Earlier this month, Trump announced he is not interested in a new Air Force One. Do you think he understands why AF1 exists? Thoughts?

2016-12-12T13:31:44-05:00

Earlier this month, Trump announced he is not interested in a new Air Force One; Do you think he understands why AF1 exists? Thoughts?

http://townhall.com/columnists/bryancrabtree/2016/12/12/4-billion-air-force-one-nothing-but-a-cleanenergy-ruse-n2258523

Please be respectful to each other. All opinions welcome.

I can't help but think of the blow to the economy this would create and also wonder if new technologies are part of the new aircraft. Let's try to stay on topic of this decision about Air Force One. Thank you.

$4 Billion Air Force One Nothing But a Clean-Energy Ruse

With a single Tweet, Donald Trump brought attention to the Pentagons $2000 toilet in the sky.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Dec 12 at 2016 1:36 PM

2016-12-12T13:36:51-05:00

He understands, just attempting to get Boeing to come back to earth with their single source supplier pricing.

Response by SSG Wally Lawver made Dec 12 at 2016 1:51 PM

2016-12-12T13:51:27-05:00

Of course he knows, he didnt get this far by being dumb. Someone finally applying common sense with govt $$$$ and everyone loses their mind,,,,, Boeing needs to make a profit, but, a budget is a budget and how much profit do they really need??

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Dec 12 at 2016 1:54 PM

2016-12-12T13:54:11-05:00

He's not interested in another AF1 if it is going to to be at the cost of the tax payers. What I mean by that is that he does not want an AF1 that is way over budget. He does not mind if Boeing makes money on the deal just not an astronomical amount of money at the cost of the tax payers. He stated that if it is built he wants this to be watched carefully to keep it from cost overruns.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Dec 12 at 2016 1:57 PM

2016-12-12T13:57:23-05:00

This is a shot across the bow at both Boeing and the DoD. The cost overruns and final price tag for a fancied up 747 is over the top. I bet he pays less per copy when it is all said and done. This is how you start to change the mindset of both contractors and DoD employees that have done business the same way (and not necessarily in the best interest of the taxpayer) for too many years. Waste has to be squeezed out. Squeezing requires pressure, he is applying it.

Response by Maj Kim Patterson made Dec 12 at 2016 2:06 PM

2016-12-12T14:06:22-05:00

I live in an area where aircraft industries are what keeps the towns alive. Each day for decades, an employee gets up at 0300, drives a lot of miles, punches a time clock ticket and starts back to work installing each rivet, nut, bolt, wire, gizmo etc for 8-12 hours in a building with no heat or air conditioning and then clocks back out, puts the time card in the rack, trudges to a vehicle and goes home to pay bills. No job? No groceries, no dinner out, no purchases except essentials. This affects the local economy and then the national economy. The cascade affects multiple other jobs. Does this bring back jobs? Or does it add to the unemployment rolls?

Additionally, the current AF1s are aging, they are 30 years old. All of our major large aircraft are aging.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2016 2:12 PM

2016-12-12T14:12:00-05:00

Maj Kim Patterson He is taking a business approach to this and the F35 issue - convince him of the need, then come up with a fair cost for the product. The blow to the economy will be to allow runaway costs that are rubber stamped at the DoD and Congressional venues. Expect him to get pushback from the congressional reps whose districts are impacted by his initiative. Looks a lot like he is setting up for some serious "dealing" with those folks, and not just the contractors.

Response by Sgt Bruce C. made Dec 12 at 2016 2:17 PM

2016-12-12T14:17:27-05:00

So what does it cost Boeing to make this plane, with all of its special tricks and treats in it? I don't know and so its hard to say if this is an over the top cost.

I do think that with Trump in office, you will still see these types of over the top deals happening other places in government.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Dec 12 at 2016 2:21 PM

2016-12-12T14:21:03-05:00

I think He does understand but also understands the practice of making a bid then working the price up to make even more money for the contractor. The cost overruns need to be taken under control instead of assuming they can squeeze more money out of each and every contract. We have the problems in terms of finance due to Government constantly sticking their hands in our pocket like the well had no bottom. It has to stop !

Response by SP5 Mark Kuzinski made Dec 12 at 2016 3:11 PM

2016-12-12T15:11:16-05:00

Just his way of asking for a cost breakdown for the aircraft. I'm sure that he knows why we need AF1 and that the current ones are outdated.

Response by PO3 Ricky Foster made Dec 12 at 2016 3:21 PM

2016-12-12T15:21:29-05:00

I thought he only had concerns over price, not that he didn't want it. Last article I read is Boeing was going to cut cost and all was well. The Article was well written and contained many things I had never heard before. TY.

Response by Maj Kim Patterson made Dec 12 at 2016 4:55 PM

2016-12-12T16:55:31-05:00

This is from a similar thread that did not show up when I posed my question.

