Double Standards in Units: What are your thoughts on this, and does your unit have them?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 01:30:07 -0400

Last drill I witnessed a specialist have his hair forcibly shaved because his hair was "out of regs" but when said specialist mentioned that an E-6 female also had hair out of regs nothing was done to correct her. What are your thoughts on double standards in units and does your unit have them?

Response by SPC Carl K. made Apr 25 at 2015 1:34 AM

SPC Carl K. — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 01:34:58 -0400

My gut tells me that if this is true, there is a fear of an EO complaint if the female soldier is reprimanded over the hair regs. Perhaps I am paranoid, but I have a feeling I am on the right track.

Response by PO1 John Meyer, CPC made Apr 25 at 2015 7:06 AM

PO1 John Meyer, CPC — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 07:06:04 -0400

SPC... This isn't just an Army thing nor is it just a military thing. Double standards exist across all branches of the military and both in the military and outside of the military.

Juniors are corrected for uniform infractions like you mention while senior are not for the same infraction.

A person that's been working at the company for years is late to work and little is said. The new guy is late and the next thing he knows, he's being written up for it.

In a more extreme case, Timothy Geithner doesn't pay his taxes, yet is made Secretary of the Treasury; the same branch of the federal government that is responsible for its income (taxes). Meanwhile, a person like you or I would have gone to jail for doing the same thing.

Double standards exist; it's a fact of life. That doesn't make it right because it's not, but it does exist.

In your case, I'm sure it was the old "rank has it privileges" and has very little to do with the fact that the E-6 was a female.

The best thing you can do at this point is to take this as a lesson learned so when you become the senior, you won't make this double standard mistake and will correct an individual regardless of their rank or position.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Apr 25 at 2015 8:54 AM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 08:54:31 -0400

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, the standard is the standard. It is defined by Army Regulations, and enforced through command and general authority. There is no place for double standards in any unit because it takes away from good order and discipline and is the seed that can spawn rifts in unit cohesion. Does it happen? Yes. Have I witnessed it at times over my career? Yes. The best thing to do is be the standard bearer. That is a job that is not for everyone. The standard bearer is at times "unliked" and even ridiculed. However, it is a role that we should all strive to attain. If something is wrong, it is wrong for everyone. That is the only way that we as Leaders can ensure a single standard is expected, enforced, and met.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 9:07 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 09:07:21 -0400

Every unit has double standards. I could go on for hours with stories, but I won't.

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Apr 25 at 2015 10:24 AM

CW5 Jim Steddum — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:24:48 -0400

Forcibly shaved? I have a feeling that EO is the least of your units problems...

Response by PO2 Barry Baker made Apr 25 at 2015 10:36 AM

PO2 Barry Baker — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:36:35 -0400

Go and report this to your nearest JAG officer ASAP!

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Apr 25 at 2015 2:47 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 14:47:59 -0400

Right or wrong men are often extremely hesitant to correct female grooming issues.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 3:01 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 15:01:20 -0400

SPC Cody Voye,
Where do I start? Oh, from the top:
1- SPC's hair is out of regs and you witnessed his hair forcibly shaved. I'm guessing you were going "for effect" with that statement. The job of a Lower Enlisted is to execute an Order, nothing more. There's no need to use "Force" in getting a SPC, better yet any lower rank personnel to do anything, we all have to comply with a "lawful order" (see meaning of lawful order).

SSG James J Palmer IV said it best, there's one standard and it's the Army Standard.
The SPC could request to speak to his First Line Leader (in private), and bring his grievances and concerns of a double standard. Every good Leader will make every effort to not allow perception of wrongdoing destroy Troop morale.

2- I agree with CW4 Jim Steddum's words that an EO complaint may be in the works. Especially when an E-6 hair is so "out of regs" that an E-4 can pick up on it. Contact your EO rep, it should be posted in a conspicuous place in your unit (generally the info boards) and explain your issues.
By the way, That E-4 must really be in the weeds of DA PAM 670-1 and fully understand both the male and female hair standards...I'm just saying!

3- I think it's about time you start considering finding a new Reserve Unit...this one seems full of drama. Agreeing that you will encounter "toxic leadership" in al branches of the military, but yours seem to be a monthly topic.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 5:03 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 17:03:04 -0400

This can happen from time to time. We have to look to our NCOs for enforce this evenly. If this was an issue at a unit I would seek the assistance of the CSM.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 6:52 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 18:52:58 -0400

Anyone can make an on spot correction. As a female, I always correct females.