‘Elite’ military units: Army Rangers. I just read a soldier didn't have to go to Ranger School to be a Ranger. Is that true?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:33:04 -0500

This is from this article written by an Ex-Ranger. Some of the things he has written are confusing to me. Yesterday at our Veterans Day lunch I met a guy, wearing a leather vest with all of the Ranger tabs and the pins and buttons associated with the 75th Rangers. He said he was a LRRP, and got assigned to a Ranger unit, but never went to Ranger school. He said it was more like OJT. He didn't have Jump Wings. He did have the three medals a Vietnam veteran received, plus an Air Medal, but said he rarely flew in a helicopter, and when he did it was an H-13 scout helicopter.
For all of you Rangers out there, I'm asking if this guy could be for real or is an embellisher. He had a book written by a "friend" about his tour with the Rangers. It was inscribed to this guy and he showed us a page in the book, with, he says is his picture. lt was black and white, and faded. The guy he showed us was supposed to be him, didn't look anything like him. He talked a lot about his tour. He said their AO was in AnKhe. I got suspicious when he didn't answer some questions I asked about AnKhe. I hope I'm wrong. He seemed like a nice guy.
From the authors article:

Some who did serve in Ranger units never attended Ranger School and some who graduated from Ranger School, like me, never served in a Ranger unit. Ranger School graduation is not a prerequisite for serving in a Ranger unit, but it is a prerequisite for serving in a leadership position in a Ranger unit.
The Link:

http://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-blog-about-military-matters/65802307-elite-military-units-army-rangers

‘Elite’ military units: Army Rangers

Copyright John T. Reed I graduated from U.S. Army Ranger School in Ranger Class 3 in 1968 (August-September). I was awarded the Ranger Tab on the airstrip at Eg

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Nov 12 at 2015 12:39 PM

SSG Audwin Scott — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:39:45 -0500

Sounds like a fake to me and I am not a Ranger.

Response by SPC Tony Fewell made Nov 12 at 2015 12:53 PM

SPC Tony Fewell — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:53:47 -0500

I never was a Ranger, but it sounds fishy to me. If you have his name and info send it to Stolen Valor and they will check him out and see if he is legit or not.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Nov 12 at 2015 12:54 PM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:54:01 -0500

You don't get a Ranger tab without going to Ranger School. You can be assigned to a Ranger Batt and not be a Ranger (support roles). Definitely sounds suspicious, contact Stolen Valor and have those guys look into it...

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Nov 12 at 2015 12:54 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:54:35 -0500

Not sure....even Pres. Bush thinks this isn't true. Wonder what Sergeant Major thinks?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 1:07 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:07:40 -0500

Air Medal [Army] (1968-2006)[edit]
During the Vietnam War, the US Army awarded the Air Medal to Warrant Officer or Commissioned pilots and enlisted aircrew for actual flight time (awards were also made to infantry troops who flew on combat assault missions). This became a bureaucratic nightmare to correctly log because of the short flight time of typical helicopter flights. Later, an equivalent "flight hours" conversion was created and an award standard was set by individual commands. This eventually was standardized in theater to one award per every 24 "flight hours" logged.[7] A simplified set time was awarded depending on the type of mission, regardless of the actual flight time.[7] Administrative or VIP flights counted for 1/4 hour, regular duties (such as Visual Reconnaissance or Resupply) counted for 1/2 hour, and hazardous duties (combat assaults or extractions) counted for 1 hour. Pilots and aircrew could log over 1,000 "flight hours" a year and earn a 40 or higher numeral on their Air Medal ribbon. This was changed on 11 December 2006 to six months of meritorious service instead the number of flight hours.

