Does "war" in general create glamorized, perfect warriors and non-glamorized, imperfect family/mothers/children (in the same world)?

PO3 Aaron Hassay — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 04:52:28 -0500

How many other Vietnam Combat Vet Children are their out there like me born to a dad falling apart leaving young mom's w/no VA support into poverty confusion to look forward?

I read a lot of Baby Boomers were raised by untreated PTSD WW2 Soldier Sailors in cold not so caring homes.

I think the fabric of any country is healthy parenting.

I do not blame the SM.

Do leaders realize the casualty?

Response by CW2 Donald Kempf made Dec 31 at 2016 5:39 AM

CW2 Donald Kempf — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 05:39:07 -0500

War just sucks in general.

I'm a baby boomer and a child who grew up in the 60s watching the Vietnam war on TV. I can remember the National News announcing the daily body counts and I could never understand why we were fighting that war. I think the amount of news coverage that war got and it's lack of popularity definitely made Vietnam a NON_GLAMORUS war. Most soldiers who came back and weren't excessively traumatized, generally didn't talk a lot about the war. The ones with PTSD, they had it rough and so did their families. So much about that war people and the government tried to just ignore and sweep under the rug.

I was pretty fortunate in that my war service was pretty benign (GWI) but we had our PTSD casualties too. They got better treatment than those from previous wars because PTSD had become a validated illness and it is generally "Acceptable". In the 60s soldiers were baby killers and anyone with PTSD was pretty much assumed to have "Done Something" or they were branded a coward. I didn't blame a lot of them from shunning society, as it shunned them.

I've spent hours on the floor with a Vietnam Vet talking him back home from a PTSD nightmare, I've seen the pain and know their horror and I'm so blessed that my disfunction in my home life wasn't fueled by that kind of mental anguish. Some leaders tried to get their soldiers help, most didn't, but that was the way life was in the 60s.

Not much of an answer, just what I had to give.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Dec 31 at 2016 6:56 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:56:18 -0500

I was born when we were sending advisers over there, than we started sending people over to fight, know a lot people younger then me that grew up in homes with 'Nam vet fathers, their cold and lonely people.

Response by Maj John Bell made Dec 31 at 2016 7:35 AM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 07:35:41 -0500

My Dad was a decorated Navy fighter pilot during WWII and Korea. He loved the Navy, loved service members, and loved to tell sea stories, but never any about his war experiences. When I was commissioned in the Marines he handed me his flight logs, his war time diaries, his medals and the accompanying citations. Three of his war buddies were there. My conversation with him and his friends that day are too deeply personal to discuss here. But they were not negative. He and they had a unique perspectives on life, harmony, and contentment. They were able to take away the best lessons from the ugliest of experiences.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2016 11:25 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 11:25:55 -0500

I think it matters whether history and perception judges that the war one fought in was "worth it". WWII veterans are universally revered as the greatest generation, having defeated fascism and Nazism. While plenty of those men saw unspeakable horrors, most who returned whole went on to be productive members of society.
Wars after then, the numerous undeclared wars, have had ambiguous aims, goals, and reasons for going to war in the first place. They have often been questioned by protesters and the political party not in power. Veterans of the conflicts are seldom celebrated, and sometimes reviled as "baby killers" or worse.
Facing your demons is a lot tougher when you feel like the world is against you.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2016 1:47 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 13:47:31 -0500

I am a Vietnam combat veteran. War is hell for all ivolved in them including the families. War does not create glamorized warriors, even though TV and the movies try to do this. War does not create non glamorized families and imperfect families and children.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jan 1 at 2017 11:38 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 11:38:08 -0500

PO3 Aaron Hassay as you know Aaron in our many discussions my father (Donald F. Burroughs) Korean War Veteran and Purple Heart receipting suffered from PTSD his entire life right up to the end on October 7, 2016 when he passed away. Because of his PTSD we never got along at all up through age 17 when I got him and my mother to sign my enlistement papers into the US Army in January 1975. It took a life threatening critical event in his life when I was age 36 when I found out about all of his demons, troubles, and issues that led to me and my brother really not liking our father. All of our lives changed after that day and me and my brother came to understand, appreciate, and love the man that brought us into this world. We buried him with honors on October 7th of this year! I have a good understanding as we've discussed many times on the phone my friend. 2017 will be a good year for you Aaron I know it will - take care my friend!

You posted a great question and I'd like to dhare it with many other connections - I hope you don;t mind Aaron.

Response by Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM made Jan 1 at 2017 12:02 PM

Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 12:02:38 -0500

Simple answer is Yes! On both sides changes occur that are unable to be communicated or understood. Parenting is the most difficult understated challenge of our lives. We all do the best we can with what ever we can. Perhaps we lose sight of what is really important. Some Parents Love without Condition. I find that that matters. I am one of those moms and broke the chains of that past. One step, one day one moment it can change in the blink of an eye.

