'Generic' Comments on NCOER/OER? Why?

2013-12-31T12:49:32-05:00

Thoughts about 'generic' comments in NCOERs/OERs?

I don't think I'm authorized 'pet-peeves' yet because I'm not a Sergeant Major (that's a joke), but nothing screams, "I DON'T CARE ABOUT MY CAREER" more than an NCO looking toward the senior NCO ranks with 'generic' NCOER bullets.

Have you really not done enough in one or more of your evaluated areas to give SPECIFIC/QUANTIFIABLE comments about your or your rated NCO's performance? Or do not know how to put this into writing?

Or, bare with me, you're too lazy to care about you or your rated NCO's career to be specific about the previous year's accomplishments.

Note: I understand and can understand that there may be a 90-day+ change of rater evaluation that incorporates generic bullets.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 12:57 PM

2013-12-31T12:57:08-05:00

I'm right there with you nothing angers me more reading a great evaluation to later read a subpar evaluation from that NCO. Many times I've sat down and counseled senior NCOs on capturing what their junior NCOs did to make them excellent in their NCOERS. Usually the theme is one quantifiable bullet here or there so I ask the Rater to move bullets to combine as a quantifiable excellence in one of the blocks.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 31 at 2013 1:18 PM

2013-12-31T13:18:11-05:00

I'd rather just have 2 bullets than 3 with one of them being generic. I've also done some things that just can't be fully articulated in one sentence. I don't like the 2 line limitation. I understand the need for brevity for board members but some things need to be explained or they will have no idea what you are talking about.

Response by CMC Robert Young made Dec 31 at 2013 1:18 PM

2013-12-31T13:18:27-05:00

It's universal....raters who are too lazy, or not creative enough to write solid justifications for their subordinates. It drives me crazy to see an entire duty section get the same marks on their EERs with the same accompanying bullets.....12 people here who all did exactly the same thing in exactly the same manner at exactly the same time.

I hear that 'pet peeves' will soon be authorized for lower pay grades as part of a new feel good military ;-)

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 10:34 PM

2013-12-31T22:34:27-05:00

I generally agree with the above. Generic bullets that don't feature quantifiable data or are just a fancy array of adjectives are nothing but placeholders on an NCOER.

However, I have also known a few NCOs whose entire NCOER was nothing but that kind of stuff for a very solid reason: They didn't do anything worth mentioning. PT, 9-5, 30 days of leave, and a few times on staff duty. No schools, no civilian education, no leadership position, no projects, no additional duties, no accomplishments. Those NCOs simply existed to fill a slot and provide the bare minimum of supervision and communication in order to make the mission happen. I see no reason to make stuff up or dress up mediocrity as anything but.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2014 1:08 AM

2014-01-01T01:08:00-05:00

I never write a generic bullet for my NCOs. EVER. And kick them back if I'm reviewing them. The only exceptions are maybe the "no drug or alcohol incidents" bullet

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2014 1:08 AM

2014-01-01T01:08:02-05:00

Damn why does this mobile site always double post

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2014 9:26 PM

2014-01-01T21:26:25-05:00

I review almost every NCOER that comes through the battalion. Unfortunately for the rated NCOs, I see A LOT of very bland NCOERs. I also see a lot of inflated Senior Rater numbers too. Remember that a 1/1 is for those rare "Super Soldiers" who excel at EVERYTHING they do and seem to do more awesome stuff than there are hours in the day. A 2/2 means the NCO is above average, but not Super Trooper. A 3/3 means the NCO came in to work, did his/her job, and went home. Nothing exceptional, but nothing negative either. 4/4 and 5/5 are, well, you know-- bad.

Honorable mention to one NCOER I reviewed-- apparently the Rater had nothing when it came to bullet comments, so (if memory serves) one of the bullets was, "... did not have any law enforcement violations on or off duty." I guess that might be valid, as the NCO is an MP.

My pet peeves with NCOERs:
o Spell Check! There is a Spell Check button right on the electronic form

o Using parts of the Soldiers Creed or Creed of the NCO as bullets (Really? That's all you have?)

o Giving an NCO a 2/2 when you noted he got a DUI

o Everyone is a 1/1

o Writing everything you can think of in Block IIId

o Waiting until 7-14 days AFTER the THRU Date to submit the NCOER

However, my biggest complaint is cut & pasted NCOERs. You know, when all your rated NCOs have the exact same bullet comments, right down to the same typos and grammatical errors. It is even worse when these come in at the same time; it's really obvious when I read the same NCOER three times, with just the Part I info changed.

I suggest (as does AR and DA Pam 623-3) that you use the NCOER Counseling Support Form (DA Form 2166-8-1). This way you are fulfilling your obligation as a Rater to counsel your NCO quarterly AND you will have a ready-made NCOER when the THRU Date gets close. You won't have to scramble at the last minute.

