Flagged. Should I take this information to Legal?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:01:09 -0400

Ended up getting flagged. Not a proud moment. There was a miscommunication between the chain of command and I. Anyways, I was being counseled by my commander on the reasoning of my flag. In the counseling it says I was in a different place than where the incident happened. Incorrect information by about 85 miles. How can they push something on me if they don’t have their facts straight. I have proof I was somewhere else also. If I took this to legal what would happen?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2020 6:05 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:05:20 -0400

Perhaps, before going to Legal, provide all evidence to your NCOs and see if they will speak to the 1SG/Commander on your behalf.

Response by CSM Ricky Forrest made Jun 16 at 2020 6:49 PM

CSM Ricky Forrest — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:49:51 -0400

JAG is a good place to start. They giving you an out obviously!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2020 8:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 20:19:16 -0400

You can be flagged pending investigation to get all the facts. The flag is to prevent favorable action until all the facts are evaluated, so in all actuality the command can flag you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2020 9:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:18:04 -0400

Your question is very misleading, the explanation should have started with the whole story that you received an article 15.

You are post Art15 and in the punishment phase. You are required to be flagged during the punishment phase. Your time to object was prior to accepting the non judicial punishment. If you took any proof to legal nothing would happen because you elected to accept the article 15. Instead You could have chosen to prove your innocence in a trial by court martial, but if found guilty you may have had prison time or a felony conviction. You could also appeal the decision, but you will already be finished with your extra duty before the appeal authority even reviews your case.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 16 at 2020 11:39 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 23:39:38 -0400

1. Anytime you have a problem like this go to Legal. 2. Be advised it's an easy fix for both sides and you can still be flagged, 3. Since you didn't say that you didn't do it I surmise that they had every right to flag you. Remember they are giving you a chance to soldier out of the flag, with nothing permanent on your record.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 11:44 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:44:44 -0400

I don't get it. you admit you were wrong. you admit they gave you the lowest punishment possible. You should be thanking your lucky stars and kissing their butts instead of worrying about a minor technicality on the flag.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jun 17 at 2020 11:45 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:45:45 -0400

here is a truth. technicalities can be corrected. What is important, is this, did you do, or not do, whatever the FLAG is for, if that can be proven, then its just a minor adjustment. Another aspect is, and you do not say in your description, is this NJP or a Court Martial. If it is a company or summarized Art. 15, and your alleged offense can be proven, are you sure you want to push for a trial by Court Martial over a mere technicality, which would then be corrected in the court, and you would still be on the wrong end of a decision, one in which can have a felony conviction, depending on the offense.

Second, if this IS part of an Art. 15 proceeding, you have 24 hours between the CSM/1SG reading you the Art.15, and the Commander imposing Judgement, in which you are specifically instructed to go to TDS, who goes over the documents with you. It is there that you point out any issues with the document(s). You failing to do this, does not constitute an unfair judgement.

Third, when you see the Commander, he will ask if you have any information, to include a witness, in which there would be a mitigating circumstance, or presents something that would effect the outcome of his judgement. If you did have this information, and failed to present it, and then signed the documents, then its a done deal. Do the time, and then drive on.

and last, if this is just a simple FLAG, while they are still considering pushing an Adverse Action up through legal for an Art. 15, or gathering the relevant documents to include in the packet, or if the Commander is thinking of a Bar To Re-enlistment, you will receive another counseling, in which you have the opportunity to correct the error.

As I have pointed out, you have ample opportunities to correct any discrepancies in the proceedings, multiple opportunities to see legal, present it to the Commander, and speak to your first line supervisor, who will be counseling you. It seems to me that you are looking for a way to circumvent punishment, or corrective action. I tell you this from experience, as I have stepped on my crank a few times and know the NJP process, from both initiating them, and receiving them.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 6 at 2020 3:31 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 15:31:52 -0400

You start by admitting it wasn’t a proud moment, then you assert you were not there. You did, or did not do what you are not proud of. If you did it, take your lumps. It is not a. Civilian court where things get thrown out on technicalities that can be corrected.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jun 18 at 2021 5:17 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Fri, 18 Jun 2021 17:17:44 -0400

There’s a difference is between being counseled and getting hit with an Article 15, if you did it then you accept it and move on. If you didn't you might want to talk to your equivalent to a Company Gunny, unless he’s your problem, and if not you take his advice.