The leaders today are the sons and daughters of yesterday~It depends on their perspective . We all have the ability within ourselves to challenge our own demons and chose one thought over the other! We can chose if we wish to take that next step!

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 1 at 2017 12:11 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 12:11:32 -0500

How can anyone truly realize or know an experience that they have never experienced? Even those who have gone to war know little of it. The average infantry man focuses on a fifteen degree swath of a battlefield within the range of his weapon or his vision, whichever is greater. Even he knows little of the horrors in the foxhole to his right or left. Those that visit him are more than anyone should bear. Imagine then the ignorance of leaders who are far from the battlefield, especially those who never served on one. Worse than ignorant are those who know nothing more than the propaganda used to encourage young men to march into the killing fields or the tall tales told by veterans to protect themselves as well as their loved ones from the horrors they have lived. I have often said that I knew little of the Army than what I read in Beetle Bailey comics. And, inasmuch as my father never served, my only connection with "heroes" were John Wayne and Randolph Scott portraying them poorly.

Thus, I would never expect the VA or any government agency to fly to our rescue. This is why I joined veterans organizations like the American Legion and the VFW, to help my brothers and sisters in arms and their families. We must help one another at home just as we did on the battlefield. Anyone suffering the scars of war should look to these organizations first.

Response by Lynda Key made Jan 1 at 2017 12:58 PM

Lynda Key — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 12:58:27 -0500

My father was WWII Army sniper who came back from the war very angry. He spent his time working hard, going to school, and taking road trips on his Indian motorcycle he rebuilt. He said when he met our mom it cured him but I remember a very driven man who didn't have much patience who all 4 of us, excluding mom, pulled away from. He tried to micromanage us and we are just as stubborn as he was. I only really got to know him when I moved back to Arizona to help him with mom's dementia. Whenever we were away from mom he would open up and talk about so much. I came to love him more than I ever did. He is the one I would talk to when I developed PTSD after a stroke a few years ago. Three days ago my youngest brother and I sat with him he passed away.

I know there has not been adequate care for our military or their families when they have returned from any war. Keep in mind there was a major upheaval in our society when mothers stayed in the work force. Remember latch key children? They came home to an empty house. Now many children are away from home more between before and after school programs due to parent/parents having to work and not wanting their children home without supervision. We need to salvage the family unit.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Jan 1 at 2017 1:51 PM

SFC William Farrell — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 13:51:37 -0500

PO3 Aaron Hassay COL Mikel J. Burroughs Aaron, thank you for sharing a very personal story. War is hell, on the veteran and on his/her dependents. I am a Vietnam combat veteran, my father was a WWII veteran. My father who we buried with military honors at the end of October was an alcoholic who was sober for the past 25 years of his life. He was somewhat abusive when we were kids and my parents split when I was about 10/11. My twin brother and I went back to live with him when we were 15. I never regretted that decision. For years after I left Vietnam, I abused alcohol, my way of coping with life after war. I certainly am not perfect just like my father was not. I have come to understand why he was like he was just as those who I have hurt with my drinking have forgiven me. I have been sober for many years now just like my Dad was sober when he died October 28th.

The point of my post to you is that we need to move on and forgive. If you do not it is going to eat you up and will ruin your own life if you let it. You do not want to do that. So your question does war create perfect warriors and imperfect families in the same world, I think the answer is no. Warriors suffer and so do their families. We paid a price with our service but dont let it ruin you. All the best in this New Year.

Response by Cpl Joshua Caldwell made Jan 1 at 2017 2:11 PM

Cpl Joshua Caldwell — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 14:11:16 -0500

We will always glorify the Warrior and we should, the warrior is the best part of our society, the brave warrior willing to sacrifice everything to win for his people. The biggest tragedy in war is that the best people die. The cowards and those who lack any moral ground will always survive, they are like cockroaches.
Part two, is what we don't talk about, what happens to the warrior after the war. The part where they have to go from having the power to kill, surviving with brothers through very tough times, and then dropping back into the world of the shopping mall and no more moral absolutes. That is when things fall apart. So I believe that the glory still belongs to the warrior but we need to spend a lot more time and energy bring them back to the land of the big PX.
Normal in a combat zone, is bat shit crazy in a cul de sac neighborhood. We need to find new ways to transition.

