Everything else in the Army is changing/evolving, why not this? What would you change about Army PRT and the APFT if you could?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 02:24:38 -0400

The Army has been changing/evolving in almost every aspect. Why not this? I know some of you are firm believers in the Army PRT system. Which it does have a lot of good things built into it but how many Brigades, units, companies, ect...actually utilise the program like it was meant? I would personally like to see a shift more towards strength training and proper nutrition which are key factors in building usable muscle and overall health. We are the nations force so why not look the part and be the strongest and healthiest we can be. We can still use the same principles and use phases to strengthen each service member as they get stronger. Heavy weight and low reps is the most effective way to gain strength in the least amount of time and also gives you a well prepared, less prone to injury, and healthier service member. I firmly believe it's essential to teach nutrition, which is 90% of any workout program to get the best results. You can bust you're ass in the gym day in and day out but if you're not taking in what you're body needs then your efforts are mostly for nothing.

The APFT is laughable at best. What do these 3 events tell anyone? That you can do x number of push-ups and sit-ups within 2 minutes and run 2 miles in x amount of time. I've seen some pretty out of shape soldiers max the push-up and sit-up portions with no problems but of course they always fail the run most of the time, but most of them still complete the run... Which makes me ask the question... What are we actually measuring here? I would love to see a more combat oriented style PT test which would actually measure you're ability for combat operations. I won't go into detail because this post is getting a little long but I do have many ideas on what could be used to measure these competencies. I want to hear some other service members thoughts on what they believe should be changed ( if anything).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 6:26 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 06:26:50 -0400

I think PRT serves a purpose, specially on basic training for civilians that are out of shape and need to get on a semi decent type of shape by the end of basic without injuring themselves. On the other hand, if you are in decent shape, PRT is not going to get you anywhere except maybe maintain what you got. I wish that we had other options for organized PT besides PRT, but since is what the Army mandates, is what I'll do in the meanwhile (just not on my own time).

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 6:27 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 06:27:07 -0400

I have been in the Army for 28 years and it has only slightly changed over that period. I personally believe that the Army needs to evolve in more ways than just PRT, APFT, uniform, etc. We need fresh leadership almost down to the BDE level. Many of the regulations need to be overhauled, I know AR 670-1 was just revamped but it went backward instead of forward.

We will slowly lose the knowledge we have gained over the past 14 years of combat and the "old Guys" will revert back to what they know. I think SMA Dailey is doing a great job initially and I hope he stays on track, he is a Soldiers Soldier and listens to what we have to say. Not only does he listen he actually takes action.

A good place to start is with political correctness and the catering to every cry baby. That's one old way that needs to be brought back and incorporated into the evolved Army. Need to have discipline in order to be an effective fighting force.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 7:27 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 07:27:05 -0400

Military seldom gets this one right. Concept: Be on the crew, not the baggage train. However, the supply/support train is usually larger than the warrior base. Every soldier should first be a rifleman, regardless of any other status, gender. There should be a realistic, common-core standard for each soldier to carry his/own weight and to function as part of the soldier-team based on current deployment realities. There should be an additional common-core standard for each MOS and unit mission also based on realities. Push ups, Sit ups, and running in tennis shoes doesn't tell us much in that regard. Martial Arts builds confidence. Would you rather have a unit clerk or medic who can run a marathon or one who is competent first as a soldier and second in their MOS? Or how about the fellow who can lift 400 pounds and carry two 50 cal machine guns with full gear, but who cannot run one mile?

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 8 at 2015 8:54 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 08:54:02 -0400

The big thing to remember is what each "thing" is trying to do or measure.

The APFT (Physical FITNESS Test) is a measure of Health. Although it supports "Readiness" and "Combat Effectiveness" it is not a measurement of either.

I spout this a lot, but we're trying to make a hammer put in screws. For whatever reason, most people just cannot get past the idea that because there is a physical aspect to all of these, they are somehow linked. They are not. Just like Ruck Marching and APFT aren't linked.

So, as you said, we (the services) do need to evolve and develop good tests for measuring combat effectiveness, and good programs to support that, but we also need to do a good job of explaining what the purpose of our current programs are for as well.

Response by SFC Jeremy Stocker made Jul 8 at 2015 10:48 AM

SFC Jeremy Stocker — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:48:55 -0400

The general purpose of the APFT is to measure your muscular endurance, aerobic fitness for the purpose of your state of fitness and readiness.
The current APFT as it is now has people training specifically for an APFT despite what TC 3-22.20 and FM 7-22 say about physical training instead of training for the physical challenges Soldiers face in combat.
At no time while in combat have I ever put on some shorts and running shoes and ran two miles. I have done many short concurrent sprints under a combat load on flat ground and up hills. I have had to pull myself up and over walls, carry fellow Soldiers and Mission essential gear. The APFT should focus on similar things but in a safe manor as prevent unnecessary injuries.
That being said I do think that the APFT should be done in 2 phases. The first phase would be do in the APFU and consist the standard current APFT with the addition of the pull-up.
The 2 mile run is a good cardiovascular assessment. Cardiovascular health is important, it is what helps us endure.
The Sit-up event measures core strength which ties our upper and lower body together and enhance or strengths.
The push up measures our upper body strength.
The pull-up should be added as this would test muscle groups needed climb over walls and obstacles, however at no time should kipping be allowed.
The second phase would be in the ACU with full battle rattle to include Sappy plates and simulated combat load.
The events should include and obstacle course that simulates moving through a difficult environment, wall climbs and stairs, but not be so large that it takes a fit Soldier longer than 5 minutes.
A 100 meter dash.
And finally a ruck march.
If all event are passed there would be no need for height, weight and tape, because this Soldier is fit and can perform as a warrior should.
We are the warriors of our nation and should train as such. I do not know how many time I have had to carry the weight for a “fit” Soldier with a PT Badge because they were not Strong all around.
But this is just my humble opinion.

Response by SPC Virgil Beach made Feb 27 at 2020 10:28 AM

SPC Virgil Beach — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:28:20 -0500

When I joined the military, 2nd Batt/2nd Infantry, I weighed 142 lbs when I first went in, when I got out I weighed 176 lbs. I definitely gained muscle, but I remember going to the gym and only being able to curl 30 lbs and struggling, it was my max. However my legs were very strong, I was putting up 7 45 plates on each side. There needs to be a balance to build strength for the entire body. If you get out of an infantry unit and can only curl 25 lbs, something is wrong!