Forced Participation in Christmas celebrations: What would you do?

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 10:58:26 -0500

From a group for NCOs and former NCOs....

I am currently on a tour in XXXXXX, a newly assigned squad leader to a group of disgruntled soldiers who have been here 7 months. To help morale and esprit de corps, the company has thrown a massive Christmas party, decked to the nines with stockings Christmas everything.

The problem is, two of my Soldiers are not Christian in faith, one is a devout Muslim who does not celebrate Christmas. She informed her previous leadership that she does not celebrate and they forced her to participate in writing her name on a stocking and attend every Christmas party. The command team has refused to call it a holiday party, and has written Christmas on everything from the schedule to the walls. I heard from another NCO that she could be contemplating an EO complaint from the issue.

I researched a little about the Muslim faith and found that I would be upset if I were in her shoes too. I want to talk to her, but I am not Muslim and do not want to offend her. I would refer her to a chaplain, but the camp does not have a Muslim chaplain.

I don't want the situation to escalate, but I don't want to disrespect my new Soldier, who probably has a real case. What should I do? She obviously doesn't want to come to me because she doesn't know me, but they will question me if this all comes to a boil
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I know what I would do, but I'm an EOL, and have been through the training. What would YOU do?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 11:02 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 11:02:27 -0500

Oh, and this is from someone anonymous, not from me. I'm in garrison.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 11:10 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 11:10:44 -0500

Well - this is an issue that needs to be stopped immediately! There is no real, valid, legal reason for a command to insist on someone attend a party - even if it's not Christmas. I never liked, nor attended any "command attendance" functions - hell I never showed up to any of my medal ceremonies!

The first time I was counseled on failing to attend a "command function" I challenged it AND filed a grievance against the command. Long story short - I won. I never made a big deal of it - but every command I served under was aware and let it go.

These "command appearances" with religious regalia are total horseshit and need to stop. Don't try to tell me this is for unit cohesion cuz I'll throw out the Bullshit flag.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 11:45 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 11:45:01 -0500

Great post CW3 Private RallyPoint Member ...now to the Group of NCOs. ...... Don't refer her to the chaplain, get off your ass and take her to the Chaplain. Regardless of the faith of your Bn Chaplain, he is responsible to provide help to Soldiers of EVERY faith assigned to your unit. You know you have a Soldier in need of assistance, don't wait for her to come to you.

I don't see where the issue is here anyway. IF you know she doesn't celebrate Christmas and you're her squad leader, excuse her from attending. IF there is any heat from the unit leadership, you make the complaint and take the burden off the Soldier in your squad.

You're in the position to make the easy left and let it pass or the hard right....stand up and do what's right. It's quite possible the test is being made on YOU, being the new squad leader to see how you will respond to a test of right vs wrong authority.

Response by Sgt Jason West made Dec 23 at 2014 11:51 AM

Sgt Jason West — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 11:51:41 -0500

Mandatory fun days and parties should be kept at a minimum. I can see every now and then making everybody show up for something, but for the most part the disgruntled types will just be more disgruntled, so it does nothing for building espirit de corps.

Something like Mess Night, yeah mando. No problem. Christmas party? Hell no. Holiday party with anything "Christmas" at it? Hell no. If the NCOs/Staff NCOs don't handle it and tell the person they don't have to attend and then tell the command why, then yes it should be an EO issue. This isn't just a Muslim issue, this is all beliefs. There are many people who do not celebrate certain holidays for many different reasons, to attept to force them to do so is just flat out wrong.

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Dec 23 at 2014 12:03 PM

Sgt Adam Jennings — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 12:03:33 -0500

I agree, she shouldn't be forced to do anything against her religion. This is the activity that upsets me as a Chriatian because if te roles were reversed and someone forced them to do Ramadan or something else from the Islamic religion they'd pitch the biggest fit. I live by the "treat others as I'd want to be treated" rule when it comes to stuff like this.

Response by SGT Justin Singleton made Dec 24 at 2014 10:55 PM

SGT Justin Singleton — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 22:55:21 -0500

Christmas has become so secular in nature that I don't really see an issue with this. That said, if the soldier truly has religiously held beliefs that he or she believes are contrary to "Christmas" then he or she should not be required to attend. I understand that morale is the issue, and required attendance for morale-based events is in some way appropriate, but if I (as a Christian) were required to attend a Muslim event, I would more than likely feel very offended and flex my rights to avoid attending.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 8:39 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:39:47 -0500

Chaplain would be a good start maybe not to take her or refer her, but to get information about the religion in general to see what the practices are. From there, my next stop would be the unit's EOL. If the event in any way has a religious feel or vibe to it and she is forced to participate when clearly against her religion, would definitely violate one of the five protected categories under to EO program. From there, the chain of command needs to be informed of the violations he is committing (or the personnel responsible).