Trump Tweets US Should Cancel Air Force One Replacement
Posted from defensenews.com
WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald Trump on Tuesday said he wants to cancel the plan for a new Air Force One design.

At 8:52 a.m. EST, Trump tweeted: “Boeing is building a brand new 747 Air Force One for future presidents, but costs are out of control, more than $4 billion. Cancel order!”

The US Air Force selected Boeing to design the next presidential transport aircraft in 2015. The company has put forth a heavily modified 747-8 design, and the service intends to have two of the new Air Force Ones flying by 2024.

While based on an existing design, the price for an Air Force One are massive compared to what a basic 747-8 commercial jet would cost, due to the electronic suites and defensive systems needed on the presidential plane.

Boeing's stock closed Dec. 2 at $152.25, and opened Dec. 5 at $153.24, closing that day at $152.16. As of 12:33 a.m. EST on Dec. 6, the stock sat lower at $151.45 .

Todd Harrison, a budget expert with the Center for Strategic and International Studies, responded to Trump’s tweet: “To be clear, it's $4B for two planes that operate as a flying command post for POTUS in a national emergency, have EMP protection, etc.”
Harrison later noted that the Air Force's budget plan shows $2.9 billion in research, development, test and evaluation funding through fiscal 2021. Procurement is expected to come in at about $1 billion, getting essentially to the $4 billion figure cited by Trump.
An Air Force spokesman said the service has budgeted $2.7 billion, "but expect this number to change as the program matures with the completion of the risk reduction activities."

Boeing released a statement Tuesday, saying: "We are currently under contract for $170 million to help determine the capabilities of these complex military aircraft that serve the unique requirements of the President of the United States. We look forward to working with the U.S. Air Force on subsequent phases of the program allowing us to deliver the best planes for the President at the best value for the American taxpayer."
Leanne Caret, president and CEO of Boeing’s Defense, Space & Security arm, said in a Dec. 3 interview with Defense News TV that she is confident in how the program is moving along.

“We’re working currently with the customer on their aircraft procurement and on the actual outfitting of the aircraft,” Caret said. “It’s very exciting to be part of this history and this legacy.”

For more from Caret, watch the Dec.18 edition of Defense News TV.

For the record, Trump has not always been critical of Boeing's work. Looking at previous tweets, the next president has recommended Boeing as a stock several times and praised the company's 757 design.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2016 5:47 PM

2016-12-12T17:47:43-05:00

The planes run about 360 million a piece, load it down with communications, EMP and chem/bio protective equipment and replace a lot of heavy stuff with lighter stuff to improve fuel efficiency and allow the plane to stay in the air longer. Ok, so double the price of the plane to 720 million each. I'm no Trump fan, however he seems to have a valid point... why in the heck are taxpayers likely to pay 2 billion per aircraft when a new 747-800 runs around 360 million?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2016 11:49 PM

2016-12-12T23:49:47-05:00

I think he knows. Part of it could be that he is going to use this as a way to push for a better deal down the road and maybe force competition and also it could be that he wants to use his own jet over AF1. Of course I can only speculate but that's what I think it likely is.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Dec 13 at 2016 10:03 PM

2016-12-13T22:03:00-05:00

He appears to be shotgunning comments without any rhyme or reason and once again no facts to back him up. He is still playing to the base as if he is pandering for votes. This kind of rhetoric is dangerous as people made decisions and take actions based on what POTUS says. Running off at the mouth on a whim shows an absolute lack of clear thinking.

Response by Maj John Bell made Dec 14 at 2016 5:06 AM

2016-12-14T05:06:54-05:00

I have never understood the American desire of "new for newness sake." Does anyone believe that the money not spent on two new Air Force 1's will not be spent somewhere else?

Is the old airframe safe?
Does the old airframe support the "presidential support packages" necessary to support the president?
Is the cost of maintaining the old frame less than the cost of a new airframe?
Has some threat developed to Air Force 1 that only a new airframe will mitigate?
etc. etc. etc.

I guess I am the wrong guy to ask. I have been driving for 40 years. I am on my third truck. I never owned a new truck and I've been able to maintain them long enough to get them over 350,000,000 miles. I only have 160,000 miles on the truck I have now.

Response by RDML Bob Frick made Dec 15 at 2016 12:48 PM

2016-12-15T12:48:05-05:00

This is a no brainer. Every administrtion attempts to send a message and beat up eiter imdustry or any one of the acquisition authorities. Congress and the Commtties, the Adminisation, the Cabinet member or nominee simply asks the staff "Give me a list of majormacquisition progamsm that I could review for cancellation as a message tht I will be tough on them" Examples:
A-12
C-17
Seawolf
Virginia
Osprey
JPATs