Does anyone think that certain aspects of military life make us a bad pick when it comes to a civilian career?

SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 13:51:11 -0500

I realize that we tend to be super detail-oriented and are used to taking charge of anything that we know needs to be done. I also realize that things in the civilian world tend to be at a 20 MPH when we have been running 110 MPH on active duty. I just feel that I am in the weeds in a job that observes from a 60,000 feet level and does not have a stakeholder role in anything we do. We are consultants. Bottom line: I know I need to slow down, lighten up, take a deep breath - but I'm amazed at the change at the moment. Wanted to hear the experiences of others. Thanks.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 2:00 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:00:00 -0500

I got out of active duty 13 years ago but I'm still in the reserves and at my job there are times when something needs to be done, and everyone waits around for the next person to do it or wait until they are told by the supervisor to do it. No one takes charge or the initiative to get it done , I'm usually the one who gets it done and some of them tell me "you don't have to do that let someone else do it". Another thing that bothers me too is that we wear uniforms and no one takes pride in their appearance. They come in to work with their uniform wrinkled, sometimes dirty, boots look scuffed up and dirty, shirts untucked, etc. And I can't blame them too much because our supervisors don't enforce the standards so how can you expect them to follow it.

Response by SFC Adam Potter made Jan 15 at 2016 2:00 PM

SFC Adam Potter — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:00:39 -0500

I think one aspect that veterans need to keep an eye on is holding people accountable, and how we go about it compared to civilians. Other veterans I have encountered have a difficult time applying the language "filter" in the civilian sector. When it comes to accountability there needs to be a great deal of tact involved, and others are easily "offended". Watching the volume and tone of voice, and body language is something veterans need to be conscious of, as our experiences and leadership style can be very abrasive to our civilian counterparts.
Just my opinion on the subject.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 2:05 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:05:54 -0500

I was going to disagree with you, based on the fact I believe prior military are among the best employees and far out preform others hands down, then I read what you wrote.

I wouldn't say it makes us a bad pick, I would say we have to recognize that in the civilian world the focus is on the individual and not on the goal of the organization.
What creates frustration, is that in the military, members are loyal to the organization, when someone gives you their word, that's it, whatever the issue is it's going to be taken care of 99% of the time. This is true because instead of everything being about the individual it is about a larger more important element, the successful completion of the mission.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 15 at 2016 2:24 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:24:17 -0500

Great question.

Sometimes it's about picking the correct tool (person) for the correct job/task.

"Do you really need a Mustang when a Kia will do?"

Although it's great to believe that "more is better" sometimes the old adage of "too much bike" or "too much gun" holds true as well. Can we (veterans) be adequately utilized in the roles we are being hired for? Or are the majority of our capabilities going to be "wasted" (under-utilized) which will lead to dissatisfaction or other issues?

So, I think your question can be answered with a "Yes, sometimes there will be a better pick with someone who is less 'invested' because of long-term potential within the specific position, as compared to a veteran."

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 2:31 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:31:04 -0500

We are not wired for mediocre.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2016 2:57 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:57:30 -0500

As a veteran, you have drive and determination that is sometimes lacking in other employees. Veterans make outstanding employees, but you have to realize that not everyone shares your passion to excel through hard word. When I worked on the Space Shuttle program, I worked 60 hour weeks because I wanted to perform at an excellent level. I was rewarded by being left alone to accomplish my tasks as I saw fit without interference. You have to realize that most employees will not be like you. Take a deep breath, lighten up, but do not slack up on your job.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jan 15 at 2016 3:28 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 15:28:27 -0500

Hard to say. I haven't run into any issues either readjusting to civilian life (Read: employment) or in terms of jobs not "getting" me.

When it comes to "aspects of military life [that] make us a bad pick" for civilian jobs, its rather subjective. Case in point: A guy from my old unit--he was infantry--was looking for a civilian cop job as he was about to get out. One department he was looking at strongly discouraged him from applying BECAUSE he was infantry, and the thinking, as it was presented to my battle buddy, was that the job of the infantry is to take lives whereas the job of a cop is to save lives 1st and foremost.
In this case, the police department felt that this guy's training and existence (for lack of a better word) as a grunt, made him unsuitable as a police officer. Obviously not all departments agree, hence subjectivity.

Response by SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury made Jan 15 at 2016 4:09 PM

SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 16:09:45 -0500

Just to add on - I would never say that the military MEMBER is a bad pick per se - I believe we are the cream of the crop. But having such a robust experience, being detail-oriented, and forced to work super hard for our prescribed time in active duty, it's probably a disservice to the MEMBER, not so much the civilian company.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 15 at 2016 9:29 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 21:29:35 -0500

I would probably be disgusted with the corporate climate and values.

