Does anyone have any insight on how to approach civilian employment contract negotiations (e.g. bonuses, wages, etc.)?

2016-10-16T18:01:15-04:00

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Oct 16 at 2016 6:24 PM

2016-10-16T18:24:06-04:00

Read the want ads & see what the going rate is for your knowledge & experience... that's your STARTING point

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Oct 16 at 2016 7:05 PM

2016-10-16T19:05:35-04:00

I am not completely clear that if your asking about a regular hire as a civilian into a private company or hire as a independent 1099 contractor but I can address the first since I have no clue on the second but I hear the second can be lucrative in some cases.

1. There is a website called glass door that will give you a rough approximation of what insiders get and give you a general info on a company though you have to remember it is viewing the company through someone elses lens and is not always accurate. (see website link below)

2. Generally it is considered in bad taste to raise the topic in your first interview unless the interviewer raises it first. You should wait until at least your hiring interview to raise the topic of Salary and Bonus'.

3. Bonuses in my long experience are based on the company and unless your in the Executive ranks or in Sales your not going to have much influence on them as they are based solely on job performance and meeting targets and are set at the Executive level based on pay level. You can ask what the performance inputs are into your bonus if your future company offers them but I think your not going to have any influence on the size unless your an Executive. Not all companies offer a bonus, so you can ask if they offer a bonus program and what are the criteria. If the answer is no to a bonus ask if stock options are given out as some firms give those out to very high performers in lieu of a bonus then attempt to keep it secret from other employees (it usually leaks out at some point). I get a bonus based on a billable hours target but if Sales sucks and it is beyond my ability to get that said bonus the company has been generous to me and given me a token bonus (far less than I would get for hitting target but better than nothing)............it's something you should ask about as well.

4. Remember also that Vacation time is negotiable for some companies (2 weeks annual to start or 3 weeks annual to start). Most companies that have troubles finding employees are moving to 3 weeks paid vacation a year plus 4-5 personal days. Almost becomming equal to the one month paid leave of the Army. If you put in 20 years already in the Army or are over 45, you really should ask for 3 weeks of vacation instead of taking the 2 they offer. Asking doesn't cost you a thing in my experience most companies will make an exception and give you 3 without too much push back. You have to handle this on a case by case basis depending on company. In my opinion if your 45 or older and they stick to 2 weeks only of vacation they are cheap bastards.

5. Likewise ask about working at home programs or flex time. More and more employers are embracing those as well. I haven't worked outside of my home since May and I am making well over 6 digits.........I can't tell you how nice that is. No commute time or commute costs I can sleep in if I want if there are no meetings or conference calls. Usually they do conference calls by skype so you still have to dress business casual somedays AND they might require you to sign a waiver that you have a home office that meets Federal office ergonomic and safety standards. But if you can try for the work at home option if they offer it. It's worth easily $7-10k in Salary with the money you save personally. If they offer the work at home option, they should cover expenses for a cell phone (100%), home phone (optional if they cover cell phone) and Internet (100%).

https://www.glassdoor.com/index.htm

Glassdoor – Get Hired. Love Your Job.

Glassdoor helps you find a job and company you love. Reviews, salaries and benefits from employees. Interview questions from candidates. Millions of jobs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2016 7:24 PM

2016-10-16T19:24:13-04:00

Let me clarify some more. Currently with the Company. Signed and negotiated a entry level Management contract. Interviewed (VTC), and will be doing site visit (same company/different location) for a higher level Management position. Entry level contract was pretty cut and dry. Now I'm delving into "unknown territories" with more "complex" negotiations for the higher position.

Response by SPC Greg K. made Oct 18 at 2016 7:08 AM

2016-10-18T07:08:15-04:00

I don't mean to plug a book but, I'd highly suggest reading a book called "Never Split the Difference", negotiating like your life depended on it, by Chris Voss. He's one of the preeminent practitioners and professors of negotiation skills in the world. He founded the Black Swan Group and teaches at California's Marshal School of Business and Georgetown University's McDonough School of Business. These techniques apply whether negotiating a job, getting a raise, buying a car, buying a home, negotiating rent, going golfing with the boys or getting the kids to bed. The techniques will give you an edge in ANY negotiation.....the author was an FBI hostage negotiator, and this book has some great stories on his negotiation strategies.....it's a great book and a fast read. It has helped me many times already. I ONLY WISH I READ THIS "BEFORE" I TOOK MY LAST JOB!!! I certainly could have gotten a better starting rate. NEVER GIVE THEM A SALARY NUMBER!!!! You have to plant seeds during the interviews on a range of things to get where you want to be and more!!!! Sorry for the commercial, but it is a great book!!!!

