Every 3 years PCS. Dumb or dumber?

2015-12-11T11:39:58-05:00

PCS is getting stupid. The Army spends millions every year to move people who are good at what they do. They then will get 14 days off for PCS, spend 6 months learning their new job, and for what? We take people with advanced degrees and move them every 3 years just for promotion.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Dec 11 at 2015 11:42 AM

2015-12-11T11:42:57-05:00

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member I agree. I have established a rhythm and it is now time to move. Not to mention selling a house.

Response by SSG Raymond Whitener made Dec 11 at 2015 11:47 AM

2015-12-11T11:47:53-05:00

I think PCS moves should revolve around a soldiers home of record. So, a soldier is from El Paso, TX. That soldier would rotate between Bliss, Sam Houston, Huachuca, and White Sands. This method would greatly decrease the cost of moving, and, the people would recognize one another as regional teams

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2015 1:37 PM

2015-12-11T13:37:29-05:00

Sir, I couldn't agree with you more. In 2008, I PCSd from Washington DC to Germany after being there for 1 year to the day. My wife's family, who are all Air Force, couldn't understand why the Army would waste so much money repacking everything and moving us overseas. Soldiers should have a good 4-5 years wherever they go for stability

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2015 1:59 PM

2015-12-11T13:59:14-05:00

Sir,
Luckily FORSCOM is looking into this. I only know because of a recent meeting with the FORSCOM CSM. Hopefully things will change sooner rather than later and you are spot on with your assessment.

Response by SPC Jillian O'Malley made Dec 11 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-12-11T14:46:12-05:00

I hardly know anyone who gets to PCS every 3 years, but it would be nice if that did happen. We were dual military at Riley for 5 years, my spouse did 6 years at Stewart, now back at Riley probably until his retirement. Would like to see the world, or even the U.S. but it just doesn't seem to be the norm for enlisted now

Response by Maj William Gambrell made Dec 11 at 2015 4:21 PM

2015-12-11T16:21:50-05:00

Concur 100%...and I am an acquisition officer that didn't understand the same nonsense. But, there is a mentality that you have to move in order to understand the entire military as an officer. Supposedly, that is the only way you can get promoted to "General." So, the decision historically is to move everyone despite the fact the military tries to keep a rank balance within career fields. I have tried to explain this to leaders in the Air Force. If a F-16 pilot is PCS'd, they don't have much to learn. But, when you move an engineer, they have to start over again.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Dec 11 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-12-11T16:30:59-05:00

Going back to 1974, 3 year PCS was too long for the guys and gals in Korea and else where; remote Island for one. Even Hawaii became a rock too.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Dec 11 at 2015 4:56 PM

2015-12-11T16:56:55-05:00

When I switched from Army to AF, I was surprised to learn that the AF does not move its folks in the way the Army does. Back in my Army days, the longest time that you spent at a base was 5 years, but most folks PCS'd after 3 years or less.

I know guys in the AF that spent 20 years at the same base. The AF seems to keep its folks longer at individual bases. However, I will say that AF officer movement is not the same as enlisted. For squadron commanders (Majors), they seem to rotate every 2 years. Its an extremely inefficient system. Senior NCO's move more often than junior enlisted.

Both services seem to do a poor job with personnel assignment and waste a ton of money moving folks all the time. Families and unit moral would benefit with moving folks less often. Second term and beyond enlistments should be 5 years at a minimum.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 11 at 2015 5:46 PM

2015-12-11T17:46:11-05:00

I concur 100% that we PCS too much. It's hard on the families.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 9:30 AM

2015-12-12T09:30:35-05:00

The Army has more than a million Soldiers, just less than half of which are Active Duty. Certainly, there should be room for increasing stability in assignments. However, each career field is different and has different demands, so there would still be a need for short assignments, say, in places where tours are unaccompanied or where other reasons justify routine rotation. But for the bulk of the Army that is stationed in the U.S., really there isn't that much difference between, say, Ft. Hood and Ft. Bragg. There are benefits in the current system, mostly with broadening experiences for folks as they progress in rank. Clearly, there are huge downsides---I think DoD spends billions (not millions) PCSing folks every year. One of the biggest challenges that would prevent a move to increasing average assignment length is Congress' unwillingness to allow DoD to close bases it doesn't need. Without another couple rounds of BRAC to consolidate bases, creating the idea of homesteading as the norm just isn't a realistic option.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 7:03 PM

