Posted on Jan 1, 2014
Does the military need to dispose of antiquated "uniformity" in lieu of more individual expression?
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An article focused mainly on Indian-Americans was recently published where the discussion turned to changing policies (grooming, wear of uniform, etc) to allow more folks to join without comprising their religious practices/beliefs.<div><br></div><div>Without focusing on specific religions, but focused mainly on grooming and uniform standards, does the military need to dispose of antiquated "uniformity" in lieu of more individual expression?</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.indiawest.com/news/15912-sikh-soldiers-want-more-indian-americans-in-u-s-army.html#kaxMGk112xXGCIbO.99">http://www.indiawest.com/news/15912-sikh-soldiers-want-more-indian-americans-in-u-s-army.html#kaxMGk112xXGCIbO.99</a><br></div><div><br></div><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="http://www.indiawest.com/indiawest_cms/gall_content/2013/12/2013_12$largeimg229_Dec_2013_102644053.jpg"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.indiawest.com/news/15912-sikh-soldiers-want-more-indian-americans-in-u-s-army.html">Sikh Soldiers Want More Indian Americans in U.S. Army</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">The United States should change its policy to allow more Indian Americans to join the military without compromising on their religious beliefs and practices, the only three Sikh soldiers in the U.S. A...</div></div><div style="clear:both"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 49
670-1 is not about creating or equaling discipline. It's about documenting the STANDARD. These are a particular and set group of rules and guidelines that apply to everyone, not particular individuals. It establishes that everyone is treated the same, not differently, based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion. It is no different than BRM standards when it comes to qualifying, or the APFT. And before anyone would like to argue the differences in that arena, they are purely physiological, and nothing else.
The military is and always has been a private organization, just like any corporation. You must apply and be accepted. You agree to the rules and regulations therein in order to join. If at any time you break, choose not to support the rules and regulations, or no longer meet those qualifications, you can be terminated, or quit.
Therefore, standards help to 'enforce' discipline by way of leaders having a way to gauge the motivation of their troops to meet a standard, to follow rules and orders, to be a member of the team, conform to uniformity and attaining a common goal. Discipline is believing and doing the above.
For instance...the soon to be published 670-1 with its severe changes, disguises the real problem. DISCIPLINE. I don't believe there is a need to change the current regulation, as grooming is not the issue at hand - it is discipline. If leaders were not so afraid to tell that Soldier that her hair style is out of regulation, her nails are the wrong color or too long, or mentoring the young soldier and teaching him that we represent the military everywhere we go and in everything that we do, therefore that his pants around his legs with his underwear showing is unprofessional....for fear of an EO or IG complaint.
The current reg clearly defines the acceptable, the do's and don't's. Surprisingly, there are way too many leaders that do NOT read or understand the regulation, as well. They go by what they think, or were told by their leaders. If I had a dollar for every time I was told "I really don't know what the reg says/means, so I just leave female soldiers alone..or let other females make those corrections", I would have retired years ago. That to me is a travesty, not to mention poor leadership. That is where the lack of discipline comes in.
Lastly, if we allow for individualism, or different standards for different religions, etc, soldiers and leaders will lose the desire for, and ability to maintain, discipline. With different rules for different people, separation and segregation will creep back into our ranks. Standards are there to reinforce team, uniformity, equality...which together leads to discipline. A unified goal, be it grooming and uniform standards, APFT standards, military customs and courtesies, religious accommodations, and so on.
Standards lead to discipline, not vice-versa.
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Unity is often confused with uniformity. We need look no further than our own Revolutionary War to understand the difference. The British were uniform but not unified, we were unified but not uniform. The same case might be made for Vietnam and the current war on terrorism. The benefits of uniformity, certainly during the indoctrination and forming of a unit are well known. The benefits of uniformity operationally may be less so.
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The way you phrased the original question is quite interesting, and maybe a tad bit leading.
Regardless you have created a very interesting discussion thread.
I think we could go down several different paths.
1) Stay the course and ensure good order, discipline while not usurping individuality.
2) Change the policies and skew them towards individual expression and liberties at the expense of the whole.
3) Go the route of the Village People and sing YMCA all day. Please understand that this comment is not a jab at lifestyle, rather I refer you to the visual of the group up on the stage and the diversity in clothing and apparel only.
4) Take your discussion to the extreme and open the aperture widely. Today your discussion is on Sikh's. Lets open this up to every plausible scenario and see where that leads us.
