Does politics belong in the military and has the military become to politically correct for its own good?

SSgt David Tedrow — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 21:19:00 -0400

With the current decision by the Navy to do away with rating within their ranks, to be more in line with other service ranks, is this just another example of political correctness getting out of control throughout the military?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2016 10:58 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 10:58:27 -0400

look at the army, marine corps, and air force you see rank on the shoulder not specialty, its about time the navy does it, I don't believe this move is politically motivated (correctness), but more in line with trimming the fat, can you imagine if all branches had rank and specialty, this is a simple way to reduce spending, also I don't care what your rating is just the rank

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2016 3:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 15:14:50 -0400

Politics has no place in the military, all that matters is that we follow the legal orders of those who have the constitutional authority to issue those orders.

I'm not sure why you equate "political correctness" with politics. What is Political Correctness, other than treating people with the same level of respect and courtesy that you want and expect? If we are all going to work together as a team, it is imperative that we are respectful and courteous to those who are different.

Some people are going to struggle with that, their fear/hatred of people who are different is a real problem... likewise there are those who try to take "political correctness" too far and believe preferential treatment for some minorities is necessary. Railing against political correctness, does nothing to resolve or mitigate either of those issues.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Oct 2 at 2016 4:17 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 16:17:48 -0400

the military should be non-partisan. it doesn't matter who is in the white house, they are the Commander in Chief. as far as politically correct goes. liberals always use the military as a test bed for social theory. the number of dead bodies decides whether the experiment was a success.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Oct 2 at 2016 5:44 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 17:44:36 -0400

Politics as in campaigning for a candidate while at work or in uniform has absolutely no place in the military. Discussing politics in the workplace is a great way to start arguments, hurt people's feelings, and not get much work done, so I always tried to avoid it.

Is the military too politically correct. Yes, with reference to the civilian leadership who are making decisions based on their political orientation rather than the best interests of the US.

The Navy removing ratings from titles is a good idea in my opinion. The other Services don't use titles like "airborne infantry command sergeant major" or "aircraft instructor loadmaster senior master sergeant." The ratings may have been a convenient way to refer to enlisted sailors early in naval history, but with 9 enlisted grades and scores of ratings it's difficult at best. I think the Navy should keep the rating symbol under the "crow" for E-4 through E-6 and for the Chiefs. The Air Force identifies specialties with a badge as does the Army for some specialties.

Response by CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2016 7:17 AM

CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 07:17:04 -0400

The military got too politically correct for the NATION's good under Jimmy Carter. It has just continued the death spiral.

Response by Cpl Dr Ronnie Manns made Oct 4 at 2016 7:54 AM

Cpl Dr Ronnie Manns — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 07:54:34 -0400

The current decision by the Navy on their ranking system seems like a great idea and I cannot see it as political correctness, just simple correctness. Politics begin and end with civilians who hold authority but spreads to those who choose what jobs and who gets meritorious promotions I've seen some attempt to prevent time and grade promotions do to their own politics. I've found that what sometimes appear to the the majority of those serving all leaning toward one particular political party still today. Politics has no place in the military but trying to keep it out means enlisting robots instead of humans.

Response by Cpl Matthew Hillard made Oct 4 at 2016 8:54 AM

Cpl Matthew Hillard — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 08:54:27 -0400

Yes. Our leaders are making decisions based on their political affiliation/aspirations rather than the best interests of the Military. Beards? Really? How do you get a good seal on a gas mask with a beard? Military rules and regulations have been formed through decades of experience, and are tailored to each service individually. Ones size fits all politically correct mandates reduce our readiness, effectiveness, and ability to make war. Don't get me started on ROE's!

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Oct 4 at 2016 9:21 AM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 09:21:42 -0400

Politcs vs PC...big difference. Military and its use is a politcial force. Political Correctness is a political game. There is probably few more conservative vocations than military service. That is due to its heritage, traditions and recognition of sacrafice and the honor of defending America. Political Correctness for the sake of social change goes against the grain of the very fabric of the military. The Corps spending millions on updating 'offending' verbiage in their documentation. While it sounds cheap, the Navy is going to spend a ton of money and manhours (can I still say that?) changing their enlisted rank titles NOW? They claim to be cash strapped as well. How do you tell the taxpayers you need even more money for a service that has money to spend on these 'feel good' programs?

Response by SSG Jessica Bautista made Oct 4 at 2016 9:28 AM

SSG Jessica Bautista — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 09:28:21 -0400

Political correctness has very little to do with actual politics. For an easy formula:

Politics: purpose is to help your own interests

Politically correct: not being an *sshole

I'm going to make a motivational sign with that.