So right there I am a little cautious about his accuracy about the Air Medal. As for the LRRP:

In February 1969, all US Army LRRP units were folded into the newly formed 75th Infantry Regiment (Ranger), a predecessor of the 75th Ranger Regiment, bringing back operational Ranger units for the first time since the Korean War. The Army had disbanded Ranger units after Korea, but kept Ranger School, on the premise that spreading Ranger School graduates throughout the Army would improve overall performance. The initial Ranger companies formed in 1969 were: "A" V Corps Rangers, Fort Hood, Texas; "B" VII Corps Rangers, Fort Lewis, Washington; "C" I Field Forces, Vietnam; "D" II Field Forces, Vietnam; "E" 9th Infantry Division, Vietnam; F 25th Infantry Division, Vietnam; "G" 23rd Infantry Division, Vietnam; "H" 1st Cavalry Division, Vietnam; "I" 1st Infantry Division, Vietnam; "K" 4th Infantry Division, Vietnam; "L" 101st Airborne Division, Vietnam; "M" 199th Light Infantry Brigade, Vietnam; "N" 173rd Airborne Brigade, Vietnam; "O" 3rd Brigade, 82nd Airborne Division, Vietnam; "P" 1st Brigade, 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized), Vietnam; "D/151" Indiana National Guard; and "F/425 " Michigan National Guard.[19][1]

BUT....If he did not attend the Ranger School, then he certainly could have been assigned to a Ranger unit, but he CERTAINLY should not be wearing that tab...even if it is on just a leather vest.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Nov 12 at 2015 1:10 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:10:43 -0500

Yes SGT Private RallyPoint Member one of my sons who was a junior enlisted infantry soldier went through the RIP was assigned to 3/75 Ranger Battalion. NCO's and Commissioned Officers within the Ranger Battalions are required to be Ranger School graduates; but, junior enlisted soldiers are not required. They need to complete the RIP program in order to be assigned to a Ranger Battalion.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 1:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:28:14 -0500

I know a few people who have been part of one of the Ranger battalions and deployed with them (authorize to wear their SSI-FWTS "Ranger Scroll") and never attended Ranger school. Ranger school does not make one a Ranger - it just makes that individual Ranger qualified. Going through RASP makes you a Ranger.

Regarding the actual line units in Ranger BNs - I would imagine if you want to stay in a line unit, you will have to go to Ranger school, get your tab and report back, in order to stay within regiment.

Along similar line of thought, I know people in SFOD-D who aren't long tabbers (Special Forces) - which it seems most people assume all SFOD-D personnel are prior SF.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 1:28 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:28:57 -0500

It is possible that this gentleman was a LRRP and did not attend Ranger School, but if so should not be wearing the Ranger Tab.
There are also "legs" in the Ranger Regiment, but not very many.
This one does not smell quite right, but I think it is more of a situation where he affiliates with the modern Rangers, but was not one himself.

I am reminded of when Jesse Ventura was called out for claiming to be a SEAL. He was a member of Underwater Demolitions Team (UDT) 12, which at the time was a different entity, later absorbed by the SEALs. In his case, he went to BUD/S like the SEALs, but was not on a team.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 1:29 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:29:59 -0500

I'm a Squid, so what do I know...maybe this guy was legit. Still, it sounds to me like very probably a story about a guy who was "somewhere" once with "someone", and in later years, decided that "entitled" him to wear their insignia. I served in the 82nd and 101st's "AO", went outside the "wire" with Infantry types, got trained while attached to the 1/5 FA, and even picked up a Group Three guy once while on convoy...but that doesn't mean I rate an Airborne unit's shoulder patch, crossed rifles, the Order of St. Barbara, or a Green Beret either.

As to the article, I can feel some of the guy's pain...I spent two tours at sea, earning not only the OOD Underway/ CICWO/ TAO/UI quals available to me, but completed the PQS for the SWO board as well. When it came my time at bat, the good folks at NAVPERS decided you had to be 1100 series to be "pinned" with the water wings, and wouldn't approve my re-designation from 1305. Oh well...I get the fun of explaining to other squids how an O-4 with the MSM doesn't have a pin all the time. Still, if I had been a Soldier, hadn't passed Ranger School, I don't think any act of "fiat" could get me to wear the tab.