- Turban's
- Beards
- Hijab's
- Bonnet's
- yarmulke (OK, there is an interesting one. What makes it different than the turban?)
- Talissman's
- Robes
- Hats ( or in Marine speak--religious covers)
- and on and on and on......
I am sure that we could take this list and many other examples of individual expression to extremes. Then again, maybe the antiquated notion of "uniformity" isn't that antiquated after all.
Grooming standards and dress code deviations should be mission driven, not personality or individual in nature. There are reasons for uniformity. One has a choice to enter and the rules, regulations and uniform codes that apply are all part of any consideration.
What happens next if you go the individuality route. Not just from religious preference and nuance, but look at your individual units. Lets see how easy it will be to lead a gaggle of individuals who all have different beliefs, wear different clothes, think the mission and the way it is executed should be done differently, and on and on.
Then again, is it really that big of a deal? Look at other military examples where Sikh's for example are allowed to serve. Has it hindered their ability to execute their assigned roles and missions?
Just some thoughts.
Regardless you have created a very interesting discussion thread.
I think we could go down several different paths.
1) Stay the course and ensure good order, discipline while not usurping individuality.
2) Change the policies and skew them towards individual expression and liberties at the expense of the whole.
3) Go the route of the Village People and sing YMCA all day. Please understand that this comment is not a jab at lifestyle, rather I refer you to the visual of the group up on the stage and the diversity in clothing and apparel only.
4) Take your discussion to the extreme and open the aperture widely. Today your discussion is on Sikh's. Lets open this up to every plausible scenario and see where that leads us.
- Turban's
- Beards
- Hijab's
- Bonnet's
- yarmulke (OK, there is an interesting one. What makes it different than the turban?)
- Talissman's
- Robes
- Hats ( or in Marine speak--religious covers)
- and on and on and on......
I am sure that we could take this list and many other examples of individual expression to extremes. Then again, maybe the antiquated notion of "uniformity" isn't that antiquated after all.
Grooming standards and dress code deviations should be mission driven, not personality or individual in nature. There are reasons for uniformity. One has a choice to enter and the rules, regulations and uniform codes that apply are all part of any consideration.
What happens next if you go the individuality route. Not just from religious preference and nuance, but look at your individual units. Lets see how easy it will be to lead a gaggle of individuals who all have different beliefs, wear different clothes, think the mission and the way it is executed should be done differently, and on and on.
Then again, is it really that big of a deal? Look at other military examples where Sikh's for example are allowed to serve. Has it hindered their ability to execute their assigned roles and missions?
Just some thoughts.
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CSM Mike Maynard
You are correct sir, the question was purposefully worded this way to generate discussion.
One of your points about "taking it to the extreme" is right on point, because that is exactly what happens.
It all starts out with good intentions, but folks just can't leave well enough alone and continue to push and extend the freedoms/liberties so we either crush them with zero tolerance policies that infringe upon Mission Command or we let them have their own interpretation - and that affects good order and discipline.
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The military is merely changing as America is changing. Just under 20 years ago when I enlisted, the world expected individuals to conform to the majority. Somehow the paradigm has flipped and now people expect the majority to conform to the individual. The concept of uniformity has been virtually eliminated from public schools in the 1990s (maybe slightly before that), and has been slowly eroding from the military since then as well. It is up to us old folks to accept that some things need to change, but that other things have been allowed to change because we have not taken a stand against those unnecessary changes.
Soldiers wearing turbans will not change. The fact that it bothers me is more of a reflection of my inability to accept the simple fact that the world has changed and I have not. Soldiers wearing tongue rings in formations is where I can take a stand against individuality. That happens, because youngsters get away with it, and us old folks have failed to identify the problem or we have given up wasting our breath on youngsters that do not listen any way.
Should the military fight back against these changes? I think so, but I am in that minority that thinks volunteers in an all-volunteer force knowingly surrender the right to individual expression. There needs to be more of us to reverse this trend of individuality, or else we become part of the problem--the changing face of America.
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Maintaining uniformity requires discipline (by shaving, getting a haircut, staying trim, not adhering to fads) in an age of no shine boots, no press uniforms, RFI, and RESET, the last thing we need is less discipline.
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Absolutely NOT! There are reasons that the military has standards for uniformity. How many of you have seen a move with an American Actor (Bruce Willis, Samuel L. Jackson, whoever) wearing a US Army uniform and there was something wrong with their uniform, their salute or how they did something? We all have and picked up on those discrepancies right away. Those standards have been engrained in our very fiber from the first day of basic training.
