered that this wasn't inflicted on man. It is a simple observation of the truth. In times past Christian churches were extremely intolerant. Think Inquisition as an extreme example. And, yes, what goes around does come around, and the children suffer. The same is true of slavery. I never owned slaves. I never discriminated against blacks. Indeed, I have stood up and shut down bigots when they attempt to vent their discriminatory spleen. Still, I know that there are neighborhoods where I wouldn't be welcome because of my skin color (white... well ruddy actually). Why? Because of slavery and decades of discrimination that followed. In other words, the sins of the fathers... Sadly, there are still some churches spewing intolerance and future generations of Christians will see the plague renewed. Sadly, there are still bigots practicing discrimination against blacks and that plague is likewise renewed. So, when you attempt to have a discussion about tolerance (religious, racial, whatever) keep this warning in mind and maybe we can save some future generation the troubles that we must live with today...

Response by SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD made Aug 27 at 2015 10:22 PM

2015-08-27T22:22:04-04:00

Political Correctness is changing the make up of this great country. Some are offended because of this, and others because of that. I see nothing wrong about the "God and Country" posters. I'll grant you this, that those who would be offended by those posters, would not be offended, by a Bible thumper, if they were caught in a situation, in which the only way out depended on that thumper. I trust God with all my heart, and all my might. Should you be offended by my comments, I will not apologize. Will I defend you? You got that right.

Response by SSG K Johnson made Nov 21 at 2018 12:49 PM

2018-11-21T12:49:31-05:00

Th overopinionated liberals look for a reason. even if it doesn't bother them they feel it is their job to protect the people it may offend. I'm so tired of good shows getting ruined by loosing the main character, or making decent people running for office feel wrong about saying things taken out of context to the extreme. I was once a Chaplain Assistant and our crest states (in Latin) For God and Country. I will always be faithful to that. Liberals are slinging this crap back and forth without thinking. "Hey this may not concern me." You want to fight for others on things that truly matter? they need to take off the diaper and join the military.