Things would be a lot less confusing if we'd all just take pride in the very real accomplishments we earned and not those earned by others.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 1:34 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:34:45 -0500

Ranger School is just that, a school. It is not part of the elite Ranger Regiment. Those who graduate Ranger School call themselves "Rangers" but to the eyes of the Ranger Regiment, that does not qualify them to serve in the Ranger Regiment. Rangers go through RASP, Ranger Assessment and Selection Program before being assigned as a Ranger within the Ranger Regiment. Though the young Rangers have not gone through Ranger School, their gradation from RASP, subsequent assignment within the Regiment and conducting Special Operations missions is the true meaning of being an Airborne Ranger within our Army. The saying goes, "Ranger school is just a school. The Scroll is a way of life." So when you hear someone say they are a Ranger, the next question should be, "What Ranger Battalion did you serve in?" If they never served in Regiment and one of the Battalions, then they are just "Ranger school qualified" and never conducted special operations missions as a Ranger. I know this may cause heartache to those that call themselves Rangers when they go clubbing on a Friday night or say it to their girlfriends and family, but those are the facts.
Now those that served in Ranger units in Viet Nam are still considered Rangers to all of us. To this day, there are those who attend Ranger school and have never been to jump school. We call them, "leg Rangers."

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Nov 12 at 2015 1:50 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:50:43 -0500

Smells fishy. CPT Private RallyPoint Member might now more about Vietnam era Rangers.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Nov 12 at 2015 1:56 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 13:56:46 -0500

I am in no way an expert on any Special Forces but I think that guy is full of crap and he is probably old enough, Vietnam Veteran era, that people won't really question him.
From everything I heard any type of SOF unit you have to qualify in not only 1 school but multiple schools in many cases.
Again I am no expert but from what I know you don't become a Ranger through OJT.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Nov 12 at 2015 2:07 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:07:58 -0500

I worked around divers and jumpers while getting a secondary MOS. But, I would never dream of identifying myself as "RECON." Can't think the basic requirement to graduate Ranger School would be waived in lieu of OJT... regardless of the time period. Sometimes, we just want to believe our fellow man is telling the truth.

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 12 at 2015 2:44 PM

SPC David S. — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:44:58 -0500

Hope this helps - This is what I could come up with.

UNIT MAJOR COMMAND
Co. D, 17th Infantry, (LRP) V Corps Federal Republic of Germany
Co. C, 58th Infantry (LRP) VII Corps Federal Republic of Germany
Co. E, 20th Infantry (LRP) I Field Force Vietnam
Co. F, 51st Infantry (LRP) II Field Force Vietnam
Co. D, 151st Infantry (LRP) II Field Force Vietnam
Co. E, 50th Infantry (LRP) 9th Infantry Division
Co. F, 50th Infantry (LRP) 25th Infantry Division
Co. E, 51st Infantry (LRP) 23rd Infantry Division
Co. E, 52d Infantry (LRP) 1st Cavalry Division
Co. F, 52nd Infantry (LRP) 1st Infantry Division
Co. E, 58th Infantry (LRP) 4th Infantry Division
Co. F, 58th Infantry (LRP) 1O1st Airborne Division
71st Infantry Detachment (LRP) 199th Infantry Brigade
74th Infantry Detachment (LRP) 173rd Airborne Brigade
78th Infantry Detachment (LRP) 3rd Brigade, 82nd Airborne Division
79th Infantry Detachment (LRP) 1st Brigade, 5th Mechanized Division

These units were functional for the period of May 1965 through December 1967 in country. On February 1, 1969 the units were reorganized into the following - All Ranger under the 75th Infantry (later became 75th Ranger)

