During times of harsh fiscal cutbacks, why are single sailors and airmen still authorized to move off base and receive BAH w/o?

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 05:26:14 -0500

I find it concerning that all single E4's in the Air Force and Navy are authorized (practically encouraged) to move out of barracks upon promotion.

1. The majority of these individuals (not all) lack the maturity and responsibility required to successfully transition to an independent and healthy lifestyle.

2. Our Military simply cannot afford it. We are cutting good people and reducing our hard earned benefits.

The Marine Corps does it much differently in that only single E6 and above are authorized BAH W/O unless barracks occupancy surpasses 95% for that installation.

I think there is a happy middle ground here where only those that are top performers earn this as a reward vice it being handed out to all.

What are your thoughts?

Response by PO1 John Miller made Dec 30 at 2015 5:32 AM

PO1 John Miller — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 05:32:57 -0500

I've always been under the understanding that it was for E-4 & above. Plus, I've always felt that single members who do live in the barracks aren't given a chance to show "maturity and responsibility" when they are constantly being treated like children (room inspections) and inmates ("fire drills" at 0200, a personal experience).

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 6:43 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 06:43:54 -0500

I find it disturbing that the Department of Defense still promotes institutionalized discrimination against unmarried Servicemembers (or, more accurately, those without dependents). Since when has being married (or having dependents) been a justifiable legal qualification for better treatment? How has DoD gotten away with discrimination against single Servicemembers (or those without dependents) for so long? In your logic, being married automatically equates to more maturity and responsibility? So, the minute before someone gets married, they aren't mature and responsible, but the minute they sign a document they are more mature and responsible? Really?

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Dec 30 at 2015 6:52 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 06:52:17 -0500

1) I believe the USAF does lodging different. They just don't build as much. If there aren't barracks available, they shift personnel to the outside community.

2) "If these individuals lack maturity and responsibility required for an independent and healthy lifestyle" they shouldn't be serving. They're not children. They're grown adults, who swore to serve our nation, and potentially give their lives for it. The only way they are going to learn financial freedom is if we teach them financial freedom.

3) One of the flaws our Marine Corps has is treating Marines up through the rank of Sergeant as though they need to be "babysat" with constant supervision in a barracks. This drives younger Marines to ill-prepared marriage, to escape barracks life. A financial situation far worse than just living in an apartment alone. Although there are HUGE advantages of having our troops readily available for recall, which is the primary reason to have a barracks, which I do not discount, the cost benefit is a secondary concern beyond that.

4) Budgets for housing should expand and grow as our force expands and grows. That should be a Congress level issue. Therefore BAH is actually the BEST way to deal with this as opposed to having barracks & housing on bases. Those are "fixed" overhead resources which take budget and cannot be reclaimed during drawdown, and cannot be expanded during expansion.

I understand where you are going with this, however, I believe you are thinking of these individuals not as Adults, and these Resources not in Economic terms, but in a more traditional pen & paper budgetary way.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 6:56 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 06:56:25 -0500

1) They are grown adults now and we need to remember that and treat them as such. We are not their parents. While I'm all for helping them succeed, I have never bought into the "we need to treat them like they are our children" belief (just look at how many successful college students out there making it work and I don't want to sell our Amn short) and 2) From my understanding it is actually cheaper to have them live off base (I'm not sure if this is tied into "different pots of money" issue).

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 7:35 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 07:35:54 -0500

From my experience with the Navy they determined living off base based upon barracks occupancy percentage. When I was in Japan a single E-6 was not able to move out to the economy due to our percentage being low. I didn't even get authorized until I had made E-5. And our normal rule for E-4's was greater than 4 years in.

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Dec 30 at 2015 7:53 AM

PO2 Mark Saffell — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 07:53:26 -0500

Guess it was different when I was in. I was an E-5 and expected to live on the ship. It took an act of Congress to get to live off base/ship and if you aren't married it was nearly impossible to get BAH

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Dec 30 at 2015 7:57 AM

SCPO Jason McLaughlin — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 07:57:01 -0500

"1. The majority of these individuals (not all) lack the maturity and responsibility required to successfully transition to an independent and healthy lifestyle."

Why is there this movement across all services to make signing the enlistment contract and taking the Oath of Enlistment the last time we treat servicemembers like adults until they hit some random rank or age?

If someone is mature enough to make the life decision to serve his/her country and possibly lay down their lives, then they are mature enough to be afforded the opportunity to live on their own.

Hold the people who can not handle the responsibility accountable (what a word!!!!!). Sometimes good leadership is allowing people the opportunity to fail.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 8:43 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 08:43:47 -0500

I think when it's all said and done, we'd be better off to require all E4 and below w/o dependents...and all O3 and below w/o dependents...to live on base/aboard ship. I know if I could go back in time, I'd keep my happy arse on the "houseboat" and save that cash.

it's a hard sell...but I don't know many who lived the life who don't agree.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Dec 30 at 2015 8:55 AM

LTC Bink Romanick — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 08:55:20 -0500

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member I started in the Army when the troops lived in the barracks in squad bays with single NCOs living in cadre rooms. In the late sixties, the new barracks were divided into rooms. Very few single junior enlisted were authorized to live on the economy. We've made the Army more "friendly" with decent pay and benefits but at huge cost to the budget. Once you let the genie out of the bottle, you can't get him back in. Once we reduce benefits we affect retention.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 9:01 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 09:01:33 -0500

I was a 21 year old E-3 in the Air Force and was asked to move off-post within 30 days of arrival at Tinker AFB. I handled it. Like a boss.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 9:33 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 09:33:12 -0500

I find it concerning that someone would consider targeting our junior enlisted to deal with harsh financial cutbacks. I refuse to believe that's where we save some cash--by stripping the benefits that only some service members receive.

