DOD should improve gun safety and take other “high-priority” steps to reduce service member suicides, independent panel says

2023-03-01T11:57:24-05:00

The Pentagon should improve gun safety on military property and take other “high-priority” steps to curb rising rates of service member suicides, according to a report issued late last month by an external review panel set up by the U.S. Department of Defense (DOD).

The report, released Feb. 24 by the Suicide Prevention and Response Independent Review Committee (SPRIRC), recommended nearly 130 policy changes to improve safety across the service branches.

Recent DOD data showed that the rate of death by suicide among service members has ticked up since 2011. Even though the 2021 rate was lower than that recorded in the prior year, DOD said 519 active-duty, National Guard and reserve service members died by suicide, with younger enlisted men being most at risk.

DOD can reverse these trends by implementing the SPRIRC’s recommendations, many of which overlap with and add to reforms put forth previously by DOD, public health and clinical experts, according to the committee, led by Dr. Gayle Y. Iwamasa, national director of inpatient mental health services at the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs.

“One conclusion of the SPRIRC,” the authors of the report wrote, “is that persistently elevated suicide rates in the DOD result in no small part to the DOD’s limited responsiveness to multiple recommendations that have been repeatedly raised by independent reviewers and its own experts.”

Gun safety measures merit DOD’s high-priority attention, panel argues

Although bound to be politically controversial, gun safety measures comprised about one-third of the 23 so-called high-priority recommendations — those “most likely to result in the largest reductions in suicide and have an overall benefit to service members and the DoD.”

Gun-related recommendations “are not strategies for gun control, but they are strategies focused on enhancing safety,” said committee member Dr. Craig Bryan, clinical psychologist and professor of psychiatry at Ohio State University, during a media roundtable discussion transcribed by DOD. They included:

• Repealing and replacing a law that prohibits the defense secretary from collecting or recording any information related to firearms or ammunition privately owned by a service member or DOD civilian employee.
• Standardizing DOD-approved firearm safety training so it covers topics such as suicide prevention, safe gun use and storage, and other best practices.
• Implementing a seven-day waiting period for any firearm purchased on DOD property.
• Implementing a four-day waiting period for ammunition purchases on DOD property after the purchase and receipt of a firearm bought on DOD property.
• Raising the minimum age to 25 years for purchasing firearms and ammunition on DOD property.
• Requiring anyone living on DOD property in military housing to register all privately owned firearms with the installation’s arming authority and to securely store all privately owned firearms in a locked safe or with another locking device.
• Establishing DOD policy restricting the possession and storage of privately owned firearms in military barracks and dormitories.

Given “that a significant percentage of on-base suicides involve firearms purchased on base at military exchanges,” Bryan added, “taking steps to slow down convenient access to highly lethal methods, like firearms, is the single most effective strategy for saving lives.”

Joining Iwamasa and Bryan in undertaking the comprehensive review of DOD suicide prevention programs were other experts in public and mental health, epidemiology, sexual assault, lethal means safety, service member and family support services, and civilian employment. Thousands of service members and their families and civilian and support service providers also offered insight.

Other recommendations

Grouped according to high, moderate and low priority, the recommendations were connected to the following four pillars of the National Strategy for Suicide Prevention:

• Healthy and empowered individuals, families and communities.
• Clinical and community preventive services.
• Treatment and support services.
• Surveillance, research and evaluation.

They focused on restructuring suicide prevention training, providing additional resources to help service members access existing support services, promoting lethal means safety and emphasizing leader stewardship in addressing service member needs.

Other high-priority recommendations included addressing in training the risks of excessive alcohol use; centralizing responsibility for core suicide prevention activities common to all services; modernizing suicide prevention programs across the military career cycle; reducing delays in pay; and expediting the hiring of behavioral health professionals.

In a Feb. 24 news release, however, the Pentagon didn’t commit to implementing any specific policy change.

“The Department of Defense,” the statement said, “recognizes that suicide is a complex issue with no single cause or solution but is committed to promoting the well-being, health, and morale of their Total Force and preventing suicide within their ranks.”

Learn more

Read the full list of SPRIRC recommendations: https://rly.pt/3y37hpa

Read the DOD news release: https://rly.pt/3EN70L4

Read the media roundtable transcript: https://rly.pt/3KMOuWI

Read the latest DOD report on rates of death by suicide in the military: https://rly.pt/3J0Vhd9

3y37hpa

Response by CWO4 Terrence Clark made Mar 1 at 2023 12:09 PM

2023-03-01T12:09:01-05:00

You are likely surprized that I choose to file these recommendations in the bullsh*t! locker.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 1 at 2023 1:55 PM

2023-03-01T13:55:07-05:00

Look, there are already regs covering not being able to store weapons in gov't quarters, they must be stored in unit arms rooms and signed out with the permission of the CoC. Guns just don't lay around legally!

