Does a good staff Officer, make a good Company Commander? How important is this to consider when pairing Company level Command teams?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 23:47:46 -0400

Company level Command teams and the struggle to maintain a successful Command.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 11:49 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 23:49:43 -0400

It depends on a lot of things because not all staff officers are good commanders.

Response by MSG Phil Herndon made Apr 23 at 2015 11:51 PM

MSG Phil Herndon — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 23:51:56 -0400

I think it's opposite. A good company commander should make a better staff officer

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 6:33 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 06:33:43 -0400

Good staff officers do not always make good commanders. Some officers (NCOs as well) excell better in the battalion staff then they do (or did) in leadership positions in the unit.
I recall when assigned to 3rd Bn 10th Inf. Regt at Ft. Polk in the 70s when our line company commanders were 1LTs. They tended to do well for the most part even though there development as battalion level staff officers was still in the early stages being either an assistant S2, 3, 4.

I also recall, some staff officers that though they did not "excel" in their staff officer positions, went on to be good unit commanders and even excelled. Then, in my experience, the damn good unit commanders I served with as I came up through the ranks were also damn good staff officers. For the most part, even though they excelled in both, none of them enjoyed the battalion staff assignments. They all were biting at the bits to get back to the unit as unit leaders/commanders.

Plus, they also realized that unless they were fortunate enough to get offered the opportunity for a 2nd troop, company, battery command offer, they knew were doomed for staff assignments until they got selected for LTC and an battalion command billet.

I would have to say, from my experience as a 1SG (almost 7 yrs) as both E7 & E8, I had 3 commanders who did not excell in the staff, nor were they good commanders, the others who were good staff officers, did well and several were super commanders.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 24 at 2015 7:07 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 07:07:35 -0400

To be a good well rounded leader one must understand the staff and what goes into supporting the command and the mission. These things are learned being a staff officer/NCO.

Leadership is a whole different ball of wax. A good staff officer /NCO may not make a good leader as leadership traits are much different than staff traits. I will say good leaders usually make good staff officers /NCOs due to the amount of decisions needing to be made, many times without hesitation.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 9:18 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:18:05 -0400

I think there is a difference between a manager and a leader. You need one of each in a command team in order to excel. It is pretty unusual that early in an officer's career to have developed both traits.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 5:11 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:11:31 -0400

No. Not at all. I have seen staff officers that were great at staff and completely sucked at being part of a command team.
But officers need that staff time to help develop them. In my branch I can tell which CPTs were company XOs and those that were not. The biggest tell is their approach to maintenance.
The biggest fail point I see is the failure to understand as a Commander you are part of a two man team. I have seen great staff NCOs fail at this too in the 1SG seat. You have to be a solid unit when facing the formation and when facing the higher command. When on staff, sure you have a shop, but it is usually just you facing the old man when things go sideways. Some folks can't let that go and it ruins the team

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Apr 24 at 2015 5:28 PM

1SG Cameron M. Wesson — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:28:07 -0400

1SG Private RallyPoint Member my 2 cents... After 6 commanders... It is my opinion that whether a young officer makes a good commander after their initial staff time (remember... normally just an Asst Staff) is how the young officer was mentored in their respective staff position by the principal staff officer (normally a former commander), the BN XO, the BN CDR... and additionally did the CSM and the SNCO in the section help and participate in their mentorship. With this said, even the best mentors in the world with the best intentions can't guarantee they will spawn a great commander... or vice versa.

Additionally, I would submit that there is an additional consideration for both staff officers... and NCOs... that we are failing to acknowledge. This consideration should be in the stark difference in being a staff leader... or a staff manager... and at CAC I see this play out all the time. An officer that was a good tactical commander.... struggles being a staff leader... vice manager.

I'll explain...

