Does the ongoing discussion regarding gun possession and seeking psychological help for PTSD seem like a Catch "22" to anyone else?

Maj Kim Patterson — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 02:34:22 -0500

It takes the courage of a warrior to seek help. It takes the stroke of a political pen to send those who need help back into hiding if we want to own weapons; this seems to me like it could easily turn into a witch hunt, something like the Salem witch trials. Broken down to the most basic question: are you willing to permanently turn in your weapons to get help for PTSD?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2016 3:07 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 03:07:30 -0500

Maj Kim Patterson No I don't think it is appropriate. Congress has already approved the likelihood this will be done in the recent passing of legislation. Yes it does. "The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS or “the Department”) is issuing this final rule to modify the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) Privacy Rule to expressly permit certain HIPAA covered entities to disclose to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) the identities of individuals who are subject to a Federal “mental health prohibitor” that disqualifies them from shipping, transporting, possessing, or receiving a firearm. The NICS is a national system maintained by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to conduct background checks on persons who may be disqualified from receiving firearms based on Federally prohibited categories or State law."

Response by SPC Dee Bartlett made Jan 24 at 2016 4:18 AM

SPC Dee Bartlett — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 04:18:52 -0500

I couldn't answer because to me, it's not an either/or. Who has been asked to submit their weapon in order to get help? Why do you have to do one or the other? Where is that occurring? Hmmm.....

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Jan 24 at 2016 5:01 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 05:01:19 -0500

What a load of horseshit. My VA mental health survey had the question "Do you own any firearms in your household" I answered in big letters "NONE OF YOU F%$&KING BUSINESS" . When I spoke to my mental health conselor and she seemed a bit confused I asked her if she didnt think it was Ironic that Every 3 months the VA gives me enough pills to commit suicide or poison someone else with 100 times over and they want to worry about MY guns?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2016 5:24 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 05:24:51 -0500

The laws about the VA reporting vets who have been ruled incompetent hasn't changed since 1998. I believe what the new executive order relates to is making it so the social security administration can also report to the database people receiving disability payments for having been ruled mentally incompetent.

The issue about the VA reporting is that if you have been determined to be incompetent to manage your affairs to the point that they need to appoint a guardian, then you are reported. But many vets have complained that people who need a guardian because they mentally can't manage things like their financial arrangements shouldn't be lumped together with people who are determined to be a harm to themselves or others. I suspect the same issue would arsie with SS disabilities.

But there has been nothing new added to any law about what makes you ruled incompetent, and certainly simply getting treated for PTSD doesn't trigger it, as it hasn't since 1998. Unfortunately, some gun rights activists are using that as a scare tactic, and by misinforming the vets as to what has and hasnt changed, they may well indeed scare some away from treatment.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 24 at 2016 7:21 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 07:21:28 -0500

Service Members had a hard time seeking Medical Help (et al) because they feared it would end their Careers. Now imagine that same concept, but with Civil Protections.

I have a friend who the VA unceremoniously declared "incompetent" (via letter, not via Court) to handle her own affairs after a 15 minute interview with a VA Doctor. She had to fight to get that overturned.

Do you really think Vets are going to give the Government "an inch of rope" when we know they'll take a mile?

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jan 24 at 2016 7:57 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 07:57:30 -0500

Your positon and belief on this topic is accurate, not new and a common response....And not likely to change my opinion on that in my life time.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2016 8:27 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 08:27:24 -0500

Congress took away the protection of HIPPA for those with issues such as PTSD, with passing this newest legislation. Specifically expressing the lawfulness of doctors to disclose to NICS "the identities of individuals who are subject to a Federal “mental health prohibitor” that disqualifies them from shipping, transporting, possessing, or receiving a firearm."

Response by SPC Joel Willman made Jan 24 at 2016 8:51 AM

SPC Joel Willman — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 08:51:03 -0500

I feel this issue is the perfect example of giving them reasons to Have a News Heading if something should go bad.