Response by MSG Billy Brumfield made Mar 1 at 2023 3:50 PM

2023-03-01T15:50:26-05:00

Improve gun safety to reduce suicides? Why not require PT Belts 24/7?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2023 3:53 PM

2023-03-01T15:53:15-05:00

I have seen this happen a good bit. While at Fort Benning I have had to deal with a few young officers that choose this path. In all of those cases they had alcohol and access to firearms. One had a firearm on post illegally and the other lived off post. As a commander I have requested Soldiers to store their firearms in the armsroom. We need to do a better job as leaders to know where the risk is. The last one I had in my company came out of nowhere. It is always truly sad.

Response by LTC Trent Klug made Mar 1 at 2023 8:55 PM

2023-03-01T20:55:37-05:00

What they are saying is they want zero military personnel to have privately owned weapons in their homes. Either on post, base, or off-post housing.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 2 at 2023 6:24 AM

2023-03-02T06:24:22-05:00

Not IAW the second amendment. It is truly very sad when a Service member ( or anyone) takes their own life, that does not however mean that the rights of others should be impeded. If this would be the case then we would have no civil rights.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2023 10:13 AM

2023-03-02T10:13:17-05:00

Fools. The numbers are much higher. Soldiers are engaging in extremely high risk behavior to capture the adrenalin rush from their combat tours. Its killing them

Response by SFC Eddy Meador made Mar 3 at 2023 12:27 PM

2023-03-03T12:27:17-05:00

Are they playing Duck, Duck, Goose?

Response by SGT Ruben Lozada made Mar 3 at 2023 6:02 PM

2023-03-03T18:02:00-05:00

Excellent post. Thank You for sharing this. But, I disagree with this article, because it sounds as if they want all Military members not to own any type of weapons.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 3 at 2023 8:46 PM

2023-03-03T20:46:43-05:00

Perhaps we can do a better job of helping people with PTSD? If someone is suicidal and intent on committing suicide a lack of gun might not stop them. Let's take away vehicles, prescription medication, ropes, belts, and razors as well. The root problem is PTSD.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2023 5:02 PM

2023-03-04T17:02:02-05:00

I don't think "safety" and suicides are correlated. Being safer isn't going to prevent suicides. I will agree being safer will help prevent accidents.

What is correlated with suicided by firearms is ACCESS to firearms, but they call it safety as a ruse.

Now, I'm going to get a lot of heat for this. I think there is a propensity for folks at their wits end to get out of bad situations in life to join the military. I don't know what those numbers are, but I theorize they are statistically significant.

So those that make it into the system who were running from other things in life now find themselves in a system that is astronomically even more controlling and where even smaller things in life are a bigger deal (like being the last one out of bed at 0500 becomes the END OF THE WORLD) I can see why there is a statistically significant correlation to suicides in the military. There is a sub population of folks that join the military who are at the staged of "screw my life, I'm joining the military". Then when they do join, and the military isn't the solution they were running too, and now they are trapped, what options do we think they explore next?

I was never more concerned about my physical safety in the military than while in BCT, and less so in AIT (because I was in intel, and at least my peers and I were vetted for TS/SCI so we were a little less on the crazy scale).

Basic Training was all about: "Good Lord, get me away from these lunatics that snuck through MEPS".

Then I became a Company Commander, and welp, some of them snuck through MEPS. I'm fortunate to say no one killed themselves under my watch, but the whole time I have my hunches, some of them needed the preventative services the military offers, and we got them there.

But I could see it a mile away. Some soldiers need an extra eye.

As long as the military is a location folks can try and fall back on in life as a last desperate attempt to right their lives the challenge with suicide is always going to be statistically significant to our CDC categorized career field.

If the military was only filled with happy go lucky folks who have their shit together suicides will plummet.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 9 at 2023 7:12 AM

2023-03-09T07:12:53-05:00

Sadly there are many ways one can kill themselves. Guns are fast and effective. You take everyone’s guns, it becomes more brutal with less success rate, more pain for the one committing suicide.

I am not trying to be glib, just the way I see it. Military installations already have rules and regs on base, can’t do anything for off base housing, so that’s it for me. Very sad no matter how it happens.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2023 7:49 AM

2023-03-09T07:49:01-05:00

None of these steps will be effective to prevent suicide but they will negatively impact the lives of gun owning service members.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2023 8:20 AM

2023-03-09T08:20:36-05:00

"Taking methods to slow down convenient access to highly lethal methods, like firearms, is the single most effective strategy for saving lives."

What?! So to address the problem of mental health we're NOT going to address the problem of mental health?

That's like saying the best way to keep people from obesity is to take food away from them.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Mar 11 at 2023 1:41 PM

2023-03-11T13:41:22-05:00

I see the same old arguments with no viable solutions offered.

Response by SGT Brian Jarvi made Mar 11 at 2023 4:01 PM

2023-03-11T16:01:37-05:00

It’s bad enough that the Army sends you into harms way with an M-16 with a 3 foot max effective range, now you can’t have a privately owned weapon. I’m so tired of them just glossing over the problem. It’s not the God-Damned guns. They can’t do it by themselves.Fix the problem with mental illness and PTSD

Response by CPT Ryan Kelly made Mar 13 at 2023 11:18 AM

2023-03-13T11:18:43-04:00

We, as service members, are all leaders or have led in some capacity. Let me ask you guys: If one of your soldiers showed signs of major depression, PTSD, alcoholism, and suicidal tendencies, and had access to personal firearms, what actions would you take?

