Fraternity closed due to blatant disrespect of veterans. Was the school right/wrong?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:04:20 -0400

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/29/university-florida-closes-fraternity-over-inappropriate-behavior/

University of Florida closes frat house due to the most disgusting display of disrespect to fellow Veterans. Was this the right choice? Were they just practicing their "freedom of speech?" (That those Veterans fought for them to have.)

Univ. of Florida closes fraternity over abuse of wounded vets

The University of Florida closed a fraternity Tuesday amid allegations that its members hurled drunken insults and spat at a group of disabled veterans at a Panama City Beach resort.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Apr 29 at 2015 8:09 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:09:20 -0400

I think the more important question is: Was the university wrong?

As long as the University is not legally in the wrong for the decision they made we can debate the gray area of their decisions beyond that. Making a not wrong and popular decision might be the best choice.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 8:09 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:09:33 -0400

Amen, SGT Private RallyPoint Member. I read about this story right here on RallyPoint. Watched a video, in fact. Now the school has closed the fraternity? Perfect. They need to be taught a lesson, and this is just the ticket.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Apr 29 at 2015 8:19 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:19:11 -0400

Personally, I don't think the University needed to shut down the frat. However, U of Florida, like ALL public universities, receives a lot of Federal funding. Also, they have some tuition dollars at stake via their hosted ROTC programs. How many students are attending with the GI Bill? How many veterans are contemplating sending their children to college? Recalling the relationship my alma mater had with the Greeks, I'm guessing there were likely other issues at hand... say, like money. U of Florida would rather pay to defend a case brought by some snot-nosed Greeks vice be tried in the Court of Public Opinion --especially were some Wounded Warriors (and a nation of vets) are involved. May not have been the "right" decision. But, it was certainly more cost effective than inaction.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 8:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:24:44 -0400

They were already under a separate investigation then this. Yes it was the right thing to do.

My question is what's next? The National president of said Frat said something about a "sit down" with Vets for open dialogue?!?!? Will they follow thru??

Response by SPC Carl K. made Apr 29 at 2015 8:38 PM

SPC Carl K. — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:38:53 -0400

I personally never understood the true need for a frat or a sorority. In all honesty, I don't care. In this particular case, I feel the school did the right thing. As for the 'sit-down' with veterans, I think it is too little, too late. The frat went too far.

Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made Apr 29 at 2015 8:44 PM

MSgt Robert Pellam — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 20:44:26 -0400

Normally I like to try and see everything from both angles. I play devils advocate and just encourage thinking and dialog.

This time no. The frat brothers hurled not only insults but bodily fluid, and I even read in another report, furniture pieces at Vets. This is assault and no one has the right to do this to anyone.

Why shut the whole frat down? Simple. They as a group were at this location, they as a group were parting. The Frat, As a group, failed to act in a responsible manner by policing its own. They showed no responsibility as a fraternity, or as even humans.

Someone might say. Well what if that was a military members. For the military members the punishment would be swift and sever. No doubt their supervisors and their commanders would be answering for why their members were at a function when they represented the military and acting like criminals?. We police our own to a point where we have our own UCMJ and rules.

I believe the University made the right call in removing the Frat.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 29 at 2015 9:10 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 21:10:24 -0400

Shut them down for a year. They need to be made an example of. The irony is the frat boys and their date are supposed to be scholars and people who seek enlightenment and knowledge.

Response by SGT Michael Touchet made Apr 29 at 2015 11:44 PM

SGT Michael Touchet — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 23:44:47 -0400

I think they were absolutely right in shutting that fraternity down.

Response by Spc 1 J W. made Apr 30 at 2015 12:01 AM

Spc 1 J W. — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 00:01:52 -0400

I don't get the whole Greek life thing. I know that are fraternities and sororities that do a lot of charitable work. It seems as though there is too much bad stuff happening.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 30 at 2015 2:19 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 02:19:59 -0400

Looking at it from a different news source, it looks like the fraternity has been up to no good for awhile now and the disrespecting of veterans was the last straw. If it was just the disrespect, then no it should not have been shut down, but looks like the fraternity has other ethical and legal issues.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/28/university-of-florida-frat-veterans_n_7164668.html

University Of Florida Frat Shut Down For Harassing Military Veterans

GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) -- The University of Florida closed a fraternity Tuesday after allegations that its members hurled drunken insults and spat at a group of disabled military veterans at a Panama

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 5:21 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:21:26 -0400

Speaking as a frater (thank God from a different fraternity) If the fraternity exspeled there members i dont think think the whole frat should be punished unless the whole chapter acted as one. Im ashamed to call these fools greeks though.