Response by SGT John " Mac " McConnell made Jan 24 at 2016 9:41 AM

SGT John " Mac " McConnell — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 09:41:02 -0500

Looking at this from all angles, I feel this is the tip of the iceberg. Grant it ,some people should not own guns because of mental incompetence. But there has got to be a better way of handling this issue.
With this said. Is the federal government going to use mental health " Which is a broad spectrum !" to grab guns ? PTSD, The Elderly,and the list goes on.... Could our 1st Amendments rights be used against us ?
For example, I speak out against something on social media that I feel strongly about. someone see's it and is offended. Then I either become a racist or have a phobia. They report me to the authorities . The authorities now put me on a watch list...... "Do you see where this is going ?" I hope this is not the case !
This has happened throughout history. I hope we do not repeat it ! I think I will stick with my guns on this one.........

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 24 at 2016 12:00 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:00:11 -0500

I don't own guns. It is too convenient to die than live.

Response by SPC James Dollins made Jan 24 at 2016 1:02 PM

SPC James Dollins — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 13:02:29 -0500

While I am diagnosed w/ PTSD, I don't know how I would handle having to turn in my weapons. They aren't only for me, but for protection of my family as well. So I would be HIGHLY upset!

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jan 24 at 2016 7:18 PM

PO1 John Miller — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 19:18:31 -0500

In short, NO.

Response by SCPO Carl Wayne Boss made Jan 25 at 2016 5:12 AM

SCPO Carl Wayne Boss — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 05:12:28 -0500

It's a "Double Edged Sword" for sure Major; In a lot of ways it's a "Red Herring"... one the current Administration, Liberal Politicians and those with gun banning on the brain in general, have come up with to further throw a monkey wrench in private gun ownership's machinery... I'd sooner trust the judgment of the majority of current & former military people with or without PTSD with firearms, more than I do some of those in government with a pen in theirs!

Their arguments are bogus and they know it... guns don't cause shootings, any more than knives cause stabbings, automobiles cause automobile accidents, pools cause drowning or hammers or baseball bats cause people to be bludgeoned to death...

All those occurrences are caused by other people wielding those and other devices that are often employed as tools of destruction against their fellows, rather than the uses for which they were intended. A gun is a tool, just like a hammer or a knife, it serves a purpose, when "properly" employed in defense of self or another as protection or as a weapon of war... when used to murder or maim it is a CRIME and the user/perpetrator should be treated as a "Criminal" and prosecuted as such.

Law abiding gun owners should be left alone. If guns are taken from all citizens, then all security guards, police and secret service protection should be removed from all governments representatives from the President on down, so they may have the privilege and opportunity of living without protection, just as the rest of us would have to and be at the mercy of the Criminal elements who are not going to comply with the law, no matter what it is!

The rest of the "law abiding populace" should not be continually persecuted for the "illegal" acts of a "Criminal". "Illegal Acts or actions of a "Rogue member or members of a Government" should also be prosecuted for the mis-application of the Laws as they currently exist... unless said law is changed by a vote of "We the People" as set forth in the Constitution itself! Like the man said... they can have mine when they pry it from... well you get the picture!

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 11:09 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 11:09:39 -0500

??? so where did the gun come in on this??? Last time I check ... there are a lot more way to kill oneself or others and far convince than guns too.

This is a mental illness issue, and got nothing to do with guns.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 7:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:51:53 -0500

Very much, ma'am! It's one of the few reasons that I personally don't want to talk with anyone at the VA about PTSD. We'd likely be the first to be DQ'd from gun ownership in a proposed bill/law. It's unfortunate but realistic. Maj Kim Patterson

Response by GySgt David Weihausen made Dec 30 at 2016 2:23 PM

GySgt David Weihausen — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:23:38 -0500

Although I don't suffer from PTSD, I would be extremely leery of ever being evaluated simply because of the current push from the left to equivocate it to my gun rights. Does anyone else feel this way?