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Mar 14 at 2023 4:08 PM

2023-03-14T16:08:28-04:00

Executive summary and bottom line - This action is just a dog and pony show of appeasement and nothing more. It really has little to nothing to do with suicide prevention other than to make some people feel good about themselves.

It is sad to note that our current crop of leaders have either ignored the lessons that they were taught or they completely dismiss them. What is really sad, we have an organization called the Sgt Audie Murphy Club (SAMC) that has supplanted the original Sgt. Morales Club and the current Sergeant Morales Club which in its original form was to impart such lessons on our military leadership, are such a huge failures.
What is even more sad - that the Sergeant Morales story has changed from its original form and the organization bows to the SAMC. Here is a part of the problem:
Current Sgt. Morales Club statement:
The organization embraces the same attributes as the U.S.
Army’s Sergeant Audie Murphy Club.
Well the SAMC was established in or around 1986, while the Sgt Morales Club was established 13 years prior in 1973.
Now compare the two Sgt. Morales stories -
Sergeant Morales Story
After completing a tour with a stateside division, Sergeant Morales was selected for an overseas tour in Germany. He was assigned to a unit that was part of USAREUR. Before coming to Germany, he had completed his high school education, continued to improve his command of the English language, and kept himself in top physical condition. When he arrived at his unit, Sergeant Morales immediately settled in and used his experience and leadership techniques. He began his duty day in the barracks when his squad awoke in the morning, participated with his soldiers in physical training, ate his meals in the unit dining facility, organized and supervised the routine housekeeping and work details, and prepared the squad for the day’s training requirements. During the course of his supervision, he was not reluctant to get his hands dirty.
Sergeant Morales made sure that the members of his squad were trained in their military occupational specialties. In addition, he stressed the tactical, technical know-how that makes a better soldier. Race relations and equal opportunity were not new to him; he lived them.
The M113 was new to Sergeant Morales, but maintenance was not. He readily applied his knowledge to the M113. He took a hard look at the accountability of his soldiers, as well as the accountability, cleanliness, and serviceability of individual and squad property.
Sergeant Morales kept a leader’s notebook containing personal data on each soldier. In addition, he kept a soldier’s job book describing the proficiency of each soldier.
Sergeant Morales counseled his soldiers monthly in personal and job-performance areas. The counseling records reflected complimentary as well as derogatory information. The information from the leader’s notebook, soldier’s job book, and counseling was used to guide his soldiers in promotion, proficiency, and career development, including their professional and academic education. He frequently held meetings with his squad, keeping members informed of what was going on. They discussed training, problems, and areas in which the squad performed well, and sought recommendations for improvement. The soldiers in Sergeant Morales’ squad knew exactly where they stood.
The squad was united, including family members and friends, through social gatherings in the unit and community. He took pride that no squad member had ever been absent without leave. This was attributed to his personal concern for every member of his squad.
Sergeant Morales was proud of the personnel in his squad, their outward appearance, and the way they proudly wore their uniforms. Conduct and bearing were of the highest standards at all times. He ensured newly assigned members were properly oriented, sponsored, processed, and introduced to all other squad members at the first opportunity. Rehabilitated soldiers in his squad were accepted and treated the same as newly assigned squad members. Sergeant Morales took additional steps in guidance counseling and training to help the rehabilitated soldiers become effective members of the team.
The care Sergeant Morales showed for his soldiers resulted in the squad’s achievements during annual general inspections, Army Training and Evaluation Team evaluations, and maintenance evaluation team findings.
Sergeant Morales led by example. He showed true concern for his soldiers and their family members. He took great pride in his soldiers, his unit, and his country. Sergeant Morales was a member of the NATO Team. He was a leader.

Now the current version -
Sergeant Morales Story as per AER 600-2
Sergeant Morales was a squad leader for 3 years in an engineer battalion of a U.S. Army division. He was the proverbial “98-pound weakling” and had not completed high school—only the GED program. Of Puerto Rican descent, he had only a limited command of English. Despite his physical limitations, lack of formal education, and minority-group status, he strove for and achieved the highest caliber of leadership.
Sergeant Morales began his day by coming from his home to the barracks as his squad was awakening. They participated together in PT and work details as well as unit training. Sergeant Morales pitched right in with the disliked drudgery-type details. He led by example, particularly when it meant getting his hands dirty. In his pre-Army life, Sergeant Morales had some experience as a barber. At the end of the month, when money was scarce in his squad, he arranged for his Soldiers’ hair to be cut. He kept a pocket notebook with one page for each member of his squad devoted to personal data: background, education, family, MOS, problems, and so on. At least once a month, everyone in the squad and their spouses got together, socialized, and discussed problems at his quarters. During his 3-year tenure, no one in his squad went AWOL, which he attributed to knowing his Soldiers, keeping them informed, and watching out for their interests. His squad consistently placed first in company Army training tests. All of Sergeant Morales’s accomplishments were achieved despite the fact that his squad received misfits from other units for rehabilitation.
While in the division, Sergeant Morales completed high school and the equivalent of 2 years of college. Sergeant Morales had a lot in his favor but no special advantages. He just worked at his job to the best of his ability. Sergeant Morales was an exemplary leader in whom his Soldiers believed.

