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http://www.fayobserver.com/military/bragg-colonel-removed-from-job-over-accusations-of-lip-kissing/article_46126322-bd99-5262-a2a2-1c [login to see] .html
The article speaks of violating 5 of the 8 core expectations, but highlights kisses. I can't imagine that his peers and senior leaders at these events didn't witness this colonel's kisses.
The article speaks of violating 5 of the 8 core expectations, but highlights kisses. I can't imagine that his peers and senior leaders at these events didn't witness this colonel's kisses.
Fort Liberty
XVIII ABN Corps
UCMJ
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
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Sgt Spencer Sikder I am familiar with the Brigade, the Officer, and the case. He left command early, before the Brigade was set to deploy, which is essentially being relieved. He was/is toxic... and it is shame they Army did not sanction him sooner... The jump chasing I can see, as he is the quintessential all about me leader. The lip kissing, that is flat bizarre. I only kiss one women on the lips...
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No man or woman is above the rules or social norms in the military. If he was a high ranking government employee, he'd just fine and trucking along like many politicians. The military holds the finest traditions and discipline.
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SGT Spencer Sidker, Justice be done; maybe/kinda/sort of and later rather than soonest!
Wow! Retired, in GRADE, 2 years after the first report? My first thought was that the WPPA had influence in the matter. Google reveals the COL had been an Enlisted MP in 1982.
This is one more black mark for Officer vs EM military justice system!
Wow! Retired, in GRADE, 2 years after the first report? My first thought was that the WPPA had influence in the matter. Google reveals the COL had been an Enlisted MP in 1982.
This is one more black mark for Officer vs EM military justice system!
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SSG Robert Webster
CSM Charles Hayden, I am sure that this was reported a lot earlier than the report that initiated his being relieved and then forced into retirement. I am quite positive that this had been reported to the previous Corps Commander (LTG Helmick), but he did not appear to do anything about it in regards to resolving the problem.
It appears that GEN Allyn took quick action upon learning about this. However, we should not fault GEN Allyn or any of his successors in relationship to the length of time that it took to get rid of this individual, we should place blame on the system in this case.
In regards to GEN Allyn, it appears to me that the lessons that he learned while serving in C Co. 2nd Bn (ABN) 508th Infantry under BG Dorian Anderson (Co CO), COL Ralph Newman (Bn CO), and GEN Hugh Shelton (Bde CO) have been put to good use. I remember these Commanders because I learned from them as well, but I did not put it into practice as well as others have.
It appears that GEN Allyn took quick action upon learning about this. However, we should not fault GEN Allyn or any of his successors in relationship to the length of time that it took to get rid of this individual, we should place blame on the system in this case.
In regards to GEN Allyn, it appears to me that the lessons that he learned while serving in C Co. 2nd Bn (ABN) 508th Infantry under BG Dorian Anderson (Co CO), COL Ralph Newman (Bn CO), and GEN Hugh Shelton (Bde CO) have been put to good use. I remember these Commanders because I learned from them as well, but I did not put it into practice as well as others have.
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I think by the response that they got the by-line spot on. It is factual and got people to read it. Everyone loves a scandal that are not affected by it.
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Assuming that the article is accurate, and the investigation was sustained....
Imagine for one second that a SNCO or Officer walked up and planted one on his wife at a function-EXPLOSION-Guarranteed.
There is a distinct possibility that I might have gotten the Article 15......(insert imagination). For darn sure that investigation would not have taken 2 years, because the investigators would have been put on notice that a MANIAC keeps coming to the office raising cane.
The very longest, closest ,most respected friends that I have would never dream of doing that because it is wrong on every level. Utterly and completely disrespectful behavior, especially from a Commander. I find it unimaginable that a ruckus was not raised the very first time it happened. And then, for it to drag on for close to 2 years, which only gives the impression of "nothing is happening". WOW. SAD.
Imagine for one second that a SNCO or Officer walked up and planted one on his wife at a function-EXPLOSION-Guarranteed.
There is a distinct possibility that I might have gotten the Article 15......(insert imagination). For darn sure that investigation would not have taken 2 years, because the investigators would have been put on notice that a MANIAC keeps coming to the office raising cane.
The very longest, closest ,most respected friends that I have would never dream of doing that because it is wrong on every level. Utterly and completely disrespectful behavior, especially from a Commander. I find it unimaginable that a ruckus was not raised the very first time it happened. And then, for it to drag on for close to 2 years, which only gives the impression of "nothing is happening". WOW. SAD.
