Every base camp perimeter was a front line in the Vietnam War. Is that true in today's Middle Eastern conflicts?

2016-03-04T20:53:08-05:00

I'm not sure why but this description of the war in Vietnam seems to be the most popular of my blog postings. It may just resonate more with those who served there. I just received another comment on it today and began to wonder if the same may be said of base camps in the Middle East.

http://jackdurish.com/jacks-blog/every-base-camp-perimeter-was-a-front-line-in-the-vietnam-war

Every base camp perimeter was a front line in the Vietnam War

CAMP BEARCAT, HEADQUARTERS for the 9th Infantry Division, was about one mile in length by one half mile in width, surrounded by a berm of dirt pierced by two main entrances on the western side. A...

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Mar 4 at 2016 9:01 PM

2016-03-04T21:01:18-05:00

Obviously I haven't been there since I retired 2 years after Desert Storm, but from all descriptions I here that would be a fairly good analogy.

Response by SPC Timothy Repetto made Mar 4 at 2016 9:01 PM

2016-03-04T21:01:50-05:00

Yes and No, because your enemy is everywhere, Yes. They are using the same tactics as the American settlers used in the Revolutionary War. Blend in with the environment, STRIKE, then disappear again. And it's working we drive around on the roads, all in a column, as loud as can be. Big Targets. Just like the redcoats. Things aren't the same though as it was in Vietnam. Different enemy fighting for a different cause I think. But Evil is Evil no matter what face it wears.

Response by SGT James Puff made Mar 4 at 2016 9:20 PM

2016-03-04T21:20:54-05:00

I can say from my experience at the outposts along the Kunar river and various valleys that yes we were on the front so to speak.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2016 9:38 PM

2016-03-04T21:38:11-05:00

Honestly....it depends. Not every COP/PB comes under fire. Others get hammered. Different fight with a different enemy.

Response by SGT Jonathon Caldwell made Mar 4 at 2016 9:38 PM

2016-03-04T21:38:49-05:00

I would have to agree. FOB's and COP's are enemy magnets. Let alone attacking the bases, you are more likely to get attacked the closer you get to a base or shortly after leaving one.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2016 10:14 PM

2016-03-04T22:14:26-05:00

The answer to this question is yes. The more truthful answer to this question is... Not really....

While it's true our Super Fobs in theather do get mortars and and vbieds commonly... They're not effective. usually. On KAF people would have incoming weekly.... But could go a whole deployment without even ever feeling a round land.

As you push out though and the fobs grow smaller, more isolated, as the paved highway (better paved highway than most of America) falls away to gravel and dirt...... That's when you really enter theather.

Then you return to a super fob and get chewed out for having dirty boots and not having my CAC displayed hanging off my collar....after convoying 10 hrs to get there.

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Mar 4 at 2016 10:24 PM

2016-03-04T22:24:13-05:00

I always felt safer out in the boonies than in base camp,maybe because out in the jungle our perimeter did not have sand bag bunkers artillery or mortars to give a false sense of security,you had complete trust in the guys of your company and we had the good fortune of having trained together since basic back in Fort Lewis.I really don't know too much about the base camps in the Mideast but am sure the basic rules of perimeter security are followed

Response by SPC David Glines made Mar 5 at 2016 1:09 AM

2016-03-05T01:09:42-05:00

I say yes

Response by PO1 Roger Stroklund made Mar 8 at 2016 12:43 PM

2016-03-08T12:43:44-05:00

I worked as a contractor on Camp Eagle/FOB Apache in Qalat-E-Gilzay, Zabul Province, Afghanistan for about ten months. Whenever I was done getting dinner for my local national guys, I would always grab a handful of cold bottles of water and shoot the shit with the gate guards for a bit. Those guys worked directly out of the Mayor's Cell, and my contract meant that nobody really knew what I was doing (not secret, just boring), so BS-ing with those guys was all the intel I could get.

Anyways, one day, I'm talking with one of the guys as we sit behind his SAW in the bunker, and this group walks up, getting ready to head out to the Afghan side of the base. About five people walk up, and only three of them leave. One of the two that stayed was this young girl, E-2 I think, second day in country, and she had those big googly eyes that young people get when they see everything new for the first time. She asks us, "So, how far are we from Afghanistan?"

My buddy and I look at each other, "You're in Afghanistan."

"No, no," she laughs, "I mean, how far are we from the Afghans?"