Not a barracks lawyer, I'm a newly trained EOL! Good luck with the situation.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 8:54 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:54:52 -0500

Sir, regardless if you are Muslem or not, you still have an obligation to hear her concerns. Although she may not celebrate Christmas, she can still participate in a mandated military function no matter what label you put on it. If your culture or religion was to have women clean and not the men, would you allow your male soldiers to get out of a G.I. Party? I think not. You can sell this to her in a way that she understands that the function has nothing to do with religious beliefs. She doesn't have to purchase presents and exchange gifts, but in my opinion she should be there for her fellow soldiers. It is a huge part of tradition and heritage. Where do we draw the line? Pretty soon we will not be able to have tradition because we as a nation will be too worried about offending someone's beliefs or religion. America has so much diversity that we cannot afford to accomdate everyone. If we did we would not be able to have a standard. Everyone in the military has joined on a volunteer basis. You have the right to practice your religion, but you don't have the right for your religion to impact mission readiness or effectiveness.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 25 at 2014 10:10 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 25 Dec 2014 10:10:09 -0500

My Opinion? What does it matter, Im not serving any longer and have no influence capability in what a currently serving chain of command does.

1 year, 1 month ago when I WAS still serving this nation.... I would have wished that Solder a Happy kwanzaa and asked what she had planned for the evening (or what ever time period the Christian Faith based Christmas party was scheduled)

More so that it was a get together under the guise of "Morale Boosting" Certainly that goal was not accomplished by forcing a Non Christian Faith Solder to participate in a Christian Faith based Christmas party...

And she would have never needed to attend, nor lodge a complaint with EO.... because she would have been excused by ME and the chain of command or NCO support channel would have had the pleasure of dealing with it, or addressing their concern with me and our leaders.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Dec 25 at 2014 1:21 PM

COL Ted Mc — Thu, 25 Dec 2014 13:21:11 -0500

To all (as my Jewish, Muslim, and Sikh friends say) - Merry Christmas.

If you have any problems with that then "Bah HUMBUG!".

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Dec 25 at 2014 2:17 PM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Thu, 25 Dec 2014 14:17:48 -0500

Wow that amazes me that the command forced her to participate even after she explained that is not part of her religious beliefs. She has every right to file a EO complaint if she wanted to. That leadership failed her. You don't have to be devout Muslim to talk to her you know what happened is wrong. Pull her aside and talk to her, take her to a Chaplin and if she wants to file an EO report i would point her in the right direction. She and the other soldier should of never been forced to participate in a Christmas party. There intentions were good but how they went about it was all wrong.

Response by Sgt Jennifer Mohler made Dec 25 at 2014 3:17 PM

Sgt Jennifer Mohler — Thu, 25 Dec 2014 15:17:30 -0500

If the command climate is so bad they are forcing Christmas something is seriously wrong. The IG needs to inspect the deeper issues at play. I have never participated willingly In forced holidays, even if it was one I celebrated. I have attended optional functions though. In the meantime I would help your nonchristian comrads to not participate. Even if that means sacrificing your day to sit with them and hang out on your own. It will go a long way to help the morale on your level when they see you are sympathetic to their plight.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Dec 26 at 2014 12:26 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Fri, 26 Dec 2014 00:26:53 -0500

I totally understand why an SM might be upset if they were force to attend a Christmas party for whatever reason such as religious reasons or a lack there of. So does this Soldier get upset when she receives a four day weekend due to Christmas, Easter, or other religious practices? I have always been someone who would participate in another individual's festivities if invited in order to be educated on other beliefs, cultures and heritages of other people even if it faith based but unfortunately nowadays, not very many people are that open minded as I am.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Dec 26 at 2014 10:33 AM

SGT Michael Glenn — Fri, 26 Dec 2014 10:33:56 -0500

Going out on a limb here I would suggest removing the muslim from the roster. I understand that SOME issues she has with being a muslim could and should not be granted and I would make it very clear to this SM that she should not expect anything further in the direction of lenience towards her duties as a US soldier.Again the Christmas Party I can understand, anything further would be an insult to the uniform and the service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2014 11:23 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Dec 2014 11:23:34 -0500

I have not read anything aside from the Original Post. If this is redundant, I am sorry. However, I am very tired of being told that "I do not care about the unit because I am not participating in a unit event." While a Chain of Command cannot force you into participating in an event, they do have control over your NCOER/OER, and can give you horrible marks on for not being a "team player." So, while they cannot say "you need to buy this unit T-shirt," or "you need to attend this unit ball," they can say "this is an example that you do not want to be part of the unit."

