Is there any particular reason why every time that I go out with the Civil Air Patrol, I hear people yell stolen valor at my cadets?

2021-12-20T22:19:27-05:00

I don’t understand why when I go out with the CAP I hear people yell stolen valor to my cadets and it makes them feel like losers and or criminals

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2021 11:24 PM

2021-12-20T23:24:20-05:00

Never have heard that. Really don’t understand why it would be an issue.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Dec 21 at 2021 2:28 AM

2021-12-21T02:28:16-05:00

Some people are a-holes. Some earn the title and others are born that way.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Dec 21 at 2021 3:12 AM

2021-12-21T03:12:33-05:00

I am a Squadron Deputy Commander, have been the Wing Encampment Commander the last two encampments and have a Master rating in Cadet Programs. First, Sergeant thank you for paying it forward with the absolute best kids on Earth.
Now to your question, Many people don't differentiate the uniforms and don't see it as an equivalent to JROTC because our Cadets actually do things in the Search and Rescue and the Emergency Services arena. I walked up on a Sergeant from Fort Bragg that was almost nose to nose with one of my Cadets accusing this kid of Stolen Valor. When I saw it, I went up, Identified myself as both the Cadet's commander and retired Army, showing my ID card. I requested to see the Soldier's ID Card, and asked his unit. I explained that it was a 16 year old CAP Cadet and civilian that he was knife handing and that I was going to inform his chain of command for his lack of tact and unprofessional behavior. I then pulled out my Army Values Card, which I still carry in my wallet and asked this Sergeant which of the Army Values his disgraceful public behavior and his degrading of a kid that wanted to be a Soldier, was exemplifying. The offending Soldier was so embarrassed that he apologized profusely, and I still to this day wonder what his Regimental Sergeant Major did when he received the letter that I sent him about the incident.
In EVERY INCIDENT, you as the CAP Senior Member must do the right thing. If the Cadet is wrong, and claiming to be something he is not FIX it, but if the Cadet is correct, you MUST no matter what take care of that Cadet. Those Cadets look to us as leaders, mentors and examples, and those parents look to us take care of their kids. And, they have every right to expect us to.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Dec 21 at 2021 5:50 AM

2021-12-21T05:50:03-05:00

Look I may be off base, I will speak from my own experience. I was already a CSM by the time I heard of any service like this. I had a neighbor who was a General in a Texas group, I say group because I don’t remember correct organizational title. On day while working in my yard I saw him in uniform, I knew he was a retired MSG (E8). I saluted him and asked what this was all about. After he explained I saluted him again and thanked him for his continued service.

Keep in mind that I was already a nominative level CSM who just learned of such organizations, ignorance, head in the sand, or the fact that I spent most of my time overseas. So to the point, sone people feed off from the ignorance of others, instead of inquiring and doing research they are like sheep and go the easy route to be a follower.

People like that do not deserve the time of day form thise like you that serve. If given the opportunity I would offer a community activity day to one recruit and two get your story out there in your community. He’ll write an article for the local paper.

Ignore the ignorance and take action to enlighten the community.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 21 at 2021 7:36 AM

2021-12-21T07:36:39-05:00

Mistaken identity. The kids are being confused for Airmen, and people in the Air Force are famous for pretending they're in the military.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Dec 21 at 2021 8:22 AM

2021-12-21T08:22:25-05:00

I would just explain to those that do it that they are morons and need to STFU about stuff they don't have a clue about.
But I'm a former Infantry and Engineer Officer and past 65. I find I tend to be a bit abrupt with idiots the older I get.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2021 11:09 AM

2021-12-21T11:09:57-05:00

Most people (even in the military) have never heard of Civil Air Patrol, Sea Cadets, Young Marines or JROTC.
And some people are also a-holes.
Print up some handy flyers, tri-folds or business cards that explain the program, recent community events, and lists an url to your public cap.gov website and/or facebook page.
Hand them out, educate people.
The more people know, the more likely the informed civilian standing next to that a-hole will correct him for you.