Additionally, in the AF you don't get to move off base the minute you promote to E-4. You need to be an E-4 with 3 years TIS and have your CoC's support. I believe this is more than fair. If a member isn't ready to move off base their chain can stop it.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 9:57 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 09:57:09 -0500

The AFI 32-6005 covers this in detail on what general rules that have to be done before they can move off. From my point of view if I can trust a 22 year old with a pilots life on day to day maintenance on aircraft, have him work 12 hour shifts, miss meals to accomplish the mission he should be able to take care of paying bills. We also have most airmen give there supervisor a budget and from there talk with them to understand what is needed and if they have an issue to bring it up. I think that there should not be a different rate for being single or married I do understand why but I know a ton of people that just got married to move out of the dorm/more money so it caused undue stress.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 30 at 2015 4:01 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 30 Dec 2015 16:01:42 -0500

Do the single SMs receive BAH at sea?

Response by PO3 David Fries made Dec 31 at 2015 6:35 AM

PO3 David Fries — Thu, 31 Dec 2015 06:35:52 -0500

These are all hindsight, but I believe that any soldier/sailor/airman/Marine should take a financial responsibility class before being allowed to live off base. Then the command should monitor said individuals finances for the 6 months following to make sure they are able to maintain the arrangements. Yes, it is a lot of work. However, sealing for myself, this would have certainly been helpful.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jan 1 at 2016 3:39 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 03:39:15 -0500

Wisdom comes from experience.
Experience is another name for mistakes.
They will gain wisdom and maturity by living independently and making the usual mistakes.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made May 22 at 2018 10:56 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Tue, 22 May 2018 22:56:23 -0400

Where I was at in Va., my base said I was authorized to live off base.. I was on RDF
Rapid Deployment Force.. apparently s’body didn’t inform base housing. Langley area was expensive.. I was in a trailrer I fixed inexpensively with physical help from Red Horse engineer friends.. l
Purchased what I needed from List they
Did. I had my bills as my prioof.. s’one accuses me of misappropriation of gov’t funds... the only thing I used was Red Horse engineer troops on their time..
when finished, inside looked almost new..
a new porch, mini deck outside.. new base
Guards around bottom of trailer with hinges to lift like doors.. new shed..
landlord gave me back 6 months rent
And I moved back on base.. she got a reconditioned trailer.. there’s a lot of jealous people out in the world.. only because they can’t manage their funds

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made May 22 at 2018 11:21 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Tue, 22 May 2018 23:21:59 -0400

After return’g from off base living(my section wanted me readily available for deployment(I wAs a team leader for a group.. Then they rotated the groups..
after redeploy, Alpha became Charlie team, bravo moved to Alpha and Charlie became bravo. .. for next deploy.. it was nice being SSG, no roomy.. I had end room which was larger by a foot wider.
Billeting ran the bks. Some AMN left me a note to put the 2d bed back in the rm.
I did... in the locker, the frame went under my bed.. Cmdr was ok with it.. 6 mo later a inventory inspection... where was the bed? I showed them ... nope, had to be put together and ready for an occupant.. new rule? No re-enforcing an old rule ! AFR xxxx-xx .. so I put it together.. they inspected a month later.
And a month after that I made my bed into a double.. they never came back... passed my room to another SSGT. I retired.. let them deal with it!

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Jul 2 at 2018 8:08 PM

PO1 Tom Follis — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 20:08:00 -0400

Since when did single service members start receiving BAH? I always thought that went to married members or single members with children.

Response by SSG Thomas Trutt made Dec 13 at 2018 9:09 AM

SSG Thomas Trutt — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 09:09:57 -0500

I absolutely think that there is a solution, but nobody would like it. Completely eliminate BAH and raise pay for all service members. Provide barracks at a low rent for those who want to stay and keep command out of the management of the barracks (i.e. treat it as a privately managed apartment managed by an outside contractor subject to civilian laws and standards). Charge a fee to organizations for the right to operate on a military base and hold them to strict standards subject to fines.
The reason nobody would like this is that in order to keep costs roughly the same, the net increase in pay would be lower than what people would lose in BAH. So a young, single service member might go from $2000 a month to $2600 a month, while a junior NCO might go from $3000 a month pay and $1000 BAH to a total of $3800 in compensation.

Now I know a lot of people are going to say - "well then we'll have single soldiers getting evicted, or getting in trouble with drugs/alcohol, or living like animals, etc". I say that if your leadership of your people falls apart the second you don't have complete control of them then you were never leading them to begin with.