UNIT MAJOR COMMAND PERIOD OF SERVICE
Co A (Ranger),75th Infantry Ft Benning / Ft Hood 1 Feb. 1969 - 15 Oct. 1974
Co B (Ranger),75th Infantry Ft Carson / Ft Lewis 1 Feb. 1969 - 15 Oct. 1974
Co C (Ranger),75th Infantry I Field Force Vietnam 1 Feb. 1969 - 25 Oct. 1971
Co D (Ranger),151st Infantry II Field Force Vietnam 1 Feb. 1969 - 20 Nov. 1969
Co D (Ranger),75th Infantry II Field Force Vietnam 20 Nov. 1969 - 10 Apr. 1970
Co E (Ranger),75th Infantry 9th Infantry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 12 Oct. 1970
Co F (Ranger),75th Infantry 25th Infantry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 15 Mar 1971
Co G (Ranger),75th Infantry 23rd Infantry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 1 Oct. 1971
Co H (Ranger),75th Infantry 1st Cavalry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 15 Aug. 1972
Co I (Ranger),75th Infantry 1st Infantry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 7 Apr. 1970
Co K (Ranger),75th Infantry 4th Infantry Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 10 Dec. 1970
Co L (Ranger),75th Infantry 1O1st Airmobile Division 1 Feb. 1969 - 25 Dec. 1971
Co M (Ranger),75th Infantry 199th Infantry Brigade 1 Feb. 1969 - 12 Oct. 1970
Co N (Ranger),75th Infantry 173rd Airborne Brigade 1 Feb. 1969 - 25 Aug. 1971
Co 0 (Ranger),75th Infantry 3rd Brigade,82nd Abn. 1 Feb. 1969 - Division 20 Nov. 1969
Co P (Ranger),75th Infantry 1st Brigade, 5th Mech. 1 Feb. 1969 - Division 31 Aug. 1971

So if he was in one of the units after Feb. 1 of '69 he would be considered a Ranger without ever being tabbed. However all the leadership came from one of two schools Ranger or Recondo (Nha Trang or from Panama). In '67 the the Recondo school at Ft. Campbell converted to a provisional LRRP unit and deployed to Vietnam.

There were also the clandestine SR teams - Project Delta (Nha Trang), Omega (Nha Trang, and later at Ban Me Thout) and Sigma (Tu Duc). These guys also had Rangers -

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 2:48 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:48:03 -0500

My friend sent me this about him. I asked him to send me a picture, but if you are on FB, he is too. I'm not.
RAY ALLEN was the Ranger. He is on face book

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 2:50 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:50:01 -0500

Thanks to SSG Carlos Madden I can provide you with some help on this.

First off, there were no real ranger units at the start of the of the Vietnam War. The units that started in Korea by COL Puckett were gone. They were only used in that war and when it ended so did that.

So at the start of the of the war there was a need for specialized recon units. These would become the predecessor to the 75th Ranger RGT. They were known as by a few different names. They were either Long Range Recon Patrols (LRRP) or Long Range Patrol (LRP). They were call LURPs. Every Division had a company of them. I was an unit that would trace their lineage to a LURP unit. I was in F co, 51st Infantry, Long Range Surveillance, in OIF I.

This is where the issue of being a Ranger unit comes into play. They really weren't Ranger Units. They were Ranger-ish Units. They all had Ranger Scrolls and most were Ranger qualified. But all of the LRRP units were disbanded and turned into the 75th RGR RGT. So my company was F co 51st but was turned in P co, 75th RGR.

This coin shows the units and the scrolls they used. But the LRRPs were LRRPs. They are usually Ranger Qualified but if they were in a LRP unit they will claim that. It is rare to find LRP vets. It is possible to see a vet that was in a LRP unit and stay there when it become the 75th Ranger RGT.

But a give away of this is the Ranger Tab. No soldiers were given Ranger Tabs for serving in a Ranger unit or LRP unit. That just didn't happen. There was a standing Ranger School at that time and soldiers went. They even had a in country one that I have heard off. But the LRPs would turn into the Recondo School and would go there in addition to Ranger. LRPs or LRS as they call today didn't come back until the late 80's. So if you have a guy claiming to be a LRP anytime from 1970 and beyond until the late 80's he is lying. When the 75th came into all the LRP units were disbanded. Also I have never heard of a LRP or Ranger not being airborne. It was a preq for being in either LRPs or LRS. Even in units that were not Airborne the LRS units were airborne.

If you can send any info or what company he claimed to be from I can pinpoint this more.

I SERVED - SILENT VICTORY Home Page

This site is to promote the book, "I SERVED," written by Don C. Hall and Annette R. Hall, and the documentary, "SILENT VICTORY: The Story of Co. F, 51st Long Range Patrol (Airborne) Infantry," which they produced.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Nov 12 at 2015 3:16 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 15:16:10 -0500

I think today, they must be Airborne to be in the Regiments and one does not have to go to Ranger School to be in one of the Regiments...at least in the lower ranks.
I know it was...is (?)...possible to go to attend Ranger School without being Airborne.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Nov 12 at 2015 3:18 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 15:18:48 -0500

You can be assigned to a Ranger regiment without having gone to Ranger school but for those looking to make a career in the regiment you can't move up until you receive the tab.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Nov 12 at 2015 3:51 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 15:51:31 -0500

I don't believe that Roger's Rangers went to Ranger School...