NOTICE the difference?
Do you even notice the important part in the original story that is missing in the second story that has a direct bearing on the mental health aspect of this whole debacle? And one more thing for some of you GEN Blanchard not only started the Sergeant Morales Club, he was also known for his attempts to combat alcoholism in the Army.

How many of you that have served in the past 10 to 20 years even have or had a leaders notebook that has this basic information in it?

Sorry to state that Be, Know, Do has been a catch phrase for way too long.

Our leadership needs to revisit the basics of leadership instead of these types of appeasement actions as illustrated in the report that we are commenting on.

Response by CW3 Stephen Bacon made Mar 20 at 2023 10:59 AM

2023-03-20T10:59:47-04:00

Alec, can I have unmitigated government control for 1000 please?

Response by Cpl Andy Krueger made Apr 23 at 2023 5:44 PM

2023-04-23T17:44:52-04:00

Nothing but snother way to control you....You know, for your own safety and all.
This is the same leadership gailing you now.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Apr 28 at 2023 11:08 AM

2023-04-28T11:08:43-04:00

25 years old to purchase on DoD property? Yet a 17 year old can be handed an automatic weapon for duty? Explain the logic to me.

Response by CPL James S. made May 6 at 2023 1:30 AM

2023-05-06T01:30:14-04:00

what they said: “The Department of Defense ... recognizes that suicide is a complex issue with no single cause or solution but is committed to promoting the well-being, health, and morale of their Total Force and preventing suicide within their ranks.”

This is what I read: "We know there is a problem and we can't be arsed to find a workable solution that doesn't include violating your rights because it's a hell of a lot easier to take away your 2A rights than addressing some of the other BS happening in the military that we KNOW affects morale and drives suicidal ideation. This decision/tactic makes us look like we're doing something and we care about the issue."

Response by SSG Paul Carrier made Jun 10 at 2023 9:45 PM

2023-06-10T21:45:46-04:00

Addressing only one portion of the problem.
Ignoring the WHY.. SM commit suicide.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Jun 13 at 2023 3:47 AM

2023-06-13T03:47:36-04:00

Shamefull to try and hide an anti-2A policy in suicide prevention.
Any leader who thinks that the once or twice that most units get to use the range is enough to make their personel good marksman,is a foolish leader.
1. Practice, practice, practice, is what is needed for good marksmanship. A privately owned firearm, is the best way to do it. When it's your own weapon, you are more willing to learn about and maintain it. You have the potential, to build better skills and habits.
2. With regular use, personal fire arms can help the SM to build outside, better, associations to loud noise. Make them less distracted. Better memories to associate with the sound. Less fear and pain to go with it.
3. Do I really need to associate the increased proficiency of having your own firearm with the "A well regulated malitia".

I have no problems with safety being a major part of weapns training.
I am more than open to discussing what to do about SM's who are at risk, but why are they trying to punish everyone else?

Seriously, when the medical professions push so many pills for every ailment, especially with regard to mental illness, does anyone really think that reducing firearms is going to do anything to reduce suicide deaths?
We are talking prevention here. We are not discussing the prevention of accidents. We are talking about preventing a Distinct, Focused, Intentional, and irrevokable, act. I once had a friend pulled from a psych hold and put in an isolation cell at the county lockup, just to have him hang himself with his sheets. If the desire is there, it doesn't take much resourcefulness to get the job done. It doesn't take much, only one deliberate action.

Where is the discusion for NCO training to hold critical incident stress debriefings?
Where is the general awareness training?
Where is the talk of reducing the stigma of mental illness, or the weakness of depression.
No recomendation to have mental health workers assigned to lowest unit levels. Sometimes the chaplain just isn't there or can't give the help that is needed.

I have been there. I know how hard it is to ask for help.

• Repealing and replacing a law that prohibits the defense secretary
A violation, that can't be any more obvious.
Aren't all those "recommendation" already being enforced on all bases? Would any of them actually do anything to slow someone, who is determined?
I guess the "Common Sense" isn't really there.

Response by SN Russell Helberg made Jun 30 at 2023 2:28 PM

2023-06-30T14:28:25-04:00

what can i say---more ways to take our guns away--look out for the united nations gun grab--after aoll did they not teach us that in boot camp--go figure--look out for WOKE

Response by SN Russell Helberg made Jun 30 at 2023 2:32 PM

2023-06-30T14:32:17-04:00

take your influence score and put it put it we3re the sun never shines--take me off your web site

Response by Lt Col Bill Fletcher made Jul 2 at 2023 5:12 PM

2023-07-02T17:12:03-04:00

No need to worry about that pesky 2nd Amendment. Big brother knows what is best for you. Certainly will drive more troops off post and do their gun purchasing there as well. Suicide prevention discussion is the only item that has merit in this proposal.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Jul 7 at 2023 9:29 PM

