Posted on Mar 19, 2014
Forced Participation (Why do we force people to participate in Dining Outs, Military Balls, etc.?)
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Why do we have this practice of forcing people to participate in Dining Outs, and Military Balls? If someone knows they have other things to do, don't want to pay for a ticket, or have the courage to say they don't like wearing the dress uniform. Why do we force them to be labor, or find other avenues to force people to be somewhere that always comes down the pipeline as an optional event?<div><br><div>I would like some insight not only for myself, but for other junior personnel who might want to know the same.</div></div>
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 78
People seem to keep saying over and over how selfish the new generation is. They seem to forget that these people joined at a time of endless conflict, with endless deployments, extensions, and constant talk of cutting pay and benefits, to serve their country.
Maybe part of the problem is that we do not attempt any sort of work-life balance, and criticize those who want to spend some kind of time with their families instead of their commands as selfish. Maybe the Service Balls, Dining Outs, and Christmas Parties were great for bonding before 9-11 and the "Forever War" of GWOT/OCO/whatever we're calling it now...but we are now asking more of our soldiers, while cutting their pay, benefits, training and equipment budgets, and removing their fellow service members from the fight through RIFs and other involuntary separation measures.
Maybe, just maybe, these younger soldiers, who have known nothing but a decade of deploying, training for the next deployment, then deploying again, all while being told how selfish they are for not volunteering enough or attending enough unit functions, are just burned out and don't feel the need to spend yet another evening at work, even if it is disguised as a party.
Maybe part of the problem is that we do not attempt any sort of work-life balance, and criticize those who want to spend some kind of time with their families instead of their commands as selfish. Maybe the Service Balls, Dining Outs, and Christmas Parties were great for bonding before 9-11 and the "Forever War" of GWOT/OCO/whatever we're calling it now...but we are now asking more of our soldiers, while cutting their pay, benefits, training and equipment budgets, and removing their fellow service members from the fight through RIFs and other involuntary separation measures.
Maybe, just maybe, these younger soldiers, who have known nothing but a decade of deploying, training for the next deployment, then deploying again, all while being told how selfish they are for not volunteering enough or attending enough unit functions, are just burned out and don't feel the need to spend yet another evening at work, even if it is disguised as a party.
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Lt Col (Join to see)
SFC Erin Barnett - Because they don't do that through the multiple training exercises, deployments, TDYs, commanders calls, etc? What are you going to say to someone at a Christmas party in Mess Dress that you wouldn't say to them in the unit?
Honestly, the most connected I felt to any of my units was when I was invited to informal, non-mandatory gatherings by other people in the unit. These parties just felt like extending work into the weekend.
Honestly, the most connected I felt to any of my units was when I was invited to informal, non-mandatory gatherings by other people in the unit. These parties just felt like extending work into the weekend.
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SGT John Fielden
JFTR:
I appreciate your position, but
I have 18 active years, and 14 deployments from 1985-2010.
All my military career was deployments or getting ready for deployments.
So I miss you point about deploying more "post 9/11".
I appreciate your position, but
I have 18 active years, and 14 deployments from 1985-2010.
All my military career was deployments or getting ready for deployments.
So I miss you point about deploying more "post 9/11".
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CW4 (Join to see)
SFC Erin Barnett so because you had poor leadership growing up in the military every junior soldier who follows you should have to do the same. This inability to change and under the excuse of I did it is exactly why we as an army struggle to keep our finest. It has been a while since I have read such a poor answer from a senior NCO but again I never ceases to be amazed by poor leaders. It is unfortunate! Lt Col (Join to see) an outstanding answer and probably some very accurate I sight to a generation that has given more than many before it!
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TRADITION! Â These events are a part of our military's tradition...if we do not participate, traditions will eventually go by the wayside.
Seems our next generation of leaders are displaying a selfish 'sense of self' and not adapting to our military traditions. Â Why do they serve then?
Having "other things to do", "don't want to pay for a ticket", or "they don't like wearing the dress uniform" are selfish excuses and are NOT inline with the Army Values.