Even if you claim religious reasons, they will still make it about your lack of cohesion. At least, it is in my experience. There are some people who would rather spend time with their families than go to a ball, but even then they are seen as not being team players. It sucks, I agree. But, it is a way for the Chain of Command of any unit to make sure all their Soldiers attend social functions so the next higher Chain and see what a wonderfully cohesive team they have.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2014 11:28 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Dec 2014 11:28:34 -0500

Take care of your Soldier. Excuse her from the event. This is what we do as NCOs

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Dec 26 at 2014 4:53 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Fri, 26 Dec 2014 16:53:23 -0500

There's actually nothing in Islam to prohibits her from taking part in the secular festivities. It's when reference to "the savior" or worship becomes involved she hits a snag. The Koran recognizes Jesus as a prophet, and Christians are recognized as "people of the book" so it's not completely foreign. I would encourage her to take part in the non-religious aspects of the festivities and when something that runs counter to her faith comes up, quietly step to the rear and observe in a respectful fashion. Perhaps a few friends or unit members could assist in "shielding" her from offensive actions. She always has the option of offering to take a duty post so someone else can attend. She had to be aware that the major portion of our military is Christian to some extent when she signed up. It will be up to her in a large part, to find a way to fit in and be part of the team. It's also part of the teams job to help her find a way to do just that.

Response by SPC John Decker made Dec 27 at 2014 3:08 PM

SPC John Decker — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:08:24 -0500

I would go to her and while telling her that I was not muslim, I was in no way intending to be offensive. I would also go to command on her behalf and my own, explaining to them that while the military is not a democracy, the government it represents does not have the power to recognize any particular religion or faith, as specified in the first amendment. We are serving to preserve and protect. How is blatantly ignoring it considered preservation?

Response by SSG Stephen Arnold made Dec 27 at 2014 6:09 PM

SSG Stephen Arnold — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 18:09:40 -0500

I learned early in my Army tenure to question whether the mandatory event would involve alcohol. IDK about current regs, but there was a regulation then that forbid mandating participation in events involving alcohol.

My favorite was when they would hold an event and tell me that it was mandatory that my wife attend. When I stopped laughing they'd ask what was so funny. I'd tell them that THEY could tell my wife that she "must attend". She was young, but she was smart enough to know that SHE did not join the Army.

I think a discussion is needed with the soldier in question. An honest, open discussion.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 10:58 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:58:19 -0500

It's a CoC problem. The soldier should escalate the case outside of the unit through the proper channels to seek a resolution. The other option is the soldier could grow a spine, and not show up. I'd love to see them 'counsel' a Muslim soldier for not participating in a Christian themed holiday party. Career ender anyone?

Response by SGT Jonathan Williams made Dec 28 at 2014 1:19 PM

SGT Jonathan Williams — Sun, 28 Dec 2014 13:19:19 -0500

If she does not get support from the Command (as you stated in the post) she should seek support from EO. If she does not; it will affect those who follow her because the climate will remain uneducated. Personal courage.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Dec 29 at 2014 5:40 AM

SSG Tim Everett — Mon, 29 Dec 2014 05:40:28 -0500

To answer the question what would you/I do... don't wait for it to become an issue, take decisive action. You know there's an issue brewing? Handle it ASAP whether you feel weird or not. Maybe you take the wrong action, maybe you take the right action, but take action. And preferably take the right action, which is to escort the soldier to any chaplain if there isn't a Muslim chaplain.

As for me, because I like storytime... I'm Jewish. When I was at Ft. Meade we had a Christmas party. Guess who they asked [read as: volun-told] to be an elf. I said yes, eventually, after pretending to be a little miffed that I was not asked to be Hanukkah Harry.

Response by MSG D Cebo made Jan 6 at 2015 2:41 PM

MSG D Cebo — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 14:41:08 -0500

Yes, The Army that IS YOU!! have to accommodates every Religion, EO is the first thing Soldier want to do , yes Call the EO and encourage the EO to have observance months , oh Remember Ramadan is coming, and explain the Soldierss that is very important to Support one to another you all in the same boat DEPLOY so the only one to fix the problem is some NCO talk to Subordinate and explain .. have fun !!

Response by PV2 Violet Case made Jan 6 at 2015 9:50 PM

PV2 Violet Case — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 21:50:35 -0500

I surely was not a commander of any kind but did have psychology and conflict management when I went to college. I think it odd for starters that people move to a country where they no what our beliefs are. Fine when I joined the military it was my understanding that I was now property of the Government not the Government was owned by the soldier.. But in this case each person has the right to their own religion. I would probably take the stocking cut it in a few pieces that has her name on it and throw half of it away in front of her and hand the other half of it to her with a gentleness in your eyes that says I'm sorry and point to the garbage can and the part of the stocking she has.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Mar 21 at 2015 6:25 PM

SFC Collin McMillion — Sat, 21 Mar 2015 18:25:02 -0400

Since I am a firm believer in not forcing my religious, political, as well as personal opinions on others, I feel command made a huge and unforgivable mistake.