From DOR E-6, is it (18 or 24) months to complete (ALC PH1 or all phases of ALC) to retain rank?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 09:46:58 -0500

Just to elaborate on the title question, I've a tight winter/spring/summer coming for my civilian job with a terminal move and I'm trying to coordinate everything with the transition into being able to leave comfortably into ALC.

I have heard both 18 and 24 months from DOR from my previous and now current Training NCO(s) and it's personal curiosity that's questioning whether its a requirement for PH1 or total completion.

Appreciate any and all help in advance, just trying to get out in front of this.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Nov 13 at 2015 9:50 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 09:50:26 -0500

Good question I wish I knew the answer too, been out since 2006 so I don't have a clue.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2015 10:23 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:23:04 -0500

I believe it's 24 months, but we should defer to an SME like SFC Tim Springman

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made Nov 13 at 2015 10:28 AM

SFC Christopher Perry — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:28:16 -0500

I hate to say it, but I know folks who sat at SSG for a whole lot of years without having attended any phase of ALC.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2015 10:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:34:58 -0500

As an aside, I've finished skimming through Army Regulation 600–8–19 dated 02022015 and could find no mention of rank retention regulations pertaining to a time window upon DOR to E-6 for ALC. It's possible that I missed it but 2/3rd of an hour is glaring at me for coming up empty handed.

Is there another location I could check for information pertaining to this that wouldn't have been included in this?

Response by SSG Thomas Gallegos made Nov 13 at 2015 12:47 PM

SSG Thomas Gallegos — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:47:09 -0500

My question is as your question brings out you are in a Reserve component. Are there different standards for Reserve components from AD?

Response by MSG Michael Shannon made Nov 13 at 2015 7:33 PM

MSG Michael Shannon — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 19:33:12 -0500

This is an ever changing time frame that will be in multiple milpers and alaracts. The original guidelines from YEARS ago was 12 months however with the number of promotions and funding in the reserve that number has been moved around. My advice to you is to get it done ASAP or you will fall behind your peers as you are not competitive. As a side note regarding ncoes/ pme here are some pitfalls to avoid. Starting ALS/SSD2 and finishing it should reset the clock (for a tpu) Don't go more then 2 years between applying or fighting for a seat. This will put you into a crunch time situation... 4 years without ncoes is grounds for qrb and anything can happen, especially if a female waits and then gets pregnant. Put in a short notice request if possible. Stay up on pt and ht and wt, this will keep you in the jump seat for any school. Choose your side schools wisely, a 42a doesn't need airborn school (unless in a specialty unit). They need complimentary schools like a security course or sharp.

Good luck!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2015 2:57 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Nov 2015 02:57:35 -0500

SSG Neely,

I believe there was an ALARACT message that came out with the specifications. However, I want to say it is 24months for the RA and 36months for the USAR. The easiest way for you to fix if you are ready, is to contact your branch manager. 1 ask if there is a back-log and 2 make sure that you're on it. Just read the updated ALARACT that you can get from either your nearest recruiting station or Reserve Component unit, whichever is closest.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2015 8:11 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Nov 2015 08:11:25 -0500

With the implementation of the new S.T.E.P. program starting on 1 Jan 2016, if you are an E5 selected for an E6 position, you will not be promoted until you complete your required NCOES, but if you have already been promoted I assume this is not the case for your situation.

E6's have 24 months time in grade required before they are eligible to compete for E7. You will also need to have 9 years time in service as well to compete. I'm not sure how some of these requirements are implemented on Active Duty, but I have seen many Soldiers not attend school for many years and they are not reduced, they are simply not allowed to compete for any advancement.

I hope this helps!

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Nov 16 at 2015 1:01 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 13:01:50 -0500