Also, take some time to remind your joes that most people (even in the military) have never heard of Civil Air Patrol, Sea Cadets, Young Marines or JROTC.
And some people are also a-holes.
And that kind of adversity should never stop them from doing the right thing.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2021 9:36 PM

2021-12-21T21:36:03-05:00

Because those numbnuts don't know about CAP....or care to know about CAP.

Response by Tanya Brown made Dec 22 at 2021 11:31 AM

2021-12-22T11:31:47-05:00

As someone who understands what the CAP is, and that it is a sister auxiliary to the Air Force I would not suggest that. What I will suggest is that if you are a member of the CAP remember who you are, to include that many see the uniform and see the AF, because of that I expect you to behave and wear the uniform in a manner that reflects well of the AF. The local CAP in my area allows the students to wear uniforms that are poorly cared for, or don't fit properly...or even the CAP commander in Albany County recently wore the uniform improperly. Because of that those who see this could have a reason to gripe, not call out stolen valor as long as they aren't claiming to be military, but definitely a gripe. And I see it more times than not that the CAP is a poor representation as an auxillary.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Dec 22 at 2021 11:46 AM

2021-12-22T11:46:57-05:00

My all time favorite was meeting some USCG guys who were in Iraq. The were doing interdiction in the Persian Gulf. They were authorized to roll up their sleeves. Many times they had Army morons run up to to them demanding the roll down their sleeves. "Army Regs" they would holler. These two guys just pointed at their uniform and said "Dude, Coast Guard". Many Army people just didn't get it. If you don't know the regs of other services or organizations, chill out.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Dec 22 at 2021 5:12 PM

2021-12-22T17:12:42-05:00

Civil Air Patrol (CAP), including cadets, are authorized to wear their own decorations. These decorations are not decorations authorized by the DoD (however, any decoration authorized by the DoD is authorized for wear by CAP members). Nonetheless, they are authorized for CAP member wear, and this need to be respected.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Dec 22 at 2021 6:22 PM

2021-12-22T18:22:08-05:00

There's always "haters" in the world. Cadets aren't too young to learn this. You and they should ignore them. Make sure the Cadets wear the uniform properly and proudly display the USAF Auxiliary patch on their uniforms. They also need to be able to explain what that means. The ribbons and badges they earn have meaning and they should be able to explain them to anybody who asks or thinks they are fake ribbons.

I was a CAP Cadet throughout High School. It's not a well understood organization. I explained it to a lot of my friends, but only convinced a couple to join our Cadet Squadron. I got a lot out of the CAP. I learned important leadership skills and acquired knowledge about aviation and airmanship. Our Senior Squadron gave me a "scholarship" to solo in the unit's Piper Cub when I completed the highest level of training available to Cadets at the time. Before I started university I was the Cadet Squadron Commander. And I met a young lady who was a Cadet. She became my wife a few years later.

I started AFROTC way ahead of my freshman peers. (I attended a State University at which all male students were required to complete 2 years of Army or Air Force ROTC at the time.) I knew drill and ceremony, military courtesy, Air Force history, traditions and organization. I was comfortable with the Air Force uniform and ranks.

Response by SFC James Himes made Dec 22 at 2021 7:42 PM

2021-12-22T19:42:55-05:00

Been with Civil Air Patrol for over 30 years and have never once had anyone question them. In fact my cadet throughout the years have been embarrassed when they are often thanked for their service. I always tell them to be professional and graceful and accept the recognition. Maybe we have less butt-heads in Ohio.

Response by TSgt David Marti made Dec 22 at 2021 8:56 PM

2021-12-22T20:56:09-05:00

If the folks saying these things are USAF members, then they haven't read anything about the history of their service! I agree with some of the previous statements, use it as an educational experience for all involved. I did when I was in CAP. I once had to educate my active duty squadron commander and 1st sergeant how I went from active duty Staff Sergeant to Civil Air Patrol Captain in a matter of minutes. A little knowledge goes a long way!