Response by SFC Steven Harvey made Jan 1 at 2014 10:33 PM

2014-01-01T22:33:04-05:00

I've seen a lot of Excellences with 1/1 and generic bullets pulled straight off NCOER Help sites. Those NCOER's are going to be highly criticized during the board and it will likely hurt them.

The only time I can see them not being too critical about generic bullets is if it's a 90 day COR where the NCO got a 2/2 with no excellences. Though I have no idea how they would take something like that for a board review, assuming all of your other NCOER's are 1/1's with good bullets.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2014 1:35 AM

2014-01-02T01:35:53-05:00

We have another one to add to the list, since we are now mandated to address support of the SHARP program.

o Single-handedly attended all scheduled SHARP training; stayed awake and did not snicker

I see a large influx of new UVAs INO who want to keep their Leadership blocks strong.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2014 5:02 AM

2014-01-02T05:02:24-05:00

The substandard NCOERs I have seen are almost always due to two reasons. One, no legitimate quarterly counseling done during the rating period resulting in a mad rush to complete a suspense someone else established. Two, lack of knowledge in NCOER, counseling, and/or writing.

Some units have there own pet peeves but I have become alarmed lately at the lack of writing abilities combined with poor planning. For some it is easy to write this important responsibility off and utilize a search engine to do the work for them. Experienced leaders catch them pretty quick, they have seen them before. My fix, every time one of my Soldier's has CQ/SDNCO I look at their counseling packet for the past 90 days. If its a NCO in charge of Soldiers, then I look at his packet and all of his Soldiers packets. It has proven to be useful to me in evaluating methods and offering candid feedback. Leaders and Soldiers take things more serious when you periodically check the small things.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2014 8:47 PM

2014-05-21T20:47:38-04:00

MSG(P) Quick,

I think the main reason I have ever used generic comments is to ensure that there are more than two bullets on the NCOER or OER. It is very hard to write some evaluations specifically in the Reserve Components when a NCO goes to a school and then does not go to the annual training. Well we cannot write about the school if they received a 1059 so you are limited down to 24 days and in reality half of that is mandatory training and random other items. I try to limit it to one generic bullet per block.

The other reason is to convey in a discrete way that they are just like anyone else without writing "Soldier leads like every other E5 that was promoted this year".

I strive though to even turn generic comments into personalized comments. I personally think that all evaluations should be narratives to help paint a picture of the Soldier being evaluated. It is hard to get a full reading on a Soldier in two sentences at a time. Paragraphs help tie things together and paint a better picture in my opinion. So when you become SMA you can adjust the NCOERs (again as I hear they are doing something with them next year).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 11:58 AM

2015-03-14T11:58:06-04:00

I'm with SSG Burns on this. I'd rather have 2 3-line, quantitative and qualitative bullets than 3 condensed bullets that don't accurately describe or full describe that the NCO did.

My pet peeve is that I have to sacrifice a bullet space in the leadership section for a cookie cutter bullet about supporting SHARP and EO. I understand that they are important programs but now we are losing out on having other leadership examples from being recognized on the NCOER if there are more than two examples.

My biggest question is, since when can someone not in the rating scheme and who is not the rater, dictate what we as the raters put as the NCO'S bullets.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 9:53 PM

2015-04-13T21:53:16-04:00

Generic bullets are crap. Why fill a ncoer with them? They do nothing to support a excellence. A success is done by accomplishing your job and daily missions. Do them and you get a not so generic bullet that is easily measurable and quantifiable. Do nothing and get nothing is the way I see it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 12:03 PM

2015-12-15T12:03:56-05:00

I had the misfortune to have to write an NCOER on a Soldier that I had seen exactly ONE time. This Soldier transferred into my section in OCT 14. I was attending phase II ILE in lieu of BA from OCT - MAY. The Soldier was not present for June BA and we did not have BA in July. I met the guy in AUG and gave him his "initial" counseling. Came to BA in SEP and was told that SSG XYZ was due his annual NCOER.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 14 at 2019 8:24 AM

2019-03-14T08:24:41-04:00

I have used these comments a few times. Every time it was with an average to slightly above average NCO, and a unit SOP that REQUIRED three bullets for every block. There just wasn't enough with this NCO to give three honest quantifiable bullets, so the third bullet was generic. But NEVER was the entire thing generic.

My first few NCOERs (like 5 years worth) had a lot of boilerplate. I had raters who refused to counsel me, and my bull-headed self decided I wasn't going to do their job for them - they could write my NCOER on their own like they were paid to do. After getting a number of 1/2 or 2/1 NCOERs with crap generic bullets, I just started writing my own and submitting it to my rater for correction. With one exception, I wrote every one of my NCOERs for my last 10 years in service. Not a single generic bullet on those ones. (I also never rated higher than a 2/2 before my rater got a hold of it, with a 3/2 thrown in for one of them. Of course, AFTER my rater got it, I was always a 1/2 or 2/1 with a couple 1/1s thrown in).