Does anyone have any recommendations on how to handle a leave denial?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 16:30:41 -0500

I recently had a baby Nov 19, and I took the paternity leave directly afterwards. I have 25 days of leave accrued at this point, and I was speaking with my 1SG about taking 21 days of leave in Feb. That way we can take our baby home so that our families can meet him(I am stationed in Germany). My 1SG immediately shoots me down and says I cannot go on leave because I just came off leave(paternity leave). I understand I just came off leave, but is that really a justification for disapproval? There is not an FTX or anything important for the period I am requesting either. I have researched the issue and found out that leave approval is up to the justification of the commander, but I know my commander will do whatever my 1SG tells her to do. I have a good relationship with my command and I am expecting to get a promotion waiver in Feb so I really don't want to do anything to upset my command to where they don't promote me, but I haven't seen my family in over a year. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2019 5:18 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 17:18:16 -0500

Yea, pick a different time frame. Your 1SG isn't saying you can't take leave ever again....just not so soon. Either that, or shorten your number of days in Feb from 21 down to like 10. I mean, you're requesting damn near the entire month of Feb. Perhaps that is what your 1SG is looking at.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2019 5:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 17:32:37 -0500

Your 1SG isn't exactly wrong. Most units get opportunities for leave twice a year. While it certainly makes sense to go see your family, what is the issue with waiting until the next block leave/opportunity leave like everyone else? If your commander grants you an exception when your situation isn't exceptional, then they have to grant an exception everyone or else it's favoritism.
If it's so important you can't wait four more months, explain to your 1SG that you would be taking this leave in lieu of the opportunity leave in the summer. Otherwise, all your asking your 1SG is for an exception for a very routine occurrence (birth of a dependent).

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Dec 31 at 2019 6:14 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 18:14:29 -0500

You've got a few different paths you could take here. A lot of it depends on how many bridges you can afford to burn....

First thing that I looked at is the fact you are no where near use/lose status for accrued leave. As a Section Chief, I would most likely put you at the bottom of the priority list for troops requesting leave time, especially since you just returned from a leave period.

Second, you just returned from a leave status. Makes it more difficult to justify granting another block especially since you are asking for nearly the ENTIRE month of February (as pointed out by MSG Private RallyPoint Member). Just because YOU are not aware of any upcoming FTX, training, exercises, or other unit events does not mean there isn't something coming down the pipe. Some things are "close hold" until just before execution. Your CO, CSM, and 1SG are under no obligation to reveal that information premature as justification to deny leave. It sucks but many units have block leave restrictions for a reason. Even the AF had times you could or could not take extended leave periods. I hated it also but such is the fact of military service. If it helps any, I still didn't like the policy even as a SNCO but I had to (and did) abide by it.

Third, you could submit a leave form (I think the Army uses those like the AF did) in hopes of forcing the issue. There should be a block on the form where your CoC can annotate either approve or disapproval of the request. I'm betting as soon as your Platoon/Company leadership learns of the 1SG's denial, they will most likely be unwilling to sign as approving. Assuming the request is disapproved, use the form for later justification to regain any lost leave days in the event of a use/lose situation later on. WARNING: This tact will most likely sour the relationship you have with your CoC. Your entire supervisory chain will have to go on record as being against granting leave time. Putting your leadership in that situation is never a good thing.

Fourth, you could utilize your Commander's Open Door policy and speak with them directly. You'd have the opportunity to plead your case and hope to sway the CO to your side. You'll want to make sure your entire CoC is aware of the situation before you invoke that option. Letting your Platoon SGT or Company leadership get blindsided is a surefire way to make your life infinitely less pleasurable moving forward. WARNING: This tact will also most likely put you on the 1SG's s#*t list as the 1SG has already expressed disapproval and given valid justification for said denial. Any 1SG worth the rank will have all sorts of creative ways to make your life a living hell without giving the appearance of retaliation or harassment.

Also, keep in mind, unless the rules have changed from when I had a newborn overseas many airlines have a minimum age restriction (ie: baby must be at least two-three months old to travel). That may have changed (he is 20yrs old as of this posting). My infant son had to be six months of age before the airlines would allow him to travel. Both civilian and military aircraft had the restriction.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2019 6:26 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 18:26:54 -0500

For babies to fly: 2 months is the minimum of age....airlines prefer 4-6 months old before flying

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 31 at 2019 8:18 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 20:18:12 -0500

1. You can't handle it, you have to cope with it. 2. It is in the hands of your CO. 3. You just came off leave for crying out loud, and now you want another month? Just when are the other folks in your unit suppose to go on leave? 4. Think your child is too young to travel CONUS and probably need some shots. 5. If you aren't in the take or lose bucket, then you have no gripe. 6. I imagine everyone in the unit wants to go home, you had your leave now let someone else go. And finally, have you checked to see how many troops in your unit didn't get the chance to see their newborn till after a deployment? Sorry, PFC but the Mission always comes first, people second; either realize and live with or ETS out. Congrats on the baby.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2019 10:08 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2019 22:08:30 -0500

I have missed out on the last two block leave opportunities either because of pregnancy, or my child being too young to travel. On top of that, you have to use paternity leave within 45 days, I believe, which isn't feasible because the passport process takes so long. If anyone thinks I am here to gripe or complain, you are entirely wrong. I understand that the mission comes first, for crying out loud, it is in the soldier's creed. I am here to ask for guidance from Senior enlisted or officers on the issue. I have no problem waiting for 6 months to go home, it sucks, but it is part of the job. What I am concerned about is not allowing my family to meet their first grandson while he is young, which, after reading the responses, I will probably use my second option and send my family home by themselves. Thank you all for your guidance!

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jan 1 at 2020 12:21 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 00:21:52 -0500

"Is that really a justification for disapproval?"

Doesn't matter. Commander (or the 1SG acting on behalf of the Commander) does not need to justify leave approval or disapproval. It is nice and helpful when they do, and usually is the wise course of action (IMO). But it is not a requirement.

If I were your PSG, this would have never made it from you to 1SG. I would have squashed it ahead of time. You just came off leave. You can wait for the next block in the summer. Even if there are no MAJOR training events, there are still training events. Sending you on so much leave in such a short period of time hampers both individual and unit readiness.

Your request is far from "routine." I would give you a chance to plead your case (and the case you have stated here is not convincing). On the VERY unlikely chance you swayed me, then it would be ME talking to 1SG on your behalf.

The fact that this is not what has happened leads me to believe you entirely bypassed your PSG (and thus, very likely the rest of your CoC at PLT level). If that is so, you are now reaping your rewards.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2020 2:37 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 02:37:17 -0500

"1SG, When is a better time on the unit training schedule for me to take 21 days of leave?"
Now that the conversation is over you could have this discussion with your Squad leader to find out.

Response by PO3 Donald Freas made Jan 1 at 2020 6:04 AM

PO3 Donald Freas — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 06:04:22 -0500

Not Sure if this applies but didn't President Trump Just sign an EO for Paid family Leave in the last 30 Days or so. Hope this helps.