Response by PFC Stephen Eric Serati made Jan 1 at 2017 2:56 PM

PFC Stephen Eric Serati — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 14:56:08 -0500

My Dad served 6yrs in the navy,got out and went back in the Air Force at Chanute Airbase while going to school.Everything was going well.I'll make this short and simple,his medical records were lost in the beginning,They found him in a church steeple barely clothed and incoherent, with no medical record.My Grandma was informed of his whereabouts by a clerk.From that point on my Grandma fought tooth and nail to get his benefits from the VA,she finally won,about 5yrs back I was finally shown his medical records which were conflicting and In some parts looked fabricated to fit a story that didn't match his true life.Not just according to me but other family members.The VA labeled him schizophrenia,their favorite diagnosis when convenient.This is where RallyPoint could help me.I want all records of my Fathers service,to his schooling at SIUC,and UI,especially UI,what was he studying,1973,1974.The connection between the Federal Government and the University and if myDad was a participant in any secret Federal studies,I want to know why if his commanding officer thought he was on drugs he didn't do more.My Dad didn't drink or do drugs.Standard Form 93 January 1971 GSA FPMR 101-11.8 is a Report Of Medical History.Pupose of Examination,Discharge.Date 12July,74.Statement of Examiner for present health and medications.GOOD.SO do you see my dilemma.Your guidance would be appreciated.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Jan 2 at 2017 1:53 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 13:53:46 -0500

I personally think that war didn't glamorize the soldier, sailor or airman before, during or after the war. American Media and Military Media did that to aid in War Bond Sales, Rationing Books and scrap metal drives. Families were doing the best they could to support their loved ones serving overseas in the combat theaters. If anyone glamorized them it was to convince other families to do the same to dedicate oneself to the war effort. Movies like Hamburger Hill, Saving Private Ryan, We were soldiers once and young, and Hacksaw Ridge show the horrors of war and how our men and women in combat suffered incredibly horrible, visual and mental trauma. My dad had a cousin who hit the deck whenever a loud noise caught him off guard. His head told him it was an incoming round or rifle shot. I know there are many kinds of PTSD and wonder were the soldiers from WWII and Korea stronger mentally and physically to ward off the effects of PTSD or were there as many suicides and mental issues with them as well? These days the commercials we see on tv tell a different story concerning our veterans. They describe a social facet of the soldier, sailor or airman who participates in community building, secondary schooling and leadership.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Jan 2 at 2017 2:29 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 14:29:06 -0500

I want to thank all of our combat veterans on RP. I want to thank all the nurses who treated them in combat and in the VA. I want to thank the non-combat vets on here too. Somehow and thankfully so we avoided these conflicts and served during times of occupation after WWII in Europe and the South Seas. Korean War occupation. We served during the Cold Wars between Russia and the U.S. We did serve and were as trained as any other unit in the U.S. Armed Forces. We waited and were told to stand down. George Goebel the comedian said it best on Johnny Carson one night when he said I was stationed in Oklahoma during WWII, don't laugh...... if the country didn't need me there they wouldn't have sent me. I was there as a Instructor Pilot. I taught AT-9's in Altus Oklahoma and B-26's in Frederick Oklahoma.......don't laugh, Johnny I can honestly say no Jap aircraft ever made it past Tulsa and we didn't even have guns on our planes. So no matter where you served I thank you all and salute you!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2017 3:45 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 15:45:34 -0500

Interesting question. My father was a Vietnam Marine that had a failed marriage and was an alcoholic. His father was a WW 2 Navy vet who also was an alcoholic and had a a failed marriage. But my grandfather and all of his brothers where raised in an orphanage in Greene County Ohio, until they where old enough to work on their fathers farm. (Their father put them in the home when their mother ran off). So its hard to say in my families case whether it was military service or just a lack of parenting role models down the family line.

Response by SSG Darrin Bovia made Jan 4 at 2017 2:18 PM

SSG Darrin Bovia — Wed, 04 Jan 2017 14:18:37 -0500

War does not create "glamorized" Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines. Most Americans never get to see us train; and there is no Monday Night Football equivalent that allows them to see the fruits of their tax expenditures and our hard work. How well we perform in combat is the only true metric for service members, and for the most part we a glorious lot to behold in action. It doesn't matter your career field, there is a combat role for all. When Americans see footage of its protectors in action, it should be difficult for them not to be impressed.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jan 24 at 2017 9:26 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 09:26:16 -0500

Almost every older male I was raised around survived WWII and/or Korea. While most had their bad memories, the huge majorities returned to live normal lives in spite of it. My father survived China, Burma, India from spring of 1942 until the war ended, yet was still a loving and caring man after, as were most of the vets I grew up around. Certainly there where individuals that had lasting issues, but when you consider the numbers that saw some incredibly brutal combat and civilian atrocities, I'm impressed that so many were able to adapt.
I think that Vietnam offered a number of issues that didn't occur in previous conflicts. The lack of support at home is some of it, but I would point to the fact that this is the first war that you could be in combat one day and in less than a week be back home with the family. While the WWII and Korean War vets had weeks, sometimes months, to decompress before coming home, the Vietnam era soldiers was ripped from the support of his comrades and back to the world where few have the shared experiences that allow them to relate in a meaningful manner. I think that most of the Military learned that lesson, it's my understanding that the Marines deploy and return as a unit and then segregate those troops in cantonment for a period that allows that mutual support while winding down.
That said, my father didn't talk about his experiences until after I joined the Army and had been in for while. He never forgave the Japanese either.
Few War movies accurately depict the emotions of combat. Maybe Gettysburg and Hamburger Hill.