Response by COL Sam Russell made Nov 12 at 2015 4:34 PM

COL Sam Russell — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 16:34:46 -0500

My best advice would be that, unless you are certain or have proof that he is faking, assume he is not. The one thing worse than someone stealing valor, is someone falsely accusing a vet of stolen valor. Don't be that guy or gal.

A Female Captain is Humiliated for 'Stolen Valor.' After Numerous Ugly Insults, the Truth Comes...

"You see that?? It's a kitchen. Get the f*** back into it."

Response by SCPO Joshua I made Nov 12 at 2015 5:00 PM

SCPO Joshua I — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 17:00:58 -0500

His comments about the SEALs are badly uninformed. Don't know about the rest.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 5:47 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 17:47:06 -0500

This article sounds like this guy is kind of a douche and also doesn't understand anything about Rangers or Ranger School. The school is a leadership school. Period. They use antiquated techniques like walking through the woods to assess your leadership ability. It still works. It's still hard.
He also doesn't seem to understand the term "elite". There are twice as many SEALS as Rangers; the Regiment is essentially three battalions and a support battalion. That makes them about the 0.3% of the Army.
As for the tab of the guy you mentioned, I would venture to guess it's actually a scroll which is the unit insignia as opposed to the the tab that is awarded at the school graduation. Both say Ranger on them. If he does have a black and gold tab, you can always call the S3 section of Ranger School and request a Tab Check and they will tell you if he ever earned a Ranger Tab.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 6:18 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 18:18:38 -0500

This guy reminds me of Ryan Payne. I actually served with him in my LRS company. He never went to Ranger School but did deploy as a scout. He would go on to tell people he was a Ranger and then got busted for doing that. If you had a pick of this guy it would help. But that Air Medal really has be thinking.

Ryan Payne the fake Ranger at Bundy Ranch

The Canada Free Press reports that Ryan Payne, the fellow we talked about yesterday who was head of security at the Bundy Ranch and claimed to be a Ranger w

Response by LTC Silviu Bora made Nov 12 at 2015 6:47 PM

LTC Silviu Bora — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 18:47:57 -0500

History of LRRP in Vietnam many of them wen to the school in Vietnam for LRRP but they were not designated as Rangers until y1969 so prior to that whey were LRRPs not rangers. Rangers were again called to serve their country during the Vietnam War. The 75th Infantry was reorganized once more, Jan. 1, 1969, as a parent regiment under the Combat Arms Regimental System. Fifteen separate Ranger companies were formed from this reorganization. Thirteen served proudly in Vietnam until inactivation, Aug. 15, 1972.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Nov 12 at 2015 10:57 PM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 22:57:03 -0500

SGT Private RallyPoint Member Interesting... Yes, absolutely.

Rangers in the US Army Trace their lineage to the The American Revolution - Rogers Rangers - and long before the Army started Ranger School. Modern Day Ranger units trace their roots to Merrill's Marauders and the WWII (D-Day) Ranger Battalions (Darby's and Rudder's Rangers). When I attended Ranger school their tag line was "from Normandy to Grenada Rangers Lead the Way."

1. The United States Army Ranger School is an intense 61-day combat leadership course oriented toward small-unit tactics. It has been called the "toughest combat course in the world" and "is the most physically and mentally demanding leadership school the Army has to offer". It is open to soldiers (commissioned officer, warrant officer, or enlisted), sailors, airmen, and Marines in the US Armed Forces, as well as allied military students.

Ranger training began in 1950 and has undergone multiple changes to its training regimen. A Desert Phase was employed for about a decade between the 1980s and 1990s. Its removal left the three phases used in the 21st century: (1) Darby, (2) Mountains, and (3) Florida.

