During your service, did you ever get into trouble for doing the right thing? If so, did it effect how you viewed the military?

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Sun, 28 May 2017 09:17:06 -0400

I vividly remember my time as a Unit Armorer. I was a stickler for following the regs because it was the most responsibility I had ever had up until that point. I actually told the SCO, SXO, CSM, OPSOIC, and OPSSGM, that they had to sign out, clean, and return their own weapons. I was chewed out even though it was in the regs. It forever changed how I viewed senior leadership from that point on.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made May 28 at 2017 9:42 AM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Sun, 28 May 2017 09:42:40 -0400

SGT Joseph Gunderson roger that, when I was the S3 NCOIC in Afghanistan in August 2013. I had a stubborn inexperience OIC who was incompetent and couldn't make a call to turn the convoy around because he couldn't make a judgement call. For me it was easy, lack of route security bring them back. I had been out there before, after the Command Sergeant Major made the call after my advice. He despised me the rest of the tour for that decision. The Chain of Command had my back. I did not view the military any different, however I knew it was a uphill battle going forward and finally retired after 25 years and 3 days.
LTC Stephen F. LTC Stephen C. ] MSG Andrew White SGT Private RallyPoint Member SFC Dave Beran SP5 Robert Ruck SGT Philip Roncari SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SFC Shirley Whitfield MSgt George Cater SP5 Michael Rathbun CW5 Private RallyPoint Member SGT Michael Thorin

Response by SFC Dave Beran made May 28 at 2017 10:32 AM

SFC Dave Beran — Sun, 28 May 2017 10:32:32 -0400

Yes and no. Yes I got in trouble. No it did not affect how I felt.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made May 28 at 2017 10:38 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Sun, 28 May 2017 10:38:58 -0400

I refused to put an out of rating period bullet on an NCOER at the request of the Senior Rater (my Rater). The consequence was the worst NCOER of my career --- Didn't change how I viewed the Army. Didn't seem to impact the career either. ;-) In the end, do the right thing...you have to live with yourself a lot longer than with the military.

Response by SP5 Michael Rathbun made May 28 at 2017 10:42 AM

SP5 Michael Rathbun — Sun, 28 May 2017 10:42:51 -0400

On a field problem in Germany in 1969, I was in charge of a maintenance team supporting Corps HQ communications. Hanging around in the switch hut late one night, I heard the arty CO lamenting his commo problems -- equipment failures and backlogs in the maintenance facilities attached to his command. I found out that what he needed was what I had -- my team wasn't busy because we were really good at what we did, and our spares were at full load. I suggested that he have his folks bring the most critical items to my shop, we'd fix them for him, and work out all the logistic details when the exercise concluded.

My OIC found out about this and was furious. He apparently had some sort of political feud with somebody in the Signal chain over at Corps, and reamed me out, absolutely forbidding me to take on any work for Artillery. Deciding that it was time for malicious obedience, I interpreted his remarks to mean "don't accept any more broken equipment" rather than "don't finish the work you have taken in".

He found out about that, too. When we returned from the field, my Company CO called me in to inform me that my OIC had put me in for a Field Grade Article 15, asking for the max -- reduction to E3, six months forfeiture of all pay and allowances, six months confinement to quarters. Obviously my wife would be going back to CONUS -- as an E5 I was AUTH TO RAT SEP.

It was a glum week, and I was not happy to hear my name called out at the Friday formation. Front & Center I went. With a bit of a grin the Company CO presented me with a letter of commendation from Corps CG. Citing the very activities for which I had been sent up for a FG max. There was also a letter from the Bn CO. Apparently the note from the CG and my OIC's Art 15 request hit his desk at roughly the same moment.

My well-connected OIC got what he thought was appropriate revenge. One of his beer buddies ran the levy roster, and I received PCS orders for Viet-Nam, such that my first day in country would be exactly 365 days before the end of my enlistment.

It turned out that this was actually doing me a favor, in the long run -- the German Mark had been pegged at DM4 = US$1 up until the month of my PCS. Overnight my living expenses nearly doubled. Wife would have had to go back home regardless.

Then, in Viet-Nam I asked a three-star general, in public, why it was easier and cheaper for an enlisted man to buy a four-day supply of almost pure heroin than it was to obtain a fifth of Four Roses. But that's another story.

EDIT to add: this didn't change my attitude toward the Military. It just made me more determined to be sand in the gears whenever the Military wasn't living up to its own standards.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 28 at 2017 12:45 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 28 May 2017 12:45:51 -0400

"It forever changed how I viewed senior leadership from that point on."
So If I caught a 19D Sergeant stealing, DUi, cheating on his spouse, shaming in the platoon room vice with his crew in the MP changing track or some other negative behavior it should have "forever changed how I viewed 19D Sergeants"?

Yes there are, were, still are leaders that think their too important, to busy to draw their own weapon, clean it ect..... Their wrong, acknowledge that vow to not be like them and move on.

When I was in HHBN, the instructions were clear to the Armorer if the SM is not assigned by MTOE an enlisted and officer aids, they draw their own weapon.

Now turn in is different, very common for crews with more equipment than personnel to multi task, to divide and conquer. Driver is focused on vehicle after ops, his weapon is taken by the gunner to be cleaned...Veh TC cleans his own, but likely hands off to gunner to turn in. Other crew members if present group up on crew served, then as each crew member is done the assigned individual tasks, they regroup and assist with crew served weapons.... or perhaps vehicle maint if its track related

Response by SFC Thomas Butler made May 28 at 2017 1:00 PM

SFC Thomas Butler — Sun, 28 May 2017 13:00:49 -0400

Anyone who's spent more than a year in a leadership position has run into this issue. Mine included being told to have my Medic deny treatment to a severly burned little girl (I said my radio was not working), being denied water for my Soldiers from a CSS unit which had two water buffalos full (800 gallons), and being ordered to go up an unsecure route, with known enemy activity, with limited assets to secure a piece of equipment which was not needed. All you can do is what is correct according to your sense of duty. That's why you're in the leadership position in the first place.