The staff leaders are those leaders that provide clear guidance and direction during planning, training, and execution... they educate themselves and get dirty because sections are only so large... and are proactive to the mission. They reach out across the formation and establish relationships that play as a force multiplier... they help the Commander (and their staff brothers and sisters) in their Mission Command responsibilities (ADP/ADRP 6-0)

The staff manager tends to be reactive. Guidance and direction are sketchy... and some times nonexistent. These folks tend to wait for the mission... they a very good (most times) at their given position; however, as they don't build teams (their own or others) or influence outside there circle of interest to build relationship... there only marginal. They also wait for the challenges to arise.

In these two scenarios... I was 2 for 2 for commanders I had that were good staff leaders (I witnessed one grow... got the other after training but new his OPS NCO) and good commanders.

While not earth shaking empirical data that I would want to use for a dissertation argument... still... out of 6 commanders those data points are something to consider.

3 three were good commanders that were never on staff prior to commander... and in later staff positions only one fared well. The last one, actually my second CO, he served a the asst S6 and well... he tried very hard to be both a good commander and a good staff officer (not leader)... and as Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that" as I admired him for the fact that he tried very hard, he listened, and he helped me take care of the soldiers... sometimes I feel I let him down... but the CSM told me after I found out he was damn near "Atlas" on the Group Commanders profile, "Wes... no matter how hard we try to make them better... some guys are just mediocre at best." It just hurt (my pride if you will) that my CO was not at least in the upper 50%.

Well my 2 cents.... sorry for the long windiness

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Apr 24 at 2015 9:41 PM

1SG Brian Adams — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 21:41:53 -0400

Sure! Look, these officer' s are trained basic combat knowledge. This is what we are talking about. If teamed up with a strong Senior Non Com, there should be no problems with these types of logistics and Op Orders!
When you say Company Commander, I am thinking a Captain or perhaps a Major. Remember, whether you know it or see it, these officers get trained by you First Sergeants out there in the field.
Good luck!

Response by 1SG Jeffery Bertram made Apr 27 at 2015 7:35 PM

1SG Jeffery Bertram — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:35:01 -0400

My current Company Commander was prior enlisted NC and is a much better Commander than the others in the BN that had staff jobs and no prior enlisted experience. I've been a 1SG for 4 years, and have just had 2 Company Commanders, both prior enlisted, both bright, tough and fair! I've enjoyed working with both and consider myself lucky to have served with them.

Response by SGM(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 10:41 AM

SGM(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:41:48 -0400

In my experience, they can. It depends on the officer. If they have not gotten overly focused on the staff function and are still willing to be attentive to the 1SG's input you can have a strong commad team. It starts from the begining. Head strong "my way" commanders will find life hard when fighting against their 1SG. Open minded Officers that take the 1SG's role as senior enlisted advisor seriously and listen to his years of experience usually come out better commanders.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 1:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 May 2015 13:14:39 -0400

I have seen both good and bad. A leader. Having served as a S3 NCOIC and 1SG each job has its own set of requirements. They don't always translate to each other. Staff leadership requires organization and indirect leadership skills. The sphere of influence is very different. Where the company leadership team requires direct leadership and the ability to develop vertical command influence. Not everyone is suited for each job. I have seen great commanders getting eaten up on staff and great staff get hammered in leadership roles. What should be more important then check the block is putting the right soldier into the right position. That should be the standard for all levels.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 11:35 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 May 2015 23:35:32 -0400

Some are great at one, some are great at the other, some are great at none, and some are great at both. They are two different kinds of leadership. Successful staff officers, build trust, plan, manage, mitigate, advise, influence, and support. A great staff officer understands their roll (advise the command, support subordinate units by providing the support & time they need to plan, train and execute.
A great commander will make the hard decisions, treat their personnel fairly, award appropriately, and inspire. (Not through fear) When I think back to the commanders I would follow anywhere, I remember the men and women that took their PT test with me, that made common sense decisions, and acted in the interest of their Soldiers.
Good commanders will be great commanders with the right staff, and good staff will be great staff with the right commanders. Certain leadership qualities will shine no matter where an officer is slotted.
One place where I think command should come before staff...S-3, I think that is essential. You need to be able to understand the tertiary effects of orders, and how they will impact a company, so that you can take those lessons (hard learns or easily won) and apply them to make it better for your replacements.