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SSG Robert Webster
CMSgt James Nolan - I think that you have misinterpreted the article. It was not the "investigation" that took so long, it was the "due process" given to this individual. Here is what I said to CSM Hayden in response to his earlier comment and I think it is appropriate as a response to your comment. ---
I am sure that this was reported a lot earlier than the report that initiated his being relieved and then forced into retirement. I am quite positive that this had been reported to the previous Corps Commander (LTG Helmick), but he did not appear to do anything about it in regards to resolving the problem.
It appears that GEN Allyn took quick action upon learning about this. However, we should not fault GEN Allyn or any of his successors in relationship to the length of time that it took to get rid of this individual, we should place blame on the system in this case.
In regards to GEN Allyn, it appears to me that the lessons that he learned while serving in C Co. 2nd Bn (ABN) 508th Infantry under BG Dorian Anderson (Co CO), COL Ralph Newman (Bn CO), and GEN Hugh Shelton (Bde CO) have been put to good use. I remember these Commanders because I learned from them as well, but I did not put it into practice as well as others have.
I am sure that this was reported a lot earlier than the report that initiated his being relieved and then forced into retirement. I am quite positive that this had been reported to the previous Corps Commander (LTG Helmick), but he did not appear to do anything about it in regards to resolving the problem.
It appears that GEN Allyn took quick action upon learning about this. However, we should not fault GEN Allyn or any of his successors in relationship to the length of time that it took to get rid of this individual, we should place blame on the system in this case.
In regards to GEN Allyn, it appears to me that the lessons that he learned while serving in C Co. 2nd Bn (ABN) 508th Infantry under BG Dorian Anderson (Co CO), COL Ralph Newman (Bn CO), and GEN Hugh Shelton (Bde CO) have been put to good use. I remember these Commanders because I learned from them as well, but I did not put it into practice as well as others have.
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CMSgt James Nolan
SSG Robert Webster No worries, fully aware of "due process" for the purpose of my comment, I encompassed the start to finish as "investigation".
However, I do believe that 2 years is entirely too long, and does provide the rest of the unit the feeling that nothing is being done. (and based on the article, it appears that from letter to retirement, it was closer to 3 years).
To the troops, perception is reality. Meaning, in their minds, if they think and it appears that nothing is being done (even though it can be spinning like a maniac behind the scenes), the reality to the troops is that "nothing is being done".
It took 2 years from the time the letter was written, to his retirement with no discipline. And according to the letter, numerous previous attempts had been brought forward and were shut down. So in reality, my guess is that activity had been going on since somewhere around 2010 when he took over.
So, my question is this: If perception is reality, and the troop's perception is that nothing was done...what is the reality?
However, I do believe that 2 years is entirely too long, and does provide the rest of the unit the feeling that nothing is being done. (and based on the article, it appears that from letter to retirement, it was closer to 3 years).
To the troops, perception is reality. Meaning, in their minds, if they think and it appears that nothing is being done (even though it can be spinning like a maniac behind the scenes), the reality to the troops is that "nothing is being done".
It took 2 years from the time the letter was written, to his retirement with no discipline. And according to the letter, numerous previous attempts had been brought forward and were shut down. So in reality, my guess is that activity had been going on since somewhere around 2010 when he took over.
So, my question is this: If perception is reality, and the troop's perception is that nothing was done...what is the reality?
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SSG Robert Webster
CMSgt James Nolan - Thank you for your insight. You are quite correct about the troop's perceptions and the impact that these types of incidents have on them.
I know from personal experience that perceptions can have a big impact on the viewpoint of both those involved and those that are observers from a distance. I also know from personal experience that due to how some of the processes are implemented and conducted, that "we" may never know the full story behind the scenes; and how big an impact it has from the perspective of lower ranked individuals both when disciplinary action are taken too swiftly or when there appears to be an extraordinary amount of time between initiation of an action and it's final outcome and like in this case the punishment or non-punishment that was implemented.
In addition due to the structure of the military disciplinary system still has or gives the appearance of "class" distinction when handing out punishment, those in the lower ranks will always be punished more drastically than senior ranking NCOs and Officers. Unfortunately our political "class" is also perceived in the same manner.
I know from personal experience that perceptions can have a big impact on the viewpoint of both those involved and those that are observers from a distance. I also know from personal experience that due to how some of the processes are implemented and conducted, that "we" may never know the full story behind the scenes; and how big an impact it has from the perspective of lower ranked individuals both when disciplinary action are taken too swiftly or when there appears to be an extraordinary amount of time between initiation of an action and it's final outcome and like in this case the punishment or non-punishment that was implemented.
In addition due to the structure of the military disciplinary system still has or gives the appearance of "class" distinction when handing out punishment, those in the lower ranks will always be punished more drastically than senior ranking NCOs and Officers. Unfortunately our political "class" is also perceived in the same manner.
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