Response by SP5 William Jones made Jan 17 at 2022 11:41 PM

2022-01-17T23:41:01-05:00

i think you'll find that most of them were "Gara troopers"
(apropos to yell back in unison, btw)
or no military history at all.
Hell, I've been accused of similar nonsense and I've been carrying shrapnel in my legs, arm and back
since March 31,1967 (Battle of Ap Gu, 1st/26th, 1st Inf Div)
or
Ignore them. There' no effin' glory in war,
regardless of the crap politicians spew to get you to fight for them.

Response by SFC Kevin Strakal made Jan 18 at 2022 2:46 PM

2022-01-18T14:46:05-05:00

Because people are ignorant and want to cause some kind of drama, plain and simple. I worked with the CAP when I was a US Army Recruiter and had no issues at all. As long as the CAP is doing their thing, they should be supported 100%. Another thing they don't need to "feel" like losers or criminals. Make sure that their confidence, pride and stamina are such that whoever attempts to condemn them, they have the tenacity in their soul to take charge. This is what the CAP is all about.

Response by SFC Kevin Strakal made Jan 18 at 2022 2:46 PM

2022-01-18T14:46:28-05:00

Response by CPL Johnnie White made Jan 18 at 2022 9:59 PM

2022-01-18T21:59:22-05:00

I ran into a fellow a number year ago, he started asking me how old I was, since I was wearing my Vietnam hat. He tried to figure out how old I was when I served there.
I made sure that he understood that I did not fake my time in the RVN, As hard as it was to get 100% disability. It was hard enough to get what I was entitled to. As much time as I spent there, was not about to fake my time. It was not worth it to have to live with, myself to me that is not a good place to be. Being honest is the thing that matters to. After more than 73 years I still suffer from PTSD. You have to ignore stupid people. You probably figured out that these people did not serve,. So in order to make themselves feel good, that put other people down.
I hope that helped.

Response by SSgt Randall Matheny made Jan 19 at 2022 11:34 AM

2022-01-19T11:34:33-05:00

What people? Please let me know. I am a USAF veteran and a CAP chaplain. CAP cadets are volunteering a lot of time and talents to learn love of country and skills to be of lifetime service to their communities, states, and nation whether they go on to serve in the military or not. Watching young people change through CAP service has been one of the greatest blessings of my life. A lot of adults, and maybe some veterans, could learn a lot from them. Get some CAP business cards and make it a point to hand them out to ignorant antagonists. Invite them to a meeting and challenge them to put their money where their mouths are.

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2022 3:13 PM

2022-01-19T15:13:31-05:00

They're probably too stupid to know what "stolen valor" really means.

Response by TSgt David Marti made Jan 19 at 2022 5:18 PM

2022-01-19T17:18:53-05:00

Because people are usually unaware of what CAP is and what the cadet program is. Because of that ignorance plus their own need to self agrandize, they attack the weaker target. I have also seen this happen to JROTC cadets. It is a shame what these cadets must deal with.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jan 19 at 2022 8:45 PM

2022-01-19T20:45:22-05:00

Short answer, people have a tendency to be short sighted idiots.

I’ve seen the same people yell at High School JROTC cadets and say the same thing.

Just tell them to call the police if they feel the need to rattle their swords but it’ll be on them when they are told to kick rocks.

Response by Lt Col Scott Arnott made Jan 19 at 2022 9:40 PM

2022-01-19T21:40:39-05:00

I couldn't agree more! I'm a retired USAF guy with almost 27 years service, E-1 to O-5. My daughter was in the CAP and Jr ROTC, then ROTC in college and served as an ICBM Missile Launch Officer. Yes, the CAP does provide medals/ribbons, similar to the Boy Scouts medals/insignia. I have never heard a vet "crap" on CAP or ROTC troops, they are an initial step to serving our Nation! The people that are behaving that way are probably "Wanna Be's" that never served! Feel free to share this, as you deem appropriate, with your CAP cadets!