Response by SFC Derek Ashman made Apr 30 at 2015 6:02 AM

SFC Derek Ashman — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 06:02:58 -0400

This frat was already in trouble for other misconduct. This was just another fuel to the fire. So the school decided it had enough of its problems. I was an ROTC instructor at this university and some the frats just do dumb stuff. Also the VP of the school is a retired army 3 star when I was there so I am sure he wasn't taking to kind of what these kids did.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Apr 30 at 2015 9:05 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:05:42 -0400

My take was that they shoiuld be given a choice between expulsion from school, and doing community service work volunteering at the nearest VA facility so that they can see the sacrifices that were made by the men and women they spat upon. I would suggest 20 hours a week for the time they are enrolled in school. Figure 4 years times 36 weeks times 20 hours that is a maximum of 2,880 hours of time spent helping veterans. Additionally, between classess, homework, studying, and volunteering they do not have the time to get so obnoxiously drunk that spitting on American Service Folk seems like a good idea.

This is a really sad story for me because my wife is alumni of UF. She loves her Alma Mater. This behavior sickens her on two levels first because of the level of disrespect shown to our veterans. The second would be the black eye that it gives her university.

That is the whole crux of the matter. These idiots not only showed no respect for those who defend their right to act like drunken assholes, but they also brought dishonor on themselves, their families, their fraternity, and their university. Maybe they should have just stayed home.

Response by SPC Fred Krauer made Apr 30 at 2015 9:33 AM

SPC Fred Krauer — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:33:48 -0400

They had to take action to save face. Those students forced their hand. The school had to distance themselves from the backlash.

Response by SSG Greg Rivera made Apr 30 at 2015 11:09 AM

SSG Greg Rivera — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:09:16 -0400

I agree with the decision to close the "Frat". It was assault and not freedom of speech.

Response by MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM made Apr 30 at 2015 12:51 PM

MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:51:19 -0400

They were absolutely correct. Set an example. There are respectful ways to protest, if warranted.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 1:16 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:16:19 -0400

I wish the national fraternity had revoked the charter of that chapter.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 1:49 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:49:47 -0400

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdRhYFftjCs

This is what I imagine...
This is to lighten the mood.

Neighbors Movie CLIP - Complain To the Dean (2014) - Lisa Kudrow, Rose Bryne Comedy HD

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Response by LTC John Shaw made Apr 30 at 2015 1:56 PM

LTC John Shaw — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 13:56:48 -0400

School was right, National and local Fraternity was wrong. Even if the fraternity expelled the members they need to crack down to send a message. I had a similar life experience and my Fraternity was kicked off campus and had to reapply for Charter. I did not the process at the time, but because Louisville took a hard stance against us, we cleared out the bad members and started with a fresh group.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 4:00 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 16:00:45 -0400

Too extreme. Discipline the kids involved, but the entire Frat? No. That sends the wrong message. That would be like punishing the entire service just because a few SMs got in trouble off-post.

The frat was also taking very responsible measures to deal with it. The school just jumped the gun.

We, as an entire society, have become punishment extremists. We want people fired NOW, arrested NOW, death penalty NOW...for minor things. They might be cruel and disgusting things...but in the end, they are usually minor.

Remember the uproar recently against the principal that sent the military brat home from school because his high and tight haircut was interpreted to be out of school policy? People wanted her head on a platter.

The punishment needs to fit the crime, and in most cases it could be a suspension, or community volunteering. The frat kids that spit on these vets should be forced to spend their next 20 Saturdays at the nearest VA hospital, or help set up the American Legion or VFW monthly meetings. Exposure leads to education, and education leads to REAL understanding. Not forced apologies, and definitely not extreme measures.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Apr 30 at 2015 5:21 PM

SGT Jeremiah B. — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:21:31 -0400

Sure, if it had just been some insults, I guess we could discuss free speech issues. Alas, it was more than that. It was assault. Even if it hadn't been wounded vets, the school would have been right to shut down the frat. The wounded vets part just makes it worse as they belong to a class we typically consider worthy of respect.

Response by TSgt Christopher D. made May 1 at 2015 1:17 PM

TSgt Christopher D. — Fri, 01 May 2015 13:17:36 -0400

Probably won't be a popular remark, but free speech is protected by the 1st Amendment to the Constitution; the same Constitution we all swore to uphold and defend. This protection wasn't for uncontroversial speech/displays, it was made precisely for this type of speech.

As the University of Florida is a public institution, it seems it should protect speech in accordance with the Constitution. None of us have to, or even should like such a vile display, but we needn't limit such speech or intervene. Backlash could, and should reduce the number of applicants to that fraternity. Such a response would be apropos, would it not?

I have seen troubling articles and videos of people (civilians, active duty, vets and retirees) going drill sergeant on protestors, anti-war folks and the like. We did not swear to protect just the free speech we like and agree with. Again, it doesn't mean we should like, praise or support it, but it's antithetical to our oaths to attempt to suppress it.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Oct 13 at 2015 1:53 AM

SGT Michael Glenn — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 01:53:52 -0400

Police them up, put them on a bus to Benning, run their communistic ass's through Basic and AIT, throw then into the belly of the 1st thing heading to the middle east, drag their ass's out into a heavily occupied zone and tell em that they are running point. Make them realize while they choose to hide behind books, real men and women are risking their lives so these wussies can live it up with parties and hide behind books...