Response by SFC William Sutherland III made Oct 18 at 2016 7:51 AM

2016-10-18T07:51:50-04:00

Your question doesn't really hit the mark? Usually a civilian position will point to a scale of wages depending on a myriad of issues; experience;- education; job position -I.,e., manager level - director etc,. But normally wages are like a poker game. You wait until all the hands are played and you lay down your "full house!" Don't discuss any wages until you get a second interview! During the first interview try to explain why you are the best person for this position!

Response by LCDR Rich Bishop made Oct 18 at 2016 8:46 AM

2016-10-18T08:46:03-04:00

Hey SFC Springman, 1) They will ask how much are you looking for, don't answer this, ask them what does the job pay? 2) Tell them they need to be fair as in the first two weeks you find out how your salary and benefits align to similar personnel and if they short change you will be upset and most-likely leave which will be a lose lose to both. Try to align your capabilities and describe how you will help the company grow. Discuss upward mobility and your ability to bring positive change. In industry there is a lot of dog eat dog, there is a lot of sniping, teamwork and everyone working toward the leadership vision is only good for those who get the credit and others will try to take credit for your work. You will also have a retirement check coming in where others don't thus making them more insecure.

Response by SSG Wayne Wood made Oct 18 at 2016 10:44 AM

2016-10-18T10:44:02-04:00

I wish there had been some sort of assistance in this when I left service as it would have helped me a lot. To this day I don't know whether I cracked the code on "selling myself", I was able to work my way into the position I stayed in for over eighteen years by moving from a part-time/temporary role and impressing people with my performance. Had I been better at the interview process, I learned later, they would have hired me right off. It turned out okay, but boy - what a rough start.

Response by MSG Mamerto Perez made Oct 18 at 2016 10:55 AM

2016-10-18T10:55:48-04:00

Just be yourself and strive for better things.

Response by TSgt Scott Franks made Oct 18 at 2016 11:54 AM

2016-10-18T11:54:15-04:00

While everything mentioned so far is great for the US job market, it gets a bit more complex when dealing with a contract for overseas employment in pre / post / or currently in conflict environments. Salary and benefits in these types of jobs vary widely due to the type of contract the company has and it's requirements, job position and security requirements, current and expected levels of risk, method of payment and currency the company is using, and finally nationality of both the applicant and the company. Having worked both sides of this, I can tell you that you will need to really understand the situation before you can effectively negotiate the terms of your employment. One major clause that some seem to miss is the requirement that you can only discuss any terms of your contract with the HR representative.
Hope you can make it work for both you and the company.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2016 11:59 AM

2016-10-18T11:59:47-04:00

I used the statement - Both of us know what this job should receive. You do as you need. If you are fair we will both be happy.

It actually worked okay for me.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2016 12:41 PM

2016-10-18T12:41:12-04:00

I'll answer a little more than you asked.

When I retired in 1990 I had three companies interested in me. I had the fortunate experience of working closely with defense contractors my last six years in the Air Force.
Company 1: they were seriously interested and I never discussed salary with the hiring managers. At the last part of the interview process they sent me to see their HR manager who happened to be a retired Air Force Lt Col. I knew I had not interest when he stated, "We know what your retired Air Force Major's pay will be..." end of my interest in that company.
Company 2: major interest but due to their internal bureaucracy it was taking weeks to get me an offer.
Company 3: major interest and they quickly gave me an offer of $70,000 which I accepted. This was in 1990. I used my earnings statement in stating my salary requirements which included the tax benefits.

Ok, I know that won't work for everyone but that was my experience when I retired. As others have said leave the salary discussions to the end of the interview process.