Response by SMSgt Gerald Goertz made Jan 20 at 2022 9:30 AM

2022-01-20T09:30:40-05:00

As a former member of Civil Air Patrol and 30 retired AF Veteran some people just don't have a clue what they are saying or taking about.

Response by TSgt Greg Natsch made Jan 20 at 2022 9:47 AM

2022-01-20T09:47:08-05:00

They most likely have no clue regarding:
1. CAP is the AF Auxiliary
2. Stolen Valor is about misrepresenting military service for financial gain.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2022 10:01 AM

2022-01-20T10:01:57-05:00

I served in the Virginia Defense Force for nine years after active service in the Army. We dealt with the same thing: The solution I came up with was essentially an elevator pitch: A standardized 30 second pitch about what the VDF is, the legal authority under the Virginia governor and what the VDF does in support of the Virginia National Guard. But people are assholes.

Response by SSG David Gallagher made Jan 20 at 2022 6:26 PM

2022-01-20T18:26:21-05:00

I was in the CAP a very long time ago. They have been around for years but they are not a very well known organization.
Nowadays, when people see any type of uniforms that they are not familiar with, they automatically make assumptions and jump the gun saying something stupid. People need to be educated about such groups like the CAP and JROTC and maybe the comments will lessen. Best case...let people know who you are and what you do.

Response by SFC Barbara Layman made Jan 21 at 2022 6:29 AM

2022-01-21T06:29:55-05:00

I think it largely depends on the area of the country in which one is raised/grew up. As a teen I was aware of the CAP because they were often called upon to assist in searches for missing persons, particularly children.
One no longer hears of their being included in those searches today. Not clear whether it's because they aren't called upon or the 'media' has no clue.

Response by PO3 Tamara LeMay made Jan 21 at 2022 1:54 PM

2022-01-21T13:54:40-05:00

... People shouldn't do that.

Response by SFC Howard Holmes made Jan 22 at 2022 12:22 AM

2022-01-22T00:22:28-05:00

Let me ask you this Sgt., and I'm not doing it to be an A-Hole, I'm providing a suggestion that will build confidence in your CAP members in you as a leader and as a person. Have you ever thought of bringing your formation to a halt, or telling them to hold on and stay put (if not in formation) and explain to the individual(s) of the situation? This provides you an opportunity of training those who are ignorant of your organization, allows the individual(s) a chance may be to apologize, and prevent the individual(s) from doing it to your group or others. Address this in a kind, calm and professional manner, and remember, even if they can't hear you, your body language will tell these youngsters what is going on. As a Sgt., part of your responsibility is to stand up for your soldiers and provide them leadership, not just via training, but through your example. Good Luck Sgt., and thank you for what you're doing with these youngsters.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2022 8:36 AM

2022-01-22T08:36:26-05:00

Remind your cadets of what Fly Fight Win means. Your squadron is better than that. Ignore the people yelling that nonsense. Reinforce the CAP Core values with them. I get that all the time too from people who just don't know and I'm in a State Defense Force. You ask somebody what a State Defense Force is and most people couldn't tell you that either. CAP has a very proud history. I was in the CAP once 20 years ago and I have friends who are still a part of it.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Jan 22 at 2022 9:31 AM

2022-01-22T09:31:36-05:00

I am disappointed to hear that. I would suggest that individuals who conduct themselves in that manner probably are not part of the 1% of Americans who have actually served themselves. They are too stupid to recognize and distinguish the difference between a CAP uniform and an Air Force uniform. They probably behave the same way when they see someone in an ROTC, AFROTC, NROTC or a military school cadet or midshipman. Since it would be counterproductive to confront them, I suppose we just have to ignore them.

Response by 1SG Robert Siedenburg made Jan 22 at 2022 11:33 AM

2022-01-22T11:33:31-05:00

For many years, the Civil Air Patrol has played a vigorous and crucial role in the United States. Keep in mind that, apart from some few paid training opportunities, these brave cadets are volunteers. The CAP provides all kinds of useful training and critical emergency response when needed. These are remarkable young people. I'd suggest you print up a flyer explaining in brief the mission and accomplishments of this fine organization and hand it out to these ignorant folks. Spread the word. Theirs is not "stolen" but "earned" valor!