Response by PO3 Frank Opalecky made Jan 15 at 2016 9:33 PM

PO3 Frank Opalecky — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 21:33:29 -0500

I believe that it depends on the work environment that you are looking at. In a job where a group in the work force encourages last luster performance it would be disastrous to have a "bull in the china closet". When I was hiring a team for manufacturing and later field service I looked almost exclusively at veterans. The non service people couldn't and wouldn't hang with the type of dedication that prior service members would show and were forced out by their piers. But that was the anomaly .

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Jan 15 at 2016 10:07 PM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 22:07:02 -0500

There are plenty of civilian workplaces that make the pace of the military seem incredibly slow. Maybe you're just not in the right field or working for the right company? I think it's not practical to categorize all civilian organizations the same way.

To answer the question though... one of the bad habits of those leaving the military is that we are all too often used to having things handed to us. Senior leaders constantly chase after you to complete steps so you can get promoted. Everything you need to succeed is available to you (though some choose not to take it). In the private sector, there is none of that. If you don't make the right opportunities happen for yourself you'll end up treading water forever or straight up drowning. Military folks are great at tactical initiative, but most are just not trained, or are even discouraged, to take strategic initiative.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2016 2:35 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 02:35:32 -0500

SCPO, from what I've experienced, good and bad, depending on your individual situation (environment). My opinion is that military service gives us a lot of tools, practical experience, leadership skills, etc. for us to excel or do better than the average bear. Talking about people that took what the military gave them and properly utilized them shouldn't necessarily impede them in performance on the civilian side.
I still have a hard time adjusting to certain things, the way people talk and treat each other, people moving slow and taking things for granted. I expect a return on the proper greeting of the day, and don't start me on accountability...... In conclusion, I do too have a great job, but everything is way too relaxed, slow and too calm for me, people holding their hands in their pockets, walking and talking on their phones, walking with covers indoors and not going to parade rest when addressing me, not police calling the parking lot.... ;) What kind of fuckery is this!?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2016 8:31 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 08:31:02 -0500

There are a lot of different angles to approach this one.

Let's start with a recently discharged Active Duty veteran. We have a high potential for physical capability and attention to detail. There is also no question to our work ethic. We show up and get the job done. There are also plenty of Servicemembers that get out because they can't handle the military life. They may or may not do well in the civilian after separation.

Employers have their own perceptions of who we are and what we do. They will have biases for or against your service before you even begin the interview. Some of them might be veterans themselves. Civilians might not understand our particular flavor of humor and be offended. They also might not value the same practices in their job that made you successful on Active Duty.

Then there is the Citizen Soldier situation. If you are either in a reserve force or joining one after separating from Active Duty, you will be facing another monster entirely. Your reserve job will only be part time, so not nearly enough to pay the bills. Your full time job well be the one that puts food on the table. Yet, you are going to apply for jobs with them knowing that they will have to work around your military training schedule if you are selected. Possible deployments make employers nervous too, and for good reason. Some companies will look favorably upon your service and support you. Others will find a reason not to hire you and distance themselves from dealing with USERRA further down the road. They may get federal or state tax benefits for hiring Veterans and current Servicemembers, so there is still a chance larger corporations with more workers would be willing to hire someone that will be gone a lot.

There are many pros and cons in any of these situations. Bottom line: be confident of your abilities and proud of your service. Present yourself in a professional manner and try not to give any impressions that you think yourself superior because of your service. Be polite and completely open about what your obligations are and how that would potentially affect the company you apply for. Do you backwards planning before hand. Come in with the answers to questions you know they will ask about your service.
Good luck.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 16 at 2016 11:06 AM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sat, 16 Jan 2016 11:06:55 -0500

I don't think there is a bad fit, unless you fail to channel your military attributes properly. If you find yourself fighting your boss all the time, you are probably doing it wrong.

The way we all speak needs to be carefully refined, as well as how engage peers and juniors.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2016 9:31 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 09:31:52 -0500

What is comes down to is, becoming lower speed while still being a great worker.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jan 18 at 2016 12:52 PM

Maj John Bell — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 12:52:15 -0500

I have been told that I'm very direct, very honest, and very "to-the-point"; and that some people find that un-nerving. When I ask people to expand on those issues they are quick to point out that I'm not rude, critical, ill-tempered, or unlikeable; just different.