2023-07-07T21:29:30-04:00

Interesting. Military personnel cannot be trusted to own or handle dangerous weapons. This advisory group that determined this probably comprises people who have never served. In twenty-plus years of service, I can only recall two very separate suicide attempts I had personal knowledge of. 1965 Fort at Lewis WA as a military policeman my partner and I responded to the special separations unit reference a suicide attempt. The soldier was attempting to hang himself, in the latrine, using his bootlace. We cut him down and he was sent to the base hospital. Since he was in the process of being separated I never understood his motivation. The second occurred at Lackland AFB TX. I was serving as an MTI, for basics. I had a baby flight and had finally gone home when the phone rang. It was the CQ who advised that one of my basics had tried to commit suicide. He had tried to kill himself using a bootlace. Fortunately, the dorm guard from the senior flight was advised by other flight members as to what the airman was doing. The senior flight airman used his nail clippers to cut the shoelace, and the basic trainee survived and was separated out. I wrote this out detailing the weapon of choice in both instances, their bootlaces!

Response by Carlos Barrera made Jul 8 at 2023 10:45 PM

2023-07-08T22:45:43-04:00

El gobierno debería preocuparse por darle la mejor arma a sus ciudadanos desde los inicios de su formación escolar hasta la universitaria y en la formación intelectual del núcleo familiar y social. No se asusten por esta proposición, porque es la única manera de proteger a todas las personas de cualquier afrenta que la vida les presente, porque me estoy refiriendo a las armas de "la razón" en donde se anida la mejor respuesta ante la solución y enfoque que puede aportar nuestro pensamiento disciplinado y orientado a la socialización de cada ciudadano en el entorno familiar para ir con decoro y dignidad ante la nación a participar activamente en el resguardo del territorio con un sentido más humano, porque tenemos que humanizar a la humanidad para que la Democracia sea efectiva y motivo de orgullo con un sentido muy claro que en lugar de llevar al suicidio a la persona lo motive a ser mejor cada día de su vida porque existe en su ser el arma más efectiva, el cultivo de la Razón desde la temprana edad. Esto implica muchos aspectos ideológicos que aún no se aplican a la educación y formación de la gran comunidad de ciudadanos etc.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2023 10:49 PM

2023-07-16T22:49:02-04:00

Would be nice if Command actually did their job an took care of their people.

Response by CW3 Steven Holt made Jul 24 at 2023 7:36 PM

2023-07-24T19:36:23-04:00

I normally don’t reply to those. I’ll enjoy reading them, but after the things have gone, the way they have in the recent near passed in my opinion the increase in veteran suicide and the biggest impact on Veteran suicide is the VA it’s self getting something accomplished inside the VA is almost impossible. The VA has always wonderful programs to get them to do anything with them, is a battle. I have battled many of these for other veterans here in Alabama. I requested a travel audit over a year and a half ago. Accomplishments office requested a travel audit for me over a year ago three weeks ago I got a call from travel, and they told me that they finally got around to my request I asked him what day it was and they told me it was in 2021. They told me that my request would be completed within the next two weeks here. It’s been over a month and nothing has been done a congressman can’t get them to do it I can’t get them to do it the last time I was successful at doing this they owe me $4000 in backpay if they’re on me that there are many other people this kind of money and a lot of it stop push the issue you just take what you get and that’s it.

I can go on about many things that I’ve had similar situations with if you complain too much, you find that you get removed from secure messaging are things have been ordered from prosthetics, but the purchase order never leaves the facility

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2023 2:52 PM

2023-07-27T14:52:47-04:00

Honestly I don't think gun safety is the problem but the unhealthy stigma around getting help with your mental health needs. I saw a Psychologist and a Psychiatrist when I was Enlisted and the problem was the Psychologist left a lot of us service members in the lurch by taking a Civilian job that paid him more money than the Military was offering. But by doing this many people had their records messed up, me included. I couldn't figure out why I was unable to go to Guam or anywhere else for that matter, later I would learn that the (world wide qualified) box had been checked and once this is done you're stuck in CONUS and can't go anywhere but Stateside until this box is unchecked!

The problem being at that point in time, I didn't even know this box existed.

I even spent a week in a Psych-ward.

I've been talking to Mental Health Professionals at the VA and through Tele-Health too for the better part of 20 years total.

I've utilized the Veterans Crisis Line, the Suicide Prevention Coordinator, and Congressional Liaison to cut through red tape.

Some providers have been wonderful, others have been confrontational. It's a mixed bag TBH. It took the Department of Veterans Affairs 20 years to decide some of my issues were permanent.

That isn't to say that they can't improve just that they're not going away.

Lets face it, if someone is intent on hurting themselves the issue isn't a firearm but not having access to mental health treatment without the Stigma of it hurting their military career.

