For the resident Constitutional scholars...and those who like to fake it. What really is treason?

2019-06-04T21:09:16-04:00

So, as usual, on another social media page, a 2nd amendment "discussion" went in the gutter and got out of control. But things were uttered that got me to thinking about fighting one's own government in an attempt to change or overthrow it. Here's my thoughts:

The Declaration of Independence says much about throwing off the oppression of a tyrannical government:
"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
"it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government,"
"That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved;"

Now for the definition of treason:
US Code - "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere,..."
Congress of 1790 - "If any person or persons, owing allegiance to the United States of America, shall levy war against them, or shall adhere to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States, or elsewhere,..."
US Constitution - Treason is defined in Article III, Section III of the Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

So, with the DOI quotes and the definitions of Treason, I'm curious to what your thoughts are. For starters, my reading of history seems to indicate that the Founders knew they were committing treason against the crown, but that the treason was justifiable. Now, what of our modern times? Should our government become oppressive enough, and say, half the population sees it as insufferable, do we the people have the natural right to rise up against our own government as indicated in the Declaration? If it is indeed treason, then is it a case of "we better win then"? Is the attempted overthrow, by the people, of a tyrannical government really treason? I mean it's not technically a war against the country, just those appointed to "lead" it.

As far my personal thoughts, I think treason is treason just like homicide is homicide, but sometimes it's justifiable. Only difference is, the ones committing the treason, better win the fight.

Some of you are probably much more well versed in law and constitution than I am so I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this matter of treason

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jun 4 at 2019 9:13 PM

2019-06-04T21:13:20-04:00

I think the answer is simple. The Founders got away with treason because they won. If We the People decide to rebel against a government that we believe is unconstitutional, we will get away with treason for the same reason, only if we win. If not, We'll hang. Just as at Nuremberg, the courts will be convened by the winners...

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Jun 5 at 2019 8:13 AM

2019-06-05T08:13:37-04:00

The "T" word gets thrown around a lot when it shouldn't. I agree with comments from both Jack and Gregory...there are practical, and legal realities involved that pretty much diffuse any rhetorical discussion on the matter.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2019 7:19 AM

2019-06-06T07:19:52-04:00

Requires war to aid the enemy.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Dec 20 at 2021 10:51 AM

2021-12-20T10:51:30-05:00

If you stage a revolution and win, then it’s not treason. If you lose, it’s treason. (See remarks by US Founders including Patrick Henry, Nathan Hale, Ben Franklin).

In the US we have a way to overthrow a Government that doesn’t govern in the best interests of the people, the next election. That re