Response by SFC Jerry McLellen made Jan 23 at 2022 3:21 PM

2022-01-23T15:21:16-05:00

I knew about the CAP before I ever enlisted in the Army. Being 72 years old now, I can't believe the Senior Enlisted that claim they either never heard of it or state that most people never heard of it. Where have they been all their lives?

Response by TSgt John Sorensen made Jan 23 at 2022 8:34 PM

2022-01-23T20:34:51-05:00

Ignorant people sometimes make ignorant comments. A CAP Cadet wears the same uniform as an active-duty US Air Force airman, with the exception of rank insignia. That is NOT "stolen valor".

Response by Col Robert Wallace made Jan 23 at 2022 8:51 PM

2022-01-23T20:51:26-05:00

Some people just love to show their ignorance about anyone in uniform & some show it about all things. When I went from Active Duty to Reservist, I had the honor of being a Squadron Commander to a Civil Air Patrol twice - once in Philadelphia, PA, & the other time in Titusville, FL. Both Squadrons were Composite Squadrons, composed of adults & teenage cadets & were trained for Search & Rescue duty along with military history, conduct, law abiding & responsibility. I was immensely proud of them & honored to be their Commander. As for "stolen valor", what valor could they steal? Putting in hours of training & doing actual SAR work? Being a Semi-military unit? Earning any promotions & other awards? Sgt Adam N., may I make a suggestion? Just ignore & pay no attention to profanes (those who do not know or understand) who yell about stolen valor to your cadets & let your cadets know they are far above the "loser plane". The CAP was established during WW II & was even given "publicity" in a comic strip called "Smilin' Jack". Many of the strips had to do with the mission of the CAP & extolled the "home town heroes". Be proud of them & have them be proud of themselves.

Response by MSgt Shaun Bertram made Jan 23 at 2022 11:18 PM

2022-01-23T23:18:14-05:00

I don't believe there is any particularly acceptable reason for this. I would wonder the circumstances and if the people yelling at the CAP cadets were young and immature or adults having some other issue? I was in AFJROTC in high school (1996-2000) and we would occasionally have CAP cadets join in some of our events and I never noticed them getting made fun of, at least anymore than we were. For reasonable people this may be a great learning opportunity as others have mentioned that many have never heard of this organization and seen their unique uniforms.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Jan 24 at 2022 7:24 AM

2022-01-24T07:24:51-05:00

Much as you and the kids might not like it, as others have said, there are knuckleheads in this world. Consider it a life lesson, there will be a lot more. You're gonna run into people like this, whether it be your situation or just walking out the front door any given day. As my old Dad, (RIP), used to say, "That's life in a large family."

Response by MAJ Gregory Moon made Jan 25 at 2022 10:44 AM

2022-01-25T10:44:47-05:00

I will second the SGM below. One problem that can happen is that since there are awards and ribbons cadets can wear. People that don't know that will look at a kid with badges or ribbons and they see someone too young to have the awards. In College ROTC we used to kid about some cadets earning the "Mexican General" award by having ribbon racks four or 5 rows deep. My ribbon rack for my first 10 years in the Army was 2 rows and no combat patches. If the conflicts happen out of your sight. You have to show them how to deal with the situation. If you're nearby time to move in to be the shield for them. That is an invaluable leadership lesson right there. People don't know about all the military auxiliaries it's shame. Sometimes when they do they are still butts. I went through Army JROTC and being in the Pittsburgh area where Heinz was a big thing we were called Pickles( Green uniform). Some of the guys had the little green pickle pin that Heinz gave out pinned under the Jacket lapel and would flash that back at the the name callers. One big thing is stress the proper wear of the uniform for the situation you're in. I know it is basic but you're dealing with cadets getting the basics right now makes for better officers and airman later. Good luck and God bless

Response by Col Michael Morgan made Jan 25 at 2022 12:15 PM

2022-01-25T12:15:52-05:00

Its words the community don't understand that they heard on the News. Cadets are not associated with the Stolen Valor because their awards are not awarded by Congress.