That is why people don't ask for help to resolve an issue before it becomes a problem, they don't want their permanent record annotated, so they suffer in silence until their breaking point - whatever that might be.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2023 3:07 PM

2023-07-27T15:07:16-04:00

Wow, it's almost like you guys don't know anything about preventing suicide and what triggers it. I can tell you one thing, a big trigger when I returned in 2003 was seeing all of my battle buddies wives downtown Colorado Springs being Big-Ol W@#RES! How about some classes for the new guys to teach them about the brown ID card chasing lot lizards! How about you do something useful and pass a law prohibiting family courts and divorce lawyers from using one's MILITARY SERVICE to this (what seems to be turning into an ungrateful country and younger generations) County against them when we come back only to find they have been sleeping with everyone and now they want to take our kids away from us and start milking us for as much as humanly possible. Then pass a laws preventing family courts from Using your Military Pay (While in a hazardous duty zone) to calculate child support because we don't continue to get hazardous duty pay, bah, and and food allowance after we are divorced and not in a war zone, but the family courts don't give a crap. How about making sure that there are enough lawyers and/or resources available to make sure there is a pool of amazing lawyers available to each base, specifically for Family court so we don't have to feel like there is no other way to deal with being blocked from seeing our children other than leaving this planet. Talking about restricting access to guns, or raising the age to 25 all that is, is a slap in our face. So i can sign my life away at 18 go die for the country but I'm not allowed to drink, I can't own a personal weapon, and you want more people to enlist in the military, raising the age to 25 isn't going to help, they'll be joining a hypocrisy. I don't want to hear anything about gun control or restrictions from an admin that made the largest terrorist organization in the world (that happens to HATE AMERICA) the most well armed on the planet! People that think we shouldn't possess AR-15's etc. obviously don't have a clue, because we should at a very minimum, be as well armed as those that want to kill Americans and destroy America. Although they've been doing a decent job with their as the POTUS Puppet Masters, he sure has been helping make the U.S.A. a more unsafe and unsecure place to live. Anyway, how about doing things that will support and help Veterans deal with what they have to deal with when they come home, instead of tryinig to restrict them from doing things that they risked their lives to protect and defend, you know, those CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!!

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Aug 6 at 2023 4:26 PM

2023-08-06T16:26:08-04:00

Well, that will work out well for recruitment.

I already think it is a shameful thing that the drinking age on military bases isn't "be in the military" as it was when I joined. Emancipated minors can buy alcohol in at least one state for sure, and for all I know all of them. I knew a 16 year old girl who had papers to let her buy alcohol and cigarettes because she was married.

Why can't we treat our troops like adults? Because to me, if a troop can't buy alcohol, he is a minor, which means a child. So, are we using child soldiers then? Sounds like it to me.

I know that seems off-topic, but to me it's the same thing. Because if you don't think alcohol will kill you dead, you are provably wrong.

The sort of people the military needs, often like guns. Fucking oddly. I was rather disappointed I couldn't carry my duty firearm around with me when I first joined. Much later, I spent many years in the UK, where I had to store my personal weapons at the base armory, fortunately, most of that time the armory was in my chain of command and a few links under me and my office was inside the armory, so I got my gun fix.

I wouldn't have joined the USAF if they had told me I couldn't have guns. I don't really think I am in the minority. Well, I wasn't in 1972 anyway....

Response by SN Don Soileau made Aug 7 at 2023 11:20 PM

2023-08-07T23:20:04-04:00

Hands off our guns.
Shall not be infringed
Stop trying to micromanage our very existence.
D. O . D. and the rest of gov't is out of control.
We are not nearly as free now as we were in say 1974, for sure.
T
Land of the free, was a thing here in the USA and It still kinda is now but to a much lesser degree. What a shame.
Obama's presidency generation of kids and up will have no conception of even, near true freedom(s). I believe.

Response by CPO Rob Carleen made Aug 8 at 2023 5:43 PM

2023-08-08T17:43:34-04:00

Guns are not the problem. If a person is suicidal, one way or another, without intervention it’ll happen. The problem is, that many times you don’t realize the problem. Back in ‘67, one of my friends who seemed completely well adjusted, went down to the beach with us about 9 pm, folded his clothes neatly, left his wallet and watch on top. Said he going to take a quick dip, and proceeded to swim out into the Atlantic. We tried to call him back, tried to catch him but he had a good head start. Just hollered ‘’goodbye’’

Response by MSG Gregg Clement made Aug 12 at 2023 7:18 PM

2023-08-12T19:18:14-04:00

We are the ARMED forces. They should not be regulating personally owned firearms.

Response by MSG Gregg Clement made Aug 12 at 2023 7:37 PM

2023-08-12T19:37:02-04:00

DOD can keep their nose out of the warriors gun safes.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Aug 24 at 2023 6:36 PM

2023-08-24T18:36:13-04:00

I have a better idea. Let’s take the money spent on ‘pork’ commissions like this and use that money for something more useful….like ANYTHING!

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Aug 25 at 2023 12:03 AM

2023-08-25T00:03:48-04:00

My understanding is that it is particularly hard in the National Guard. Can anyone confirm?