1–27. Noncommissioned Officers Education System requirement for promotion and conditional
promotion
a. The Noncommissioned Officers Education System (NCOES) requirements for promotion. Soldier must be—
(1) A Warrior Leader Course (WLC) graduate or equivalent for recommendation to SSG (see para 1–27d).
(2) A Basic Noncommissioned Officer Course (BNCOC) graduate for consideration eligibility to SFC (see 1–27c).
(3) An Advanced Noncommissioned Officer Course (ANCOC) graduate for consideration eligibility to MSG (see
1–27c).
(4) A United States Army Sergeant Major Course (USASMC) graduate for promotion to SGM (see para 1–27b).
b. Conditional promotion to SGM.
(1) Soldiers selected for promotion to SGM who are nongraduates of the SMC will be conditionally promoted.
(2) Soldiers who fail to successfully complete, fail to remain eligible to be scheduled for or attend, who are denied
enrollment in, or who do not attend their scheduled NCOES class (through fault of the Soldier) will be administratively
reduced or removed from the promotion list. The effective date of administrative reduction is the date of the action that
caused the Soldier to be ineligible to retain the promotion. The DOR will be the previous DOR held at the reduced
grade.
(3) Conditionally promoted SGMs who have been reduced or removed from the promotion list as a result of failure
to meet the NCOES requirement are ineligible for future promotion consideration.
(4) For conditionally promoted SGMs the following statement will be entered on the promotion instrument: “Soldier
has not met the NCOES requirement and is promoted conditionally. If the Soldier fails to successfully complete, fails
to remain eligible for, is denied enrollment in, or does not attend his/her scheduled NCOES class (through fault of the
Soldier), then the Soldier will be administratively reduced.”
c. BNCOC and ANCOC. Active Army, ARNG, and USAR AGR Soldiers otherwise eligible for consideration but
lacking the prerequisite level of NCOES as a direct result of operational deployment conflicts, or inability of the Army
to schedule the course, will be granted a waiver of the NCOES requirement by the DCS, G–1 (DAPE–MPE–PD). The
authority to grant waivers to USAR Soldiers is delegated to the U.S. Army Reserve Command, 7th ARCOM, 9th RRC,
U.S. Army Civil Affairs Psychological Operations Command for all TPU Soldiers, and HRC–St. Louis (AHRC–ZA–S/
AHRC–MLS–B) for all IRR and drilling IMA Soldiers. CNGB (NGB–ARH–S) is the waiver approval authority for
ARNG. Soldiers selected for promotion to SFC and MSG, whose eligibility resulted from a waiver of the requisite
NCOES, will have their promotion held in abeyance until the requisite course is completed.
d. Warrior Leader Course (WLC).
(1) Soldiers deployed or assigned to Warrior Transition Units (WTU) (Medical Hold or Medical Hold-Over Units)
whose medical condition was incurred in direct support of GWOT operations and who are otherwise eligible for
recommendation may be recommended and promoted to SSG without the WLC with a waiver. The waiver approval
authorities are the Cdr, HRC; the Cdr, USARC; or the DARNG, as appropriate. These three authorities may further
delegate this waiver approval authority, in writing, to colonel-level division chiefs under their respective control.
AR 600–8–19 • 20 March 2008
Soldiers subsequently integrated on to the SSG list or selected and promoted to SSG, with a waiver, must complete the
WLC within 270 days of their redeployment (date returns to home station) or release (to duty) from the WTU. Failure
to successfully complete the WLC within 270 days of redeployment or release from the WTU will result in
administrative reduction to SGT (if applicable) or removal from the SSG list, unless the timeframe is extended by the
DCS, G-1 (DAPE-MPE-PD). Promotion instrument will include the following statement: “Soldier is promoted contingent
on completing the Warrior Leader Course. If the Soldier fails to successfully complete, fails to remain eligible for,
is denied enrollment in, or does not attend his/her scheduled WLC class (through fault of the Soldier) within 270 days
of redeployment or release from the WTU, as applicable, then the Soldier will be administratively reduced and must
recompete for promotion.”
(2) As an exception to the 270 day rule, Soldiers assigned to a WTU (previously granted WLC waivers) promoted
to SSG (contingent on completion of WLC) who are unable to attend the WLC solely on the basis of medical
disqualification and are subsequently medically retired or separated will not be administratively reduced for failure to
attend WLC.
(3) The DCS, G-1(DAPE-MPE-PD) is the approval authority for all exceptions to the established policy and all
subsequent extensions of previously approved waivers.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Nov 16 at 2015 1:29 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 13:29:42 -0500

There has been a change and here it is Effective 2 March 2015
1-28. Noncommissioned Officer Education System requirement for promotion and conditional promotion
Development of our NCO Corps is an essential element of our institutional success. The policies set forth in this regulation support the accumulation of training, education, and experiences while encouraging lifelong learning in an effort to develop NCO leader competencies. The intent is to achieve a synchronized relationship between NCOES and promotions that is deliberate, continuous, sequential, and progressive in order to produce competent, confident, and versatile leaders for a 21st Century Army. This paragraph incorporates AD 2013-15.

a. Soldiers must complete the following professional military education courses as follows:

(1) All RA and USAR CPLs or SPCs must complete SSD level 1 before attaining eligibility for recommendation to SGT.

(2) All ARNG or ARNGUS CPL or SPC must complete SSD level 1 before attaining eligibility for promotion against a valid promotion vacancy.

(3) All SGTs (all components) must be graduates of the Warrior Leader Course (WLC) before attaining eligibility for recommendation to SSG. Effective 1 February 2015, SGTs (all components) must complete SSD level 2 before attaining eligibility for recommendation to SSG.

(4) All SSG (all components) must complete SSD level 3 before attaining eligibility for promotion consideration to SFC.

(5) All SFC (all components) must complete SSD level 4 before attaining eligibility for promotion consideration to MSG.

(6) Graduation of the U.S. Army Sergeants Major Course (USASMC) is a promotion requirement to SGM (see para c ).

b. The DCS, G-1 may announce Armywide suspension to the professional military education requirements outlined in this paragraph when circumstances (such as operational environment, funding and training capacity) warrant.

c. Conditional promotion to SGM.