If an enemy combatant tries to put on an American uniform and get across the wire, chances are, there will be something wrong with what they're doing. An American Soldier walks a certain way. We talk a certain way. We salute a certain way and we wear our uniform a certain way. If something is wrong, we'll spot it. That attention to detail will save you and your buddy's life.
CSM Mike Waller
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CSM Mike Maynard
Great point about the logical reasons for uniformity and not just to satisfy someone's pet peeve.
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Hell NO!!! If that is the case, then why even bother wearing a uniform! Regardless of religion or nationality everyone that signs up for the military should go by the same rules and regulations! If people are going to be allowed to keep their beards and head dresses, then why bother having any grooming regulation! Just because someone is an officer and of different religion doesn't exempt them... If they can't be uniform with everyone else and respect the American uniform, get he hell out!
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SSgt (Join to see)
Politics my friends and a seething hatred for Christians. that is my one cent. :)
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No problem There were Sikhs in the Army in the 70's and 80's. Wore turbans. I knew one that was an NBC NCO. When the mask went on the turban came off. The long hair in that event took a bit of getting used to, but he just followed the female standard and it was ok. A standard is a standard and should apply to all equally. Wait- whoa. Did I just say that?
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CSM Mike Maynard
A standard should apply to all equally? haha. Yep you just said that in the same breath that you talked about male following female standards. hmmmmmmm
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CSM James Winslow
So...? If it means the male hair standard could be the same as a female, then ok. An adjustment to the female Hair standard would work too. and equal opportunity army. How about not below the top (or bottom) edge of the collar for all? No more buns, no more piled hair, but also no more off the ears.... Oh, the barbers that would go out of business.... or not. Most European armies do it. Don't forget this is an open forum, and I am merely throwing this out there.... I will keep my hair short, mostly because I don't have any.
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The wear of the turban, and the prohibition on cutting hair aren't common to all Indians, just Sikhs (a religion, not an ethnic group). <div><br></div><div>Observant Sikhs embody more discipline, a stronger warrior tradition and better (just different) grooming standards than most. I have to admit I was pretty pleased to see that Captain wearing the US flash and his bars on turban. He has, I believe, and individual exception to the policy, and he's got to keep his standards high to retain it. I've seen picture of a camo turban, too. <div><br></div><div>I'm interested to see how things pan out and I wouldn't mind seeing other Sikhs accommodated in a similar fashion. </div><div><br></div><div>A different hat? I think we've gotten way to bent out of shape about hats in the past few years, between the beret, patrol caps, the Marine's fuss over their rumor of adopting a perceived "female" headgear as standard for all, and now this. If he can still get a seal on a mask and wear a kevlar, that's the standard I would not be willing to veer from.</div><div><br></div><div>I expect to be the holder of the contrary and unpopular opinion once again, but I'm in general opposed to relaxing standards for "individual expression" but in favor of granting that Sikh soldier (and probably others like him) individual exceptions to the standard headgear and haircut/facial hair standards.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>
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SPC Dana Bahe
What is your view then on the Native American? As far as this Native American Indian it didn't stop the Army from cutting off my traditional braids.......I had no facial hair and my braids were well groomed. I am Plains and Southwest Native.....a line of warriors well disicplined; where being a Warrior was a tradition!!!!!!! I took my Name from a White Commander, unbeknownst to him, he couldn't have given me a better name. He called me Ghost in the Woods.
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CPT Ray Doeksen
Well, was your longer hair "individual expression" or "religious obligation?"
And as long as were on it, what's your stand? Do you think you should have been able to keep it long, regardless, or are you OK with the policy as it stands?
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CSM Mike Maynard
But what is the definition of "religion" - just a deeply held belief that has certain rites/traditions associated with it - the Army is accepting of all, so they are all "right".
Religion can be very loosely defined and applicable to what SPC Bahe states. Hasidic Jews would be another example of a religion that would require them to have different grooming standards. Not sure how we can pick and choose which ones we allow and which ones we don't allow?
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Individual expression is for civilian clothes not uniforms. Uniforms bring a sense of belonging of being part of something bigger than the individual and of unity. Changing that could have far reaching negative consequences.
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CSM Mike Maynard
Very true. We do give up a lot of our individual expression while "on the job" in order to become a more cohesive and unified force and uniformity does lend to that end.
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