Response by SSG Ken Gilder made Oct 4 at 2016 10:15 AM

SSG Ken Gilder — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 10:15:18 -0400

As crude and crass as it sounds, the mission of the military, is to kill the enemy, and break his stuff. All else is secondary, and should be in support of that primary mission. One thing I adamantly oppose, is using the military for a social experimentation laboratory. Do that, and you run off a lot of good people.

Civilian supervision and control, fine. But let the people who know their jobs, do their jobs, with minimal interference from quacks and idiots what want to wussify the services.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Oct 4 at 2016 10:32 AM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 10:32:40 -0400

Each branch of the U. S. Military has its mission and ranking mechanism...do not "fix" what isn't broken.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Oct 4 at 2016 10:35 AM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 10:35:51 -0400

I believe the real question is how to change and improve those entities which are charged with more political influence such as the Senate, the House of Representatives and Congress.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Oct 4 at 2016 10:38 AM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 10:38:31 -0400

I do not believe America's Military is the proper environment for any "social experiments" leave that to the think tanks.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2016 10:54 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 10:54:50 -0400

Yes and yes they have gone the fucking extreme and has change the service and not for the better

Response by PO1 Roger Waddle made Oct 4 at 2016 11:29 AM

PO1 Roger Waddle — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 11:29:44 -0400

The whole country has became to politically correct bunch of unicorn bubble farting fairy dusting pussies

Response by MAJ Bill Darling made Oct 4 at 2016 12:23 PM

MAJ Bill Darling — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 12:23:34 -0400

As a non-Navy guy, I admit I struggle with the Navy rating system and part of me acknowledges that in an increasingly joint environment, a little more uniformity is probably helpful for reducing friction across the board. Having said that, given that both effectiveness and tradition are two cornerstones of the military, one should tread lightly when changing tradition, whether it is rank structure, head gear, initiation rituals, etc.

One of the other parts of that decision, the desire to remove "man" from so many words, smacks of political correctness though. Actors and actresses are known as actors. Fellow males and females are routinely referred to as guys. What's next, taking "man' out of "human resources"? Seems to be a little bit of overreach. Maybe Nostrodamus was right about Mabus...

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Oct 4 at 2016 1:56 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 13:56:27 -0400

SSgt David Tedrow I think a lot of politics goes together with Military, however most should be kept separate...and yes...Way TOO politically correct.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Oct 4 at 2016 3:21 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 15:21:12 -0400

Yesss the military is too politically correct. Especially since Pres Obama took over. "Do away with rating"? Never heard of the Army doing away with the rating/evaluations system. Unless you're referring to another kind of rating.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Oct 4 at 2016 3:59 PM

SGT James Murphy — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 15:59:01 -0400

Politics has ruined the military. This has always been so but never more so than today!

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Oct 4 at 2016 6:23 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 18:23:07 -0400

Sp4 Byron Skinner. Not to be critical SSgt. Tedrow but I think you forget the purpose of the military. We are the last resort when foreign or in the case of the Civil War domestic policy fails we are the solution to the issue…You have two different views of the function of the military. If policy fails we are the go to or we are just another function of foreign or domestic policy and can be used as threat, as the military often has or to be where the silk suits can't find ant other solution to a problem so they turn to the generals and Admirals and say kill 'em…In fact that was done this week in the South China Sea, a 15 year old policy of A2/AD was scrapped by CNO Admiral Richardson, perhaps the only member of the Chiefs of staff who know what's going including the Chief…The new policy as I read it for the USN, is if provoked shoot first and let the state department sort it out later. China's response is to redraw their three zones of defense, which are now more restrictive…It is noted that Zone 1 is about 600 miles away from the coast just out of range of carrier aircraft (F/A 18G)..For my Marine Friends find out about "Odyssey Lightning"…this is designed for the South China Sea and quick Company or Battalion size raids on thinly populated Islands. In and out fast with max combat power…The above is political correctness.

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Oct 4 at 2016 6:41 PM

SGM Harvey Boone — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 18:41:07 -0400

No there politics does not have a place in the military and yes the military has be too politically correct and way too much favoritism.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Oct 4 at 2016 7:11 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 19:11:21 -0400

No they don't and yes it has, as has political correctness in all walks of life. You can hardly breathe nowadays without it being considered offensive by some overly insecure or attention needy person or group..

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2016 2:30 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 02:30:49 -0400

I hate to see the Navy do away with rating within the ranks. How are we going to know who to make fun of anymore????