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Aug 25 at 2023 12:30 AM

2023-08-25T00:30:41-04:00

I think some small but important part of our suicide problem has to do with the extent to which we overprotect and coddle our youth. Since they walk into pre-k they’re told to not handle their own problems, not to stand up for themselves. They don’t get a chance to deal with the realities of life. Battlefields don’t give ‘second place’ awards. So they’re not equipped to deal with the mind numbing trauma that combat or life and death situations produce. I’m probably not expressing myself very well, so I’m asking folks to look at generalities rather than specifics. Our great grandparents had hard lives and had to deal with terrible consequences at times. Hard times today means a cell phone running out of power. Perhaps I’m being a bit facetious, but the principle is there. We need to prepare our youth for dealing and living the need for harsh necessities and actions. Until we do, we can anticipate increasing issues with mental illness.

Response by 1SG Jeremy Evans made Aug 25 at 2023 8:39 AM

2023-08-25T08:39:22-04:00

Imagine being an experienced 24 year old Ranger Fire Team Leader responsible for numerous troops and weapons then being told that you're not "responsible" enough to purchase a personal weapon on post.

Response by SFC Jim Thurman made Sep 13 at 2023 4:09 PM

2023-09-13T16:09:39-04:00

Suicidal ideation or attention getting, whatever is the cause of the act of suicide, all are caused by the underlying loss of hope. Why would you attack the tool used and not the cause of the action. Are you going to take away their cars, knives , bootlaces, or anything else they can harm themselves with? No not even a thought to do those things, well as has been stated previously there are two different populations associated with the military those who have served and all others, everyone else it seems there are many people who want to make assumptions, but it is very difficult to stand up sign your a check to Uncle Sam with your life in the balance, and serving the greater good, but there has been a continual disconnect between civilian population, and their understanding of the issues applied to the military community. The military has many similarities with first responders, but they are not the same, therefore, the mental health treatments, the projects to increase resiliency in our service members and the education of the service members about mental health, all need to be targeted towards today’s service member both the long-standing officer, an NCO, and the newer, younger service members, and the stresses that they deal with. Taking away their constitutional rights does not fix the problem. There Has to be a better way, illegal search and seizure is never the right way to approach. The problem of service members depriving the world of their existence. that’s why they need to understand. They are being a blue falcon. it leaves nothing but pain and suffering and in their wake when they do this selfish action.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2023 1:39 AM

2023-09-18T01:39:02-04:00

Putting more restrictions doesn't stop the underlying issue. A service member who's at the lowest point of their lives is not going to care about any policies, they will find a way. These restrictions just take away what little freedom service members have left. No wonder recruiting numbers are abysmal.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Sep 19 at 2023 11:37 PM

2023-09-19T23:37:23-04:00

When are we the People going to tell these so called experts to pack sand?
this report is not about preventing Suicide , it about disarming the American population, disarming those current & former service members who know how to use weapons and organize and lead men into combat, we are what they fear the most , took are oath of office very seriously, this is why they fear us.

by using a mental health crisis, as a excuse to disarm not only the veteran, but every American citizen , they hope to control the American population .

If they were serious about preventing and greatly reducing Suicide in the armed services & though out America, they would put more money, Resources and hospital beds for mental healthcare .

the City, State & Federal Gov would put more money in mental health care to help combat vets, service members, family members who are going though a Divorce, or suffering though a loss of a friend, or loved one , service members would be able to get help with Survivors Guilt, or healing from a very traumatic wound , remember not all wounds can be seen, many are mental

service members, family members would be able to get the help they need without fear of being label

the firearm, knife, box cutters, pills, jumping off tall bridges or BLDG, ETC, is not the cause of suicide it is just the tool that is used to end there life, There are many reason people who are suffering from mental illness use, there are many ways they can use to end there suffering, we need to let them know we are there to help them get the Professional Health Care they need.

outlawing the tool they use to end there life is like closing the barn door after the horses leave the barn , these service members need mental health care and we need to make it easer for them to find and get the help they need . WE NEED TO VOTE THEM ALL OUT OF OFFICE AND ELECT PERSONAL THAT WILL FIRE EVERY FACELESS Bureaucrat who playing politics with the service members lives .

it time to fire every single politician who is PLAYING POLITICS , with the service members lives in order TO PUSH a POLTICAL POLICYS AND AGENDA TO DISARM THE AMERICAN POPULATION !

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Sep 20 at 2023 2:39 PM

2023-09-20T14:39:53-04:00

Two problems with the headline, the article, and the report:

1) None of the recommendations have anything to do with gun safety
and
2) Gun safety has nothing to do with suicide

Safety -- any kind of safety -- is about preventing accidents, not about deliberate acts. Almost no one commits suicide accidentally (the only accidental suicide would be someone trying to fake a suicide attempt who dies my mistake).