2015-12-12T19:03:34-05:00

It would be nice to spend more time at one place in one job. It seems like by the time you about got it. It's time to move on and do something different. Some people in some jobs three years is a long time but as a rule I think that you are right people should stay put at one place longer. Maybe just move from one job to another at the same place as needed and many just PCS every 5 years or so. There is not a good anwser to this. Even now some people mange to stay at one place for years.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 3:10 PM

2015-12-13T15:10:07-05:00

Hmm, 6 years at Stewart, 8 years at Riley and now more than a few at Bragg. I personally know not of what you speak. There are also more than anecdotal examples of those at Bragg that have been there for their entire 20.

I guess it boils down to your MOS/Branch/Corps/Cohort and being in the right mix and match as they decide how to manage people (Life-Cycle Units, ARFORGEN, etc)

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 8:18 AM

2015-12-18T08:18:33-05:00

The reason is knowledge if troopers stay in the same unit for extended periods of time they can become stuck with one limited set of skills however if a Trooper is closed to different units they become more well rounded.

I have ever in 4 units across 3 duty stations , this exposed me to unique scenarios that my peers who have only seen 1 unit will never have.

I am able to share that experience with my new unit, impacting new troopers. This is what makes the PCS process a necessity to keep our Army on point.

Sure it can even costly but the benefits have an intangible value that you simply can't dismiss.

Response by SGT Luke Wooster made Dec 3 at 2016 12:31 PM

2016-12-03T12:31:31-05:00

Respectfully disagree with this post. My reasoning is deployments to combat zones often force soldiers to do things that are out of their training and familiarity. More experiences the better, psychologically and knowledge wise. So what I knew alot about Russian and Chinese Navies, how does that help me Iraq and Afghanistan?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2016 2:38 PM

2016-12-03T14:38:52-05:00

PCS'ing isn't particularly fun, but it's a necessary evil. Keep in mind that as long as we have overseas assignments like Korea, Germany, and other places, the military will have to keep doing the PCS shuffle. If you've been stationed overseas and didn't like it, you were likely counting down the days to when you headed back to the States. Since those places need G.I. bodies to occupy them, PCS'ing is a must...unless we can round up all the people that swear up and down that they love those places and keep them there. :-) Then maybe the rest can stay put wherever.

Response by SFC David Xanten made Dec 3 at 2016 5:25 PM

2016-12-03T17:25:28-05:00

I don't know how else you can expect to have people assigned to various places in order to replace the ones that are there. Three years was the normal accompanied tour of duty overseas while I was in and one year for unaccompanied. Giving both Officer and Enlisted a chance to see how things are done in different areas of the world is a good thing. Not moving people around on a regular basis is in my opinion a big mistake.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2016 5:37 PM

2016-12-03T17:37:21-05:00

Lol id like three years, only been at one duty station for three, everywhere else it has been two...

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2016 7:51 PM

2016-12-03T19:51:22-05:00

Last I checked, permanent meant: continuing or enduring, without marked change in status or condition or place; lasting. Not capable of being reversed or returned to the original condition. So, a PCS would mean essentially you stay there forever, until you decide to go elsewhere. I've also heard FORSCOM was looking into this from a few people and hope it's true. Like the SF groups who stay in teams (to promote the best cohesion possible) as should every unit; again unless the SM decides to leave that unit for another.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Dec 3 at 2016 10:23 PM

2016-12-03T22:23:22-05:00

MAJ Ian Dews, you bring up a good point. I do hope something is done about this.
I ran the numbers for the 17y 8m of serves I had. I estimated about 308 days for both in and out processing for 9 PCS moves and a deployment that was like a PCS. What a waste to spend 10+ months in no value added activities and the cost in transportation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2016 10:33 PM