Response by SFC Mark Lathan made Jan 28 at 2022 4:55 AM

2022-01-28T04:55:16-05:00

Watch the movie Idiocracy, then you'll understand why.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2022 3:01 PM

2022-01-29T15:01:06-05:00

Many great comments. I have been involved with CAP since I was a cadet and continued to be a member since I entered the military. CAP is the best kept secret of the Air Force and public. Despite the wartime service in WWII (with the Air Medals, two confirmed u-boat sinkings, Congressional Gold Medal for the WWII members, and the American Campaign Streamer), Cold War Service, and the great work since September 11th for GWOT (we were the only civilians planes flying on 09/11) resulting in the Air Force Organizational Excellence Award and movement to Air Combat Command. So it is getting the word out.

Regarding the stolen valor statements directed toward the youth, that is more due the amount of awards. For those not in the know, the uniform is the Air Force Uniform with distinct insignia. So you have a group of youth, in Air Force Uniforms, wearing distinct items (and patches with the ABU). Add on to the amount of awards, as each achievement in Phase I and II has a ribbon, the the ignorant will yell stolen valor. This is a teaching moment. As a Senior Member, politely correct the name callers. I ran into the same situation a few times. I introduced myself, mentioned I am also in the military, and then provided a quick explanation of CAP with a link they can go to. You may not always be able to do this but what is important is protecting the cadets.

And thank-you SGT Nesler for volunteering your time to CAP and in particular, to the cadets.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2022 5:02 PM

2022-01-29T17:02:30-05:00

A shame to see some people in our ranks (I assume) are willing to be numbskulls. There are a lot of us who first became interested in serving through one of the various cadet programs.

Response by SP5 Donna Barr made Jan 31 at 2022 11:29 AM

2022-01-31T11:29:06-05:00

It’s a 12th-man thang, like Seahawks fans. They ain’t on the field, but they think they control the ball. Your cadets are public servants like all uniforms, and all citizens are your CIC’s - and should treat all their servants with consideration. I bet those yelling are Mrs. General and Frau Captain and their brats. Also technically CIC’s and should have better manners.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Leake made Feb 7 at 2022 5:46 AM

2022-02-07T05:46:59-05:00

Some people are ignorant and don't know anything about the Civil Air Patrol. You can ignore them, or try to educate them one on one. Your cadets don't need to be put through that sort of harassment. Keep doing what you're doing and encourage and support your cadets.

Response by SSgt Gordon Hayes made Feb 9 at 2022 9:55 PM

2022-02-09T21:55:36-05:00

It's the new ignorance (some say, stupidity). I was CAP in the 60s. I was USAF in the 70s. I've never heard this happening. Unbelievable. It's really nonsensical and they have to just not understand or have the knowledge of what's actually going on. Not to mention beyond building character, prepping for basic training, and other things... finding downed aircraft and such. Unbelievable. This just makes me sad.

Response by Cpl Henry E Busby made Apr 8 at 2022 9:29 AM

2022-04-08T09:29:26-04:00

It seems as though there are those among us who have nothing better to do with their time and energy other than to try to rear someone else down. Sometimes it is difficult, but I really try to keep to the adage of "Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind". And those who don't know should ask before making assumptions.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 8 at 2022 9:45 AM

2022-04-08T09:45:27-04:00

F… em!

Response by SSgt Mathew Cummings made Apr 8 at 2022 10:55 AM

2022-04-08T10:55:58-04:00

Ignorance can be closely attached to an individuals greatest acts of stupidity. While most of these people are considering themselves great patriots for defending a set of ideals, no matter how righteous, is being done with a foul shade. I do agree with providing them information. Education is the best venue to prevent radical acts. However, without providing them with facts, arguing with an idiot is fruitless. They will always win and never know why.