My buddy and I look at each other again, then we both point at some guys playing soccer on a pitch just outside the gate, "About that far."

If her eyes were wearing pants, they would have been shit in. We tried to calm her down, she was seriously freaking out, by telling her that those were Afghan National Army soldiers, so she asks, "Oh, so we don't have problems with them?"

This was a few months after a "Green on Blue" happened right on the soccer pitch we were looking at. The SAW we were sitting behind was the very weapon that ended the situation. A few months before that, the guy who taught literacy classes across the road from my shop was busted trying to sneak detonators onto the base. The investigation found the explosives in his office, he just needed the detonators. On top of that, tensions were still high because a young Afghan soldier claimed to have fallen asleep when the armory he was guarding was emptied of every M-16 on the shelves.

All my buddy and I could do was say, "Eh.." as we waved our hands in a "so-so" level, palm down wave.

I don't know if it was the same for the Viet Nam veterans, all I know is that's what it was like. We had a runway between our base and an SF compound, and I remember how crazy it seemed when I was dropping somebody off for their C-130, and just as the plane is coming into land, a kid tries to cross the runway. He's some local kid, riding his bike, pissed off because some guy in a baseball cap with an M-4 is telling him to back the hell off. I couldn't believe it; we were landing a C-130 on an unsecured runway that had a 40MPH sweep on a Gator just before landing. I know the Mayor's Cell had a camera on the whole thing, but come on.

Before anybody says anything about me being a dumbass for picking the gate guards to get my intel from, I know; you don't spend time at the gate unless you have to. I had to do something, though, because I had no weapon and a radio that nobody ever listened to. I needed to make sure somebody with some weapons gave a shit about me enough to check if shit went down.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-03-08T14:57:06-05:00

Similar, but different. The green zone was more highly fortified, yet still porous due to the abilities of the insurgents to penetrate and exploit the false sense of security those high concrete walls implied. Outside the green zone, we moved in vehicles that were soft targets for well placed IED's, and yes, every local national was suspect and had to be viewed as a threat no matter what, at all times!

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2016 4:16 PM

2016-03-08T16:16:11-05:00

Just from my experience I would say no. Yes there are the FOBs that are more isolated, smaller and receive more direct and indirect Fire. It would depend on where you was deployed.

I was deployed 9 times to KAF. Only on my last couple deployments would my unit even carry our weapons around when traveling around the FOB. We would receive mortar fire on a regular basis, but nothing to even worry us. Once again, I know not everyone was this lucky though.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Mar 8 at 2016 4:33 PM

2016-03-08T16:33:08-05:00

It depends on a lot of factors, like where the FOB was located, what kind of relationship you had with the locals, what kind of defense measures were in place, and what time period in OIF/OEF you are talking about. But yes, FOB in today's world are potentially as dangerous as any during Vietnam.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Mar 8 at 2016 8:01 PM

2016-03-08T20:01:12-05:00

Have served in both AO's I can say that the Base Camps in Nam and the medium to large FOB's in Iraq are ver similar. The exception being that we did our own security in Nam and there were NATO troops on the larger FOB's in Iraq. The enemy operational style was different too. In Nam there were many more attempts to infiltrate through the wire (and were very good at it). In Iraq, with a few exceptions, they mostly attacked the entry points or indirect fire.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Mar 8 at 2016 11:48 PM

2016-03-08T23:48:35-05:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner. CPT. Durish your assumption is correct. Troops went to the field for a week or two at a time, some worked out of fire bases which were always in Indian territory, or if you were in a Armored Cav. as a dismount you could also find yourself in a Lagger at night. It was best just to plan on getting a few mortar rounds lobbed at you at night or in a night ambush patrol, we never set up in the position we were ordered to. The orders came down from Squadron that had Vietnamese around and we had enough assigned ambush spots hit that we caught on, again disobeying orders. Most night ambush patrols were lead by an Sp4. NCO's who were also track commanders were to valuable to send out on these missions and don't even think about having an officer. One of the first 11th. Cav KIA's was an intelligence officer that went out on a night ambush patrol that got hit. The most "its sucks" thing an officer can do is not pull an ambush one its been hit, that bites. Thankfully as I have heard they don't do this any more, there is other ways of finding out where the enemy was moving around at night.

Response by CPT Quentin von Éfáns-Taráfdar made Mar 9 at 2016 11:00 AM

2016-03-09T11:00:27-05:00

I have a sneaking suspension that in today's wars every person is a front line!