2016-12-03T22:33:47-05:00

Here is my two cents on PCS. I loved it up until recent. I like to travel and see new locations both CONUS and OCONUS. I have spent 18 years going where the Army wanted me to go. With that said, I recently got shafted with no reach-a-round. I was told that I had the option to take a hardship duty assignment and try to return to JBLM. JBLM was never guaranteed and I knew that going into this. However, I had to choose a HAAP for this hardship tour, away from my family, while my wife is trying her best to get through college nursing, maintain the house, and take care of our daughter. I was not thrilled to not go back to JBLM, but I became content with my HAAP choice of Fort Stewart, GA. This would be only two hours away from my family as they are from Florida. So, halfway through my tour here in 2nd ID, Korea, I get an email from branch saying that I can no longer go to Fort Stewart, and I am only eligible for Fort Campbell. Here is the real kick in the junk. I am retiring 1 1/2 year after I report to Campbell. Army is going to pay and move my HHG from Washington to Campbell for a total of 9 months and then ship it back to the house that it just came from. My wife and daughter currently live in our retirement house. So, not only did I not get what I was told I would if i took this assignment, but now I have to go to another location just to Transition out of the Army. Fort Stewart would suck to do the move for a short time, but like I said, it was close to my family and I would be able to have most of my family attend my retirement ceremony. Now, I will be stationed in the middle of nowhere, with family members no longer close enough to attend my ceremony. Thanks Army. I gave and you took for 18 years. I ask for one favor on my way out the door and I was told to F-off basically.

Response by SGT John Hogg made Dec 14 at 2016 1:01 PM

2016-12-14T13:01:41-05:00

The option is always there for a soldier to reenlist for stabilization, I have known leaders in units after I left Germany, who knew my first squad leader when he was a private(same unit/duty station I was in as a private). But after a while, getting stagnant in a unit, or in a unit with unsavory unit culture that promotes a high level of actions, injuries and lack of motivation to stay in the Military could become a problem, especially for newer soldiers who are untarnished, will quickly pick up that culture and assimilate the same way everyone else acts.

Take an Infantryman for example, a Light-Fighter who is in a unit, and generally walks everywhere he goes with his gear, will have no knowledge of Armored or Mounted Warfare. Skills that develop him to be a more adaptable fighter in the ever changing landscape of war.

PCS allows you to learn to take what right looks like, and what wrong looks like, and bring what to do and not to do to his next unit, platoon, squad or team.

Now if you have a family, generally the PCS time is longer, I know in Germany it was a minimum of 3 years on station before you could choose to PCS if you were married. A single soldier on the other hand, might have had his fill of Europe, and wants to go back to the states, and visit more parts of the US more often, should be given the opportunity to PCS sooner, or will re-enlist for another duty station if he doesn't want to stay there.

While moving is costly to both soldier, family and to the Army, that spouse knew that it would happen when he/she married a soldier. While most times I've seen married soldiers opt to stay until their child is finished with a certain level of schooling, as not to disrupt their educational progress, sometimes it doesn't always work out that way.

Response by LTC Stephan Porter made Oct 14 at 2018 9:25 PM

2018-10-14T21:25:40-04:00

Depends on what your goal is... however the trend is to stay longer for most Soldiers.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Oct 15 at 2018 12:30 PM

2018-10-15T12:30:53-04:00

PCS rotations build experience with a variety of areas, cultures, types of units, expands Soldiers contacts and prevents stagnation. These are all reasons the old regimental system was done away with and the training centers came into being, used to be many moons ago that Soldiers stayed in the same units from induction to ETS or retirement. A couple good books out there that depict the reason Troops are moved around are; "Guardians of the republic", and the Army's "History of the NCO Corps".

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 15 at 2018 3:41 PM

2018-10-15T15:41:12-04:00

In my 20 years I PCSd 8 times. It takes its toll on the family and the SM.