Flag officers who break the rules often get retirement, albeit early. Enlisted who do similar things get the hammer dropped on them.

2014-03-25T17:30:47-04:00

Gen. Petraeus keeps his pension. The AFRICOM commander got a pass, and recently a flag officer convicted of sexual assault (our current #1 mission to eradicate) was fined, and allowed to retire. Does anyone believe that our Jr. Enlisted don't see the hypocrisy of this? I find this troubling. Do you?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2014 5:42 PM

2014-03-25T17:42:13-04:00

I see the hypocrisy in this and I think that we need to enforce one standard for all, regardless of our rank or position. Far too many times have I heard about a senior leader committing an offense but basically getting away with it because we "don't want to damage their careers too much." They might get a rehabilitative transfer or even a relief for cause NCOER, but they often do not face UCMJ. I have seen far too many occasions where junior Soldiers get the book thrown at them, because they can easily bounce back. I don't think these should be the factors we consider. It should be based on the crime committed. I could be the most squared away Soldier at work, but if I go rob a bank, my punishment should be based on the crime and my intent with committing the crime, not my prior service records.

Response by MSG Jose Colon made Mar 25 at 2014 5:43 PM

2014-03-25T17:43:59-04:00

UCMJ has the same problems as civilian courts. If you are poor, you usually get the hammer. BG Sinclair was offer a plea under article 60, so he wasn't convicted of assault but of minor charges. Same thing happened to a SGT in Iraq, who pleaded to simple assault, PCSed and kidnapped a Soldier and attempted sexual assault at his next duty station.

That is why there will be a revision of it in the next Manual of Courts Martial.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2014 11:21 PM

2014-05-14T23:21:47-04:00

Sir, I posted a similar post a couple weeks back. I know of a CSM and BN CDR that both received DUIs on post and neither were punished (both still in position almost a year later). I'm ok with offering retirement to people, if it's done the same way throughout.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made May 14 at 2014 11:47 PM

2014-05-14T23:47:10-04:00

General Petraeus served 37 years in the Army and General (now LTG) Ward served 41 years.

Please provide an example of an NCO, close to that many of years, that wasn't allowed to retire.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2014 6:35 AM

2014-05-15T06:35:34-04:00

Sir, General Petraeus' affair was after the military. The recent one you refer to I'm assuming is BG Sinclair. If that is the case, he was not convicted of sexual assault, he was initially accused, but not convicted. Big difference there.

General Ward was demoted one rank and fined $82K. I have never known of an enlisted Soldier to be fined anywhere close to that. The loss of one rank will have a huge effect on his retirement pay. I didn't do the calculations of it but I'm sure it's huge.

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made May 15 at 2014 8:52 AM

2014-05-15T08:52:07-04:00

Not that it doesn't happen but I will never forget the case of SMA McKinney.

"Gene C. McKinney was the 10th Sergeant Major of the Army (SMA) of the United States, serving from July 1995 to October 1997. In 1998, he was court martialed on a variety of charges including sexual harassment and obstruction of justice. He was convicted of the obstruction of justice charge and demoted to the rank of master sergeant."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2014 8:58 AM

2014-05-15T08:58:01-04:00

What I have seen is if you have over 20 years then you would get punished maybe lose rank, but there is a good chance of keeping your retirement.

Some examples I can recall.

Fort Bragg SGM who was charged with ID fraud because he enlisted under his brother's name, he lost two ranks and still retired.

SMA Mckinney, charged and convicted of sexual harrasment. demoted to MSG and allowed to retire.

SGM Stoney N. Crump working at Walter reed, forged documents wore false awards etc, demoted to SSG, 6 months in jail, but I am sure he kept his retirement.

seen a 1SG demoted to SFC and allowed to retire, had similar incidents as the SMA above.

Yes Jr enlisted do see the hypocrisy in this but its not limited to flag officers, more then one senior NCO has kept his retirement, where a SGT or SSG would have been discharged.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made May 15 at 2014 6:50 PM

2014-05-15T18:50:30-04:00

Sir,

Yes Sir. I have seen the same happen with Senior NCOs as well. I think it is terrible at any level, but I think 'they' (the mysterious and mystical they) are looking to sweep the problem under the rug by allowing the senior leaders to retire and slip off into obscurity, where the junior officers and enlisted do not have the time in service, or the friends in high places, to make these retirements happen. If the offender is gone, so is the problem.