Response by PFC Jonathan Albano made May 28 at 2017 11:57 PM

PFC Jonathan Albano — Sun, 28 May 2017 23:57:13 -0400

It happened a few times to me. One of the most notable was when my company commander at the time (He was a ways away from me at the time so I didn't realize who it was and, since all I could see as his back, I couldn't see rank either.) was running through a marked off ceremony area and I was there to observe the ceremony, correct any discrepancies, and to not allow anybody into the ceremony area that wasn't a participant. I yelled for him to get out of the ceremony area. To his credit, he did however, he immediately came over to me visibly fuming and started chewing me out for not showing proper respect to a superior. As soon as I knew who it was I simply saluted and said "Sir, I meant no disrespect. I am under orders from the Base Commander to not allow anybody into the ceremony area while retreat is being conducted." The worst part is that it wasn't that long before this situation that we were in formation and the very same Company Commander had specifically told us not to do the very thing I caught him doing. I never had a bad view of the Army. What I held issue with was Soldiers at all rank levels who didn't want to live by the Army's values. While such soldiers are in the minority, it only takes a few to ruin it for all.

Response by SSG David Fetty made May 29 at 2017 12:55 PM

SSG David Fetty — Mon, 29 May 2017 12:55:39 -0400

Late October, 1973 I was acting as unit armorer, when a SFC woke me and demanded I open the arms room, and issue all our TOW weapons to an unknown Major, and they were going to Depot Maintenance. HUH? 0200 and he wants to take off with our TOW? NOT gonna happen. It took some time before the CO could make it to Coleman and sign off on an authorization for me to release them. I figured out a few days later why they were going to "maintenance" while watching the news of the Yom Kipper war.

2nd situation, I had a squad out on Recon during an FTX @ Campbell. While we were patrolling, the unit was hit, and fell back approx. 12 mile to a new assy area. I'm lazy and didn't really feel like walking that much farther, so I started looking at vehicles to confiscate from the Aggressors, with out too many problems. Had a nice 2 1/2 ton selected, when suddenly this Huey with two pax and crew landed. Change objective, climb on, display a K Bar, and told them to Pull pitch. Radio conversation, this was the Bde Cdrs bird. After a few words, the Col showed up, I explained my reasoning, and he allowed us to fly. HOWEVER.... during the flight I was handed a head set and told they could drop my guys, but I needed to go with them. Ended up speaking to the Div Cdr, heels locked by a 2 star for about 20 minutes, explaining that the OPFOR were supposed to be east Germans, I spoke German, and it seemed the most expedient way to depart. 20 minutes I KNEW I was going slick sleeved and headed for jail. He finally relieved me. I saluted, did a smart about face, counting my blessings, and departed. About 5 steps out of his sight, he called out "SSG Fetty, keep up the good work", and when I looked back, there was a grin on his face. That's when I realized there's a reason for official actions, and a time for "attaboys" for initiative

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made May 29 at 2017 1:09 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Mon, 29 May 2017 13:09:19 -0400

W'hen you don't do the right thing, that's when it will come back to bit you in the ass. When you stick to your guns, obeying your orders, you are right, you are clear. I once wouldn't let the Commanding officer of an operation into the TOC because he didn't have a TOC pass. I was following the orders given me. He just stood there as I refused to let him pass. All his "Aids" were trying to get him passed me, but failed. It ended up a CPT had to sign him in on a visitor pass until the CDR got his TOC pass. The CDR never once said anything to me, but he could have if I had let him pass. Do what's right, you can't go wrong.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2017 12:18 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 May 2017 00:18:12 -0400

Hell yes! Many of the higher ups (not all) are more worried about saving face rather than looking at a situation at face value. Just like an E5 Sergeant, an O6 Colonel does not want to be standing in front of their superior officer explaining a situation in which they know nothing about. So, instead of doing the right thing, "Roger Ma'am/Sir, let me get the details and speak with said individual. I will report back immediately upon the completion of my findings.", they fire a heat round with ZERO facts. Many of us have sacrificed so much, much more than some may realize. Some Soldiers deserve at least the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. Just my thoughts

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made May 30 at 2017 3:46 PM

SPC Steven Depuy — Tue, 30 May 2017 15:46:40 -0400

worked for a Master Sgt who was banging another guys wife, and tried to get me to hookup with another one. I forced a transfer from brigade HQ duty back to my unit. I got a sub par evaluation rating (can't remember what it was called, its been 38 years) and my new unit hated me cause they did not have me the first 18 months, and even though I excelled at most everything they had me due, they hated me. Gee, all I had to do was commit adultery and my career would have been fine.

Response by Maj John Bell made Apr 21 at 2018 5:05 PM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 17:05:38 -0400

Yes, I had presented a cost saving idea to my Company CO. He explained why and I think everyone standing in front of a TV camera would say his reasons were fiscally irresponsible. At a HHQ Conference the Battalion CO said if we had any ideas how to save the battalion money, he wanted to hear them.

My FitReps were "adequate" for the remainder of the tour. Plus every piece of paper that required a CO's endorsement in my ORB had included negative comments. I could not rebut endorsements. Fortunately, the reviewing officer could. My Company CO went on to his next illustrious tour as a field grade officer serving in a low visibility Captain's slot. Then He became an Ex-Marine (there's always an exception.)

As for me, I swore I'd never serve under another jackass again. The next time I ran into one I left the service.