(1) Soldiers selected for promotion to SGM who are not graduates of the USASMC will be conditionally promoted; provided they are making satisfactory progress in the nonresident course (as determined by the Commandant, U.S. Army Sergeants Major Academy (USASMA)). ARNG Soldiers must have confirmation of enrollment prior to execution of the promotion order.

(2) Soldiers who fail to successfully complete, fail to remain eligible to be scheduled for or attend, who are denied enrollment in, or who do not attend their scheduled Sergeants Major Course (through fault of the Soldier), will be administratively reduced or removed from the promotion list. The effective date of administrative reduction is the date of the action that caused the Soldier to be ineligible to retain the promotion. The DOR will be the previous DOR held at the reduced grade.

(3) Conditionally promoted SGMs who have been reduced or removed from the promotion list as a result of failure to meet the NCOES requirement are ineligible for future promotion consideration.

(4) For conditionally promoted SGMs the following statement will be entered on the promotion instrument: "Soldier has not met the NCOES requirement and is promoted conditionally. If the Soldier fails to successfully complete, fails to remain eligible for, is denied enrollment in, or does not attend his or her scheduled NCOES class (through fault of the Soldier), then the Soldier will be administratively reduced."

d. There are no military education waivers to attain eligibility for promotion consideration or pin-on.

e. Completion of SSD level 1 is a promotion pin-on requirement for Soldiers who are promoted to SGT as a result of an approved battlefield promotion. For Soldiers who are not SSD level1 graduates, the battlefield promotion is conditional. Soldiers must complete SSD level 1 within 270 days from redeployment (RA) or REFRAD (RC), as applicable, or the Soldier will be reduced to their former rank.

f. Completion of the appropriate level of SSD is a promotion pin-on requirement for U.S. Army Recruiting Command (USAREC) merit promotions. For Soldiers who are not graduates of the appropriate level of SSD, the merit promotion is conditional. The appropriate level of SSD must be completed within 270 days of the merit promotion or the Soldier will be reduced to their former rank

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Nov 17 at 2015 5:56 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 05:56:05 -0500

I think that it is up to the persons superiors, and when the person can do the training.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2015 5:58 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 05:58:52 -0500

i recall in a power point we were given by state it stated that the army step program required E6 24 months to complete ALC or they will be reduced. then i did some research
https://www.hrc.army.mil/Site/Assets/Directorate/tagd/STEP_Army_Directive_2015-13_Requirements_for_NCO_Promotions.pdf
b. Army National Guard/Army National Guard of the United States Enlisted
Soldiers. Beginning with the fiscal year 2016 promotion cycle, enlisted Soldiers on a
promotion list who have completed their structured self-development requirements will
be selected and assigned to higher grade vacancies. Soldiers selected for higher grade
vacancies without the NCOES requirement will have 24 months to complete the level of
NCOES required for promotion pin-on or will be removed from the position. This period
is extended to 36 months when the NCO ES course consists of three or more phases.
Promotion pin-on requires completion of the Warrior Leader Course for sergeants,
Advanced Leader Course for staff sergeants and Senior Leader Course for sergeants
first class.

It appaires that only applies to if u get the call from state to get promoted. if u are the rank before the change it does not apply. I have herd in the past that if u dont got to NCOES within a cretin range that u can loose the rank, but never seen it (myself took 7 years to go to wlc) but as far as i can tell there is no rule changes in the step program thats in regards to NCOES with people already in the rank.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2015 6:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 06:35:47 -0500

That depends on your MOS requirements, other MOS' s have different length's to ALC course's

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2015 7:45 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 07:45:49 -0500

The new reg states that you have 24 months. What is your MOS? I am the course manager for 11B ALC and I have a course in April in NJ if you would like to attend.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2015 11:48 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:48:55 -0500

You have 2 years starting Jan 1st 2016 to "be reserved" for ALC. If your seat is reserved but outside of the 2 year window, there will be a waiver process to file and you will NOT loose your rank. I'd talk with whoever your training NCO is to reserve a seat ASAP. I've had mine reserved 1 year now, and it was reserved while I was a E5. So you should be okay as long as a seat is reserved for you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2015 4:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 16:05:42 -0500

I just had a CSM call at my unit this weekend about this subject. There was a big change put out regarding required NCOES. All the info you need is at https://www.hrc.army.mil

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2015 6:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 18:08:15 -0500

It should say right in your orders. My orders state that I must be E-6 promotable within one year (12 months). If not they can recoup the earned income and reduce me in rank. Which means at the rank of E-6 your ERB must be up-to-date, Have your DA photo within the first 6 months, review and submit everything for your iperms, complete ALC (DL) phase if your MOS requires it, all of your ALC residency phases, and last complete SSD 3 and it's corresponding courses.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2015 1:06 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Nov 2015 13:06:48 -0500

MILPER MSG 15-264 states you have 18 months!