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Oct 5 at 2016 4:03 AM

SSG Mark Franzen — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 04:03:22 -0400

I think the military at one time was political but that was quite some time ago back in early 60 @ 70's

Response by MSG David King made Oct 5 at 2016 5:14 AM

MSG David King — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 05:14:37 -0400

The Military is politics. One does not "get there from here" without knowing people, kissing ass, or being part of a preferred group. "Politically correct" is a psycho-babble term used to justify all manner of stupidity. Courtesy and respect have always been at the core of military service and we simply do not need it redefined annually to know when someone has crossed the line. It's like "zero tolerance." Why do we need leadership if the decision to burn someone is predetermined?

Response by SSgt William Parker made Oct 5 at 2016 11:25 AM

SSgt William Parker — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 11:25:53 -0400

Each and every American Serviceman, who is a US Citizen, has the right and responsibility to exercise their right to express their political opinion by voting. You do not campaign for anyone while in uniform and if you live in base housing or the barracks you do not post political signs. It also maybe advisable to avoid political discussions so as to not offend others.
My biggest fear of today's military is that it is being used as a social experiment and ignoring that its primary function is the defense of the Nation.

Response by 2ndLt Fulton Recepcion made Oct 5 at 2016 12:43 PM

2ndLt Fulton Recepcion — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 12:43:55 -0400

POLITICS belong in the military TO A POINT.
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS is wrecking it! :(

Response by LTC Mark Beattie made Oct 5 at 2016 4:28 PM

LTC Mark Beattie — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 16:28:34 -0400

No, politics has no place in the military; and absolutely, the military has become too politically correct. I'm fortunate that I retired before senior leaders started pandering to politicians.

Response by MSG Don Burt made Oct 5 at 2016 6:43 PM

MSG Don Burt — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 18:43:43 -0400

This country's Military has been plagued with lousy politicians making lousy decisions sitting on their own arses whilst the Military has to suffer the consequences. In a word, yes, politics belong out of the Military, Period.

Response by SGT Chester Floyd made Oct 5 at 2016 7:36 PM

SGT Chester Floyd — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 19:36:30 -0400

A true Soldier follows orders. That Said, Soldiers of the Wehrmacht followed order and not agree whole heatedly with the politics of the State. The difference between the various SS Units vs. the Wehrmacht, ideology, training, tactics varied. Still today U.S Armored and Advanced Infantry Schools teach or at least touch on the tactics of the Wehrmacht in their use of Armor, Blitzkrieg, and the Air Deep Attack before a major assault; the only thing taught about the SS is the evil they subjugated the world too, they were soldiers in their own mind and that is as far as it went. To answer the discussion question the SS is a product of mixing Politics with the Military. That is the in the worse case scenario.

In this present situation of the military conforming to the whims of the State. In our present situation; we have all the building blocks for a demoralized, spoiled, unmotivated, Field Force. The current generation is one the worst to ever dawn the uniform. Many of them a centralist in their own mind and their moral values and their sense of being is very poor. This is the product of the State. The military should be that one tool where the bondo of the Civilian world is ripped away and then replaced with what the Force wants to be their.

Their are exceptions to every unit. I am looking at reports from Drill Sergeants, Drill Instructors and Various Cadre Training elements through out CONUS. Small unit leaders of the various Service have relayed that the undisciplined nature of many first year Servicemen and women in the eyes of the Staff NCO whose first year was in the early to mid 1990's are quickly looking for retirement, Field grade officers are as well seeking retirement not wanting to stay in service past twenty years. For officers this is a first, besides the period in the late 1970's.... in the early 1980's a newly elected president said "Fix it" and the Generals down through the Platoon Leaders fixed it. Recalling for temporary duty a great number of Senior NCO's to fix the problem. Many enlisted were relieved of their duties, some old manuals and ways of doing things were taken down off the shelf and dusted off. The Military fixed its self because the Highest Office in the land let them fix it.

Junior officer are already coming in indoctrinated to "Political Correctness" so their went that....
Its just a matter of time before the Generals are those new Platoon Commanders that adhear to political Correctness and the demands of society over the military..... thus goes the full force of the Country....

If something isn't done very very soon and we have to go up against a force that has been training their whole lives to kill us. North Korea, China, we are ....well fill in the blank. Our superior technology will be our best weapon. Chinese EMPS battlefield weapon technology has been advancing while our lack of motivation to harden our infrastructure and transportation vehicles against such threat is lagging. One on One the North Korean and Chinese soldier can out march, out dig, out dedicate and out discipline and in concerns to hand to hand out fight our Regular Infantry.

The next administration is being handed a military skeptical of its leadership in every area a serviceman mind may direct. A potential pool of recruits that seven in ten can not pass the ASVAB. twenty years ago that number was two our of ten had difficulty making a passing score to enlist.

This is just my opinion ..... like rear ends they are many and rarely smell good...