Gay Rights and the Church. How far do gay rights go?

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:01:24 -0500

If you go to a Christian Church and they do not want to do Gay Marriages, should they be forced to? Or should they find a church who believes in the rights of gay? Should churches be mandated to teach acceptance of these rights of at the very least, tolerance?

And should the Texas Mayor have been allowed to subpoena sermons?

Response by MAJ William Guglielmi made Nov 15 at 2014 12:50 AM

MAJ William Guglielmi — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 00:50:15 -0500

Churches should not be forced to perform any marriage that violates their tenets. Neither should they be allowed to 'force' their views on the remainder of society.

Response by Cpl Ray Fernandez made Nov 15 at 2014 12:50 AM

Cpl Ray Fernandez — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 00:50:17 -0500

Believe it or not, the church of the middle ages was more progressive than the modern church. There were actual same sex commitment ceremonies that were carried out by the church.
I think that the government and religion should stay out of the whole marriage mess. A church shouldn't be forced to participate in something that violates their principles, but there will be some that will go against the grain and willing to participate. Eventually the problem will take care of itself as there will be those that will defy doctrine and help those in need.

Beliefs; A study of medieval rituals in same-sex unions raises a question: what were they...

If these words, taken from a manuscript preserved in the Vatican and dating from the year 1147, were for a bride and bridegroom, no one would find them startling: "Send down, most kind Lord, the grace of Thy Holy Spirit upon these Thy servants, whom Thou hast found worthy to be united not by nature but by faith and a holy spirit. Grant unto them Thy grace to love each other in joy without injury or hatred all the days of their lives."

Response by SPC Slikk Nievez made Nov 15 at 2014 8:55 AM

SPC Slikk Nievez — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 08:55:48 -0500

I think it is completely wrong to allow open gay rights in any of the religious churches. In this country we have freedom of religion in and every religion shuns homosexuality. To alter or demand an alteration of the way one practices or believes is a violation of our freedoms. They should start there own religion and rewrite one of the many religious books that have been rewritten to got the needs of kind and governments through out time. Religion is ultimately a scam and scare tactic but we have our rights and freedoms to be allowed to follow it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2014 11:01 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:01:49 -0500

The Govt shouldn't be forcing churches to do anything...

Response by SFC Melker Johansson made Nov 15 at 2014 12:13 PM

SFC Melker Johansson — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:13:25 -0500

How many Christian churches are forced to perform interracial marriages against their will?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2014 12:58 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:58:52 -0500

"'Freedom of religion means freedom to hold an opinion or belief, but not to take action in violation of social duties or subversive to good order,' Chief Justice Waite wrote in Reynolds v. United States (1878). The U.S. Court found that while laws cannot interfere with religious belief and opinions, laws can be made to regulate some religious practices, e.g., human sacrifices, and the Hindu practice of suttee. The Court stated that to rule otherwise, 'would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect permit every citizen to become a law unto himself. Government would exist only in name under such circumstances.'"

Discussions like this one raised by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member have been dancing around this court decision ever since. Should churches be mandated to teach acceptance and tolerance? The answer to that depends on your interpretation of the court precedent quoted above.

Do I think that christian churches should be forced to officiate homosexual weddings? No, it's my personal belief that it should be their right to refuse (that said my stance on the federal government denying homosexual marriages is completely different). My personal beliefs aside the federal government is completely within its power to force this upon a religious institution if it's judicially determined that said institution violates social duties or is subversive to good order, which arguably disenfranchising an entire demographic could be construed as.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2014 2:49 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:49:39 -0500

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member, I believe that a Christian church should not be forced to perform gay marriages. If I were in that position (gay and wanting to marry), I would want to go to a church that would welcome me. I don't think churches should be forced to perform or allow gay marriages in their facilities. Just my personal opinion. No offense to anyone.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2014 9:17 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:17:32 -0500

Every religion should teach tolerance, but no, it would be an abuse of power to force churches to perform marriages that go against their beliefs, however archaic they may be.

If I remember the Texas church subpoena story correctly, it was to look for political drivel, which if present should force the churches to lose their tax exempt status, so for that I will say yes, keep any/all god(s) out of politics and politics out of god(s).

Response by SGT Mike Rudd made Jun 4 at 2015 8:17 PM

SGT Mike Rudd — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 20:17:22 -0400

They should find a church that shares their life choices it's not fair to make all faiths abide by their beliefs maybe Muslim will listen to them. I just don't like being shoved down my throat

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Jun 4 at 2015 8:33 PM

SPC Nathan Freeman — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 20:33:00 -0400

Churches have rights too. Freedom of religion should allow them to deny weddings to homosexuals. They can go to a judge.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jun 4 at 2015 8:43 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 20:43:16 -0400

Churches are tax free shelters so yeah, until they're paying taxes they are not private and thus subject to gov sight, don't want to marry gay people, then pay taxes like private institutions.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jun 4 at 2015 8:44 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 20:44:56 -0400

People talk about liberal views ... and how unfair liberals are about gay marriage, remember without liberal progressiveness blacks would still be slaves and women wouldn't be able to vote and 10 yr olds would still be working in factories.

Response by MSgt Brian Welch made Jun 4 at 2015 9:02 PM

MSgt Brian Welch — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:02:41 -0400

In my upbringing in the Catholic Church I understood it as "hate the sin but not the sinner". Now, don't pounce everyone, I'M not stating being gay is a sin, but for those that believe it is, using the philosopy of "hate the sin-not the sinner" makes it clear the church would/should be accepting of the member in the church (tolerance) but not necessarily be willing to further what they see as a sin by performing gay marriages. I believe that's pretty fair... you don't have a right to the church, either you accept it in whole or in part, but they don't have to bend to your need. If you don't like any given church and belief, find one that suits your need. But I'd ask, if a person looks for a church that suits their specific need is it a church they are seeking or a support group. Because, in my mind a religion is founded on a set of beliefs and they just aren't changed by daily whims or fads. They aren't founded to make us feel good about whatever we choose to do. They are based on a foundation of beliefs that either we conform to or don't.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 9:53 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:53:02 -0400

It's all about freedom of religion. if a church doesn't want to marry a gay couple or they want to make sermons against gay marriage they should be allowed to. Also the same way, if a church wants to marry a gay couple or make sermons that go with gays then they should be allowed to. It's up the the congregation and the pastor to decide these things not the state.