2. The US Army Ranger Association says the following are eligible to be in this midst:

Who is eligible for membership?
We welcome as Regular Members all Rangers that have earned the U.S. Army Ranger tab, WWII Rangers, Korean War Rangers, Vietnam War Rangers, all Rangers that participated in Operations Urgent Fury, Just Cause, Desert Storm, Restore Hope, Enduring Freedom, and all Rangers who have served honorably for at least one year in a recognized Ranger unit. In addition, we welcome certain qualified individuals as Associate Members; and close family as Affiliate Members.

3. Modern Day Ranger School is run by TRADOC, not the Ranger Regiment, and is Ranger based small unit Leaders Course (finest and hardest we offer) that trains not only Soldiers for the Ranger Regiment but all Officers and NCOs for the rest of the Army. Every class roughly 60% non-Regiment troops (like me) who attend Ranger school and return to their units. Most classes have a ton of Infantry 2LTs, then some EN, AR, FA, etc., then some NCOs from those branches, and some Army and Joint special operators, a few allied troops, then the rest are young Soldiers from the Ranger Regiment who have earned the right to attend.

4. Today, a Soldier enlists in the Army as an 11X, with an option 40 contract, has the opportunity to attend Infantry OSUT, then Airborne School, the RASP (Ranger Assessment Selection Program). Others can be selected at OSUT based on merit. Upon completion of RASP, they earn their tan Beret and designated Army Rangers and assigned to one of 3 Ranger Battalions in the Regiment. Ranger Battalions are simply highly selective, highly resourced, and highly trained Light Infantry Battalions employed by USSOC for very specific and important/key missions. Eventually these young Soldiers earn the right to attend Ranger School.

So yes, in years past, and today a Soldier can be a Ranger, whether or not they attend the school. The school and Ranger are two separate and distinct things. Benning considers more to be Rangers, as does the Army, than the Regiment does.

Interesting discussion.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Nov 12 at 2015 11:15 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Thu, 12 Nov 2015 23:15:20 -0500

My uncle was in a LRRP unit in Vietnam. Halfway through his tour they reflagged to a Ranger Company. There was one company for each Division, I think he was in 4th ID's Ranger Company. He went to an in-country Recondo school that culminated with live patrols. He said when they reflagged morale went through the roof and the kills doubled.

Response by CPT Jim Schwebach made Nov 13 at 2015 10:47 AM

CPT Jim Schwebach — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:47:37 -0500

During the early years of the Vietnam era the only Rangers in any of the services(my class had both Marine Corps and Air Force(!) attendees) were Ranger school graduates. As the various reconnaissance units were formed they were known as LRRPs and only in the later years, as described in earlier posts, were their units designated as 75th Infantry(Ranger) units. During the periods I was in country(36 months between 1966 and 1970) I never heard LRRPs referred to as Rangers. The Projects did not refer to themselves as LRRPs or Rangers. The was, I believe, a LRRP company in C Co down in III Corps.

As to the Air Medal; I can only speak for the units i served with but in the Cav in 66-67 25 combat assaults qualified non air crew(Snuffies, Grunts, us) for the award of the Air Medal. In 5th Group the requirements varied but generally required air time equivalent to that required for air crew(If I recall insertions and extractions were counted based on flight time, no bonus for STABO). In '69-'70 the Americal Division's requirements for non air crew was 25 air assaults as it was in the Cav. In both the Cav and Americal only one Air Medal per tour could be awarded for CA's. In the Cav, qualifying for the Air Medal happened quickly, we sometimes did multiple CA's in a day. In the Americal it took months.

So a LRRP could have been awarded an Air Medal. And he is eligible to belong to the Ranger Association. And the LRRP companies usually had tabs(Not the Black and Gold) and since they change fro 51st, 52d and just letters to various companies of the 75th so he may possibly wear more than one tab on his vest or whatever.

In the end it's not the vest that will tell you if he's legit, it's the stories. The great recon teams never heard a shot fired at them, wasn't their job. But every recon guy has one story about running and most of those do involve shooting at one end of the run or the other.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2015 2:47 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 14:47:59 -0500

Ok. In this picture, he is at a reunion. He has Tee on with a "No Tab" logo. In this one, he is in Vietnam. At the restaurant his vest was full of scrolls and patches, and his vest had Ranger tabs and his cap says he is a Ranger. So, is he embellishing or not?