Response by SSG Hank Ortega made Oct 18 at 2016 2:39 PM

2016-10-18T14:39:30-04:00

I used a set of books by Martin Yate for my basic interview knowledge. I had a long career in medicine, and had to field unusual questions, and had to research out not only the area of expertise, but also the employer, and the competition.
Yate's books cover all of that, and give you lists of possible answers for those hard to answer questions (like where do you see yourself in 5 years, or tell us a bit about yourself, or worst of all, what do you expect for pay?). Since you are a senior NCO, you already flexibility is the key, and being pre-warmed up. These books do the job. Updated annually, they are the "Knock 'Em Dead" series, covering interviews, research, cover letters, and resume's.
I never failed to get a job I actually wanted, I never failed to get an invite to an interview I wanted, and I never failed to get a raise in the amount I wanted once I read and digested, and implemented the knowledge in these books.
While they are written for the business world, I was able to apply the ideas to medicine, and could apply them to any field of employment. Check them out in the library if you wish, but I predict you would soon start giving them to graduating young people as I do now.
Good luck

Response by CPO Zack Lindsey made Oct 18 at 2016 2:46 PM

2016-10-18T14:46:23-04:00

Wish I could help there but they have really done so much transition classes sense I have went in to this. Part of my life plus I'm not able to work, but I have heard a few people in the hiring position saying they would like military personnel cause of work ethics, but also heard the people that work in the places they don't like military going in cause it makes them look bad

Response by CPL Kevin Lloyd-Thomas made Oct 18 at 2016 9:20 PM

2016-10-18T21:20:18-04:00

Hi There. I'm Kevin Lloyd-Thomas, an Australian Army, Infantry, Vietnam veteran of two tours and I'd like to put you in contact with Tom Wolfe, ex US Navy. His website is http://www.out-of-uniform.com His book "Out of Uniform Your Guide to Successful Military to Civilian Career Transition" will give you a complete roadmap and will give you everything you need to answer your question and much more. You will most likely find a copy in your local library, or they could get it in for you. Better still, buy a copy because you can then always have it as a reference for the future. I bought my copy on Amazon.
Tom has over 30 years experience working with no one else but men and women leaving the military.
My link with Tom is that I will be listing his book and his Company in the resources section of my own book which will be published early in the New Year. "Beat PTSD, How a Combat Soldier Overcame Chronic Post Traumatic Stress To Live A life That Matters And How You Can Too"
SPC Greg K's comment is also worth following up, as is SSG Hank Ortega. You can never have enough information even though you are currently employed.
It could also be of value to consider letting the readers on this site know how you went.
By doing this you are giving back to the military and veteran community and your experience will definitely help others.
If you do go to Tom's website and decide to communicate with him, then please use my name.
if there's anyone else who is reading this thread and is about to go through this process or something similar, then please do the same

Response by CW3 Susan Burkholder made Oct 18 at 2016 9:29 PM

2016-10-18T21:29:52-04:00

You should probably be more specific. You'll get more targeted or useful advice. The range of companies out there is pretty big. Conventional wisdom is that senior hires often negotiate, junior employees (positions) usually don’t have much leverage.
The size and structure of the company will also impact your ability to negotiate. A large company will likely have greater resources to expend on employee benefits, but it also may have more intractable policies, giving you less flexibility to adapt your benefits than you might find at a smaller company.
A senior hire may find that almost all contract points are negotiable, whereas a recent college grad will have less power to change the package.
You have research the company and find out for example; whether the company's policies even allow for bonuses. If the company does not have a bonus policy then there is nothing to negotiate.

Don't try to negotiate health care - ACA (the law) does not allow companies to negotiate health benefits.

Response by CPO Gary Andrews made Oct 18 at 2016 10:31 PM

2016-10-18T22:31:48-04:00

You will get the prevailing rate for your position with regard to others. There is nothing you can do about that dealing with HR, which are a bunch of puckered up assholes. They love to fuck with peoples' lives. As instead for three weeks vacation, and tell them that you are worth it. You have had 30 days leave weather you needed it or not, but don't tell them that. This is a no cost to the company request. And if they deny it, run.

Response by MAJ Norm Michaels made Oct 19 at 2016 6:33 PM

2016-10-19T18:33:26-04:00

There are other things that are negotiable that are often overlooked. For first instance, Vacation Allowance. Hiring Managers may not have the authority to go above a certain number for the salary; however, most are cleared to increase the starting vacation days. Many companies simply start all new employees at 2 weeks of vacation without regard to the seniority of the new employee. VACATION DAYS ARE NEGOTIABLE. Ask for three weeks; ask for four! Let the hiring person nudge you back down from four to three if necessary. When do the health or retirement account benefits start? NEGOTIABLE. When are you vested into the company? That is NEGOTIABLE also. My 32 year old son did not negotiate his health and death benefits when he switched from his ten year company to another. He died of an enlarged heart in his second month on this new job. His pregnant wife got nothing from the new company, other than a passed hat by his new coworkers. VACATION and BENEFIT start dates are NEGOTIABLE.