That being said...
Our leaders need to encourage a sense of esprit-de-corps and educate our Soldiers on the importance of our traditions and the importance for taking an active role in maintaining these traditions by attending these events.
Seems our next generation of leaders are displaying a selfish 'sense of self' and not adapting to our military traditions. Â Why do they serve then?
Having "other things to do", "don't want to pay for a ticket", or "they don't like wearing the dress uniform" are selfish excuses and are NOT inline with the Army Values.
That being said...
Our leaders need to encourage a sense of esprit-de-corps and educate our Soldiers on the importance of our traditions and the importance for taking an active role in maintaining these traditions by attending these events.
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SFC James Welch
So many are just here for the beer. They joined to pay for College. They are not and never will be Professional Soldiers! It’s a calling, not a job!LTC (Join to see)
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SGT (Join to see)
I joined to serve my country not to go to a ball, calling someone selfish because they dont want go to a ball is kinda selfish in itself, forcing someone to pay for a ticket to a ball is against regulation if it’s mandatory then its provided thats why soldiers dont pay for their initial issue unless they lose it so if it is a requirement of the army then its provided at the cost to the government another example is if you wanna move up civilian ed is a big thing thats why soldiers get up to 4000 of TA a year that unless they fail the course they dont have to repay. This is why good soldiers and leaders leave the army
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SPC Eileen Keller
SFC James Welch - Slow down - regardless of their reasons for joining they volunteered, and have to serve out their contract. The flip side is while in I think they should observe the military traditions there are solid reasons for most of them. However, the best tradition is having each other's backs and that includes not throwing them under the proverbial bus when you don't like their reason for joining, not wanting to attend, etc. You are in a position to teach and inspire them...I know you can rise to the challenge.
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<p>SPC Smith. As with the majority of the responses below it is about tradition. That said, my exposure started in Berlin in the late 80s/early 90s. My NCO and Officer chains made it clear that if you were E4 and below it was optional (and went out of their way to reinforce it). When I went to PLDC we had a gentleman come in and talk to us (A retired SFC, I believe, who lived in Germany and did something at 7A NCOA) - he said that once you cross the threshold of your first enlistment the Army became more than a quick pay-off for college - you agreed to embrace traditions that go back even beyond the formation of the US. Wearing blues is no different then going to a dinner in a suit (as I do nowadays). If you are going to "be" a part of an organization you need to understand the culture, history, and camaraderie. Many people that I met at functions are still friends & mentors to this day.<br><br>Since the ASU only requires the addition of a bow tie the question of not liking the dress uniform is a moot point. Even in the day, you didn't have to get blues - you could wear a white shirt/bow tie with the Class 'A' uniform.<br><br>I disagree with making functions mandatory for junior enlisted. It puts pressure on someone who may not care (and in some cases does care but cannot afford it). As for using Soldiers as labor, it is a military function and sometimes you just have to embrace the suck and make it fun. I was Color Guard and did a couple of other odd stints at Dining In/Out as an E1-E3 and I got free food out of the deal and my 1SG made sure we didn't pay for a drink after the retiring of the colors. A pig with lipstick is still a pig but it's easier to look at. Sometimes it just sucks to be joe and if it's not the life for you then ETS and go on to other things. If my first 2-3 years in the Army were my roadmap for the future I'd have gotten out and never looked back. Some great leaders brought me to where I am at now and I do not regret a single day in uniform.</p><p><br></p><p>If you are someone looking to put in more than one enlistment I highly recommend attending. Not necessarily for face time (although it doesn't hurt in spite of what anyone says to the contrary), but for the time to share - you learn a lot about your leaders when you are in a semi-social setting. People you thought were stuck up jerks turn out to be pretty decent people. Most of the spouses I met were more excited about it than we were so in a sense this is about them as well.<br><br><br></p>
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MSG (Join to see)
I started going as a young Sergeant. Have spent more money much less wisely. Sure, there a many a peacock strutting around but generally its just a good time with my old pals. Always had a great time and yes, the wife certainly likes getting dolled up.
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