Response by SSG John Jensen made Nov 13 at 2015 6:41 PM

SSG John Jensen — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 18:41:20 -0500

"Dad" Reddeman (he was older(not much) and I was young) 1st tour in Vietnam was with 101st, 2d tour was with Rangers(he was just assigned there) no school. after break in service re-up, attempted Ranger school but was medicalled

Response by SSG John Jensen made Nov 13 at 2015 6:45 PM

SSG John Jensen — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 18:45:16 -0500

kinda maybe sounds like the difference between a member of the 82d and a 5-jump-chump??

Response by SSG Don Maggart made Nov 13 at 2015 10:15 PM

SSG Don Maggart — Fri, 13 Nov 2015 22:15:24 -0500

Never...laffs he's a Stranger

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2015 6:52 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Nov 2015 18:52:02 -0500

Just for the record I did some background work on Ray Allen. He is a real as them come. He was a LRRP and then a K company Ranger when they became the 75th. From what I found out only the senior leadership went to Ranger School. But soldiers that served in VN knew him by name. So he is the real deal. A lot of times it is hard to explain the transition of the LRRPs to the 75th.

The patch he is wearing is a custom unit patch the 4th ID LRRPs had. They are the only ones that used it and the only ones that knew about it. I didn't know of it. So for someone to have that patch it would pretty much mean he was there when they made it. It isn't something you buy online. It is a custom patch that the guys who were there only have.

Response by SSG Don Maggart made Dec 19 at 2015 1:47 AM

SSG Don Maggart — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 01:47:42 -0500

Sorry Bro took the hand me downs from my fathers father went and did the job required Never having accepted the "SCROLL" but the Take away from my training was Paragraph 1-1 of the Manual Leadership as for me Worldwide and a I kept the Spirit of Rogers and Merrill alive...laffs and farts in your general Direction... C/51 F Company if you want my lineage and honors....

Response by SGT Paul Mackay made Apr 14 at 2016 8:53 PM

SGT Paul Mackay — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 20:53:08 -0400

We didn't in vietnam

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2016 7:01 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 07:01:07 -0400

Yes he could have been telling the truth. Although, he should not consider himself a "Ranger". I was recruited by Co K (Rangers) 75th Inf first shirt from 4th ID replacement company. I was not a Ranger nor Airborne. I was an 11F40 Shake and Bake. After a few weeks of burning shit and enduring traditional leg harassment I went to Camp Radcliff Co K (Ranger) 75th Inf RECONDO PREPRATORY COURSE. I was the Honor Graduate beating out several Rangers on 31 July 1970. My certificate is signed by Cpt. Larry E. Penley. Then I went on several LRRP, Radio Relay... missions. So yes your friend could be telling the truth.

Response by Melissa Rene made Feb 8 at 2017 1:01 PM

Melissa Rene — Wed, 08 Feb 2017 13:01:30 -0500

http://www.75thrra.com/history/c75_hx.html

Lotsa good info here on the Ranger site below ...

I have family in nearly every war dating way back. My grandfather, William C. Walz Sr. is 101st Airborne in WW II, his son was a Ranger in Vietnam. :) In fact, after watching a special on Vietnam I thought I would come see what I could find on either of them here on the net out of curiosity ...

:)

C/75 RGR & E/20 LRP HISTORY

This history deals with the activities, personnel, and accomplishments of Company C (Ranger), 75th infantry during the period 1 February 1969 through October 1971, and Company E (Long Range Patrol) 20th Infantry (Airborne) from 25 September 1967 through 1 February 1969 which preceeded the designation of Company C (Ranger), 75th Infantry.

Response by SSG Robert Peterson made Nov 24 at 2018 2:03 PM

SSG Robert Peterson — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 14:03:53 -0500

Look up Gary Linder on FB, He's the " Go to" guy about all things Ranger

Response by Sgt John Koliha made Nov 24 at 2018 3:17 PM

Sgt John Koliha — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 15:17:13 -0500

In the Corps we don't have these kind of problems. We are just all of us and everyone a MARINE.