Response by SP5 Skip Saurman made Sep 21 at 2023 2:47 PM

2023-09-21T14:47:33-04:00

Although I am out of the Army now, and although the Second Amendment is nothing more than words codified in the Bill Of Rights . . . . to me, my God-given right to self-defense and self-preservation take absolute precedent over ANYTHING that anybody - especially the Government - wants me to do!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2023 10:45 AM

2023-10-09T10:45:21-04:00

Let's put a safety on the gun and lock them up in vaults so that nobody hurts themselves. It's a mental attitude people. Guns are just a tool. You can kill with a tent stake or more likely die in a car crash.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Oct 25 at 2023 6:43 PM

2023-10-25T18:43:35-04:00

Good Cun Control is hitting the target with one shot. If a man/woman/trans/queer/bi/whatever can join the military then weapons will become his main stay. It is redundant to then prevent the soldier from from obtaining, storing, shooting, that which he owns. Good military training, not kum-bi-yah campfire meetings, will motivate soldiers for the mission ahead of them. No one in the military should think of killing himself because there should be someone having his back.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2023 1:24 PM

2023-10-27T13:24:34-04:00

INHO, What's the difference? The Military has allways had Armory personnell and secure weapons storage anyway. If your on DOD property they decide anyway, and save for those of you who try to make every little thing political, I see no reason to oppose anything that saves fellow soldiers lives.

Response by PO2 David Ball made Nov 5 at 2023 2:27 PM

2023-11-05T14:27:37-05:00

Ban the sale of weapons to 25 years old.. ? Round up these idiots are throw them in jail for twenty-five years.. These people had better start getting legal representation for their felony crimes. Tilte 18 Subsection 241 is great start..

Response by SGT Aaron Atwood made Nov 5 at 2023 11:38 PM

2023-11-05T23:38:35-05:00

"Gun-related recommendations “are not strategies for gun control, but they are strategies focused on enhancing safety,” said committee member Dr. Craig Bryan, clinical psychologist and professor of psychiatry at Ohio State University, during a media roundtable discussion transcribed by DOD. They included:

• Repealing and replacing a law that prohibits the defense secretary from collecting or recording any information related to firearms or ammunition privately owned by a service member or DOD civilian employee.
• Standardizing DOD-approved firearm safety training so it covers topics such as suicide prevention, safe gun use and storage, and other best practices.
• Implementing a seven-day waiting period for any firearm purchased on DOD property.
• Implementing a four-day waiting period for ammunition purchases on DOD property after the purchase and receipt of a firearm bought on DOD property.
• Raising the minimum age to 25 years for purchasing firearms and ammunition on DOD property.
• Requiring anyone living on DOD property in military housing to register all privately owned firearms with the installation’s arming authority and to securely store all privately owned firearms in a locked safe or with another locking device.
• Establishing DOD policy restricting the possession and storage of privately owned firearms in military barracks and dormitories."

Odd how absolutely none of this addresses taking a hard look at the servicemember's leadership at all levels: the immediate, the platoon, company, battalion, etc.
---The first bullet scares the shit out of me to be honest. If I was the governor of my respective home state and openly called for a mustering of the militia I wouldn't want to know something like that. Small arms are small arms, and in order to effectively defend oneself and the state you'll probably need more than just small arms (and if you know your state constitutions I just gave a nice hint to where I was born and raised).
---Suicide prevention is already DoD-wide, and often repeated per year so often that no one cares for it anymore; and safe gun usage and storage is part of any class required to obtain a permit to carry. There's nothing to standardize.
---Implementing a waiting period for either weapons or ammo is a waste of time. There are always gun shops off base at any CONUS location. If someone intends to do harm they'll find a way.
---I'm ok with this only if we also raise the minimum age to join any military branch to 25 as well. Same for buying cigarettes and alcohol, and just being considered an adult at all. If that's not the case then they can shove that suggestion back where it came from.
---Requiring registration? That's already in place! Same with those safety measures. Now are they enforced? I have yet to have any MPs or PMOs knock on my door for random inspections. Oh yeah, that's a violation of other rights in the Bill of Rights! Without violating any further rights: good friggin luck enforcing this!
---See above statement. Barracks folks are some of the most resourceful people I've known. They find effective ways to keep ahold of their stuff. Unless we're going to treat everyone like a maximum security prisoner there's no legal way to effectively enforce such a policy.

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Nov 17 at 2023 6:21 PM

2023-11-17T18:21:11-05:00

Rather than trampling on U.S. Citizens rights, how about addressing the real problem - mental health. Embrace and encourage service members and veterans to talk with a psychologist who can assist the service member/veteran in resolving the root causes and conditions that lead to suicide. Disarming those who fight for freedom?! Is this April Fools day? You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

Response by SSG Chris Gursky made Nov 20 at 2023 2:20 AM

2023-11-20T02:20:14-05:00

Looks like gun control, walks like gun control, smells like gun control. It’s definitely a duck

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Nov 26 at 2023 12:59 AM

2023-11-26T00:59:32-05:00

The big "S" is a silent killer. I know many that have done it and never let on what is going on in their private life. The situation/s in their life is unknown to you unless they reach out to you for help, but that doesn't always work either. So preventing Suicide is a task that can be a success or a failure.

Response by PO3 Bobby Quisenberry made Dec 9 at 2023 1:22 PM

2023-12-09T13:22:39-05:00

It is a mental problem not a gun problem! Guns, personal or not, are not allowed in barracks in the Navy anyway, they had to be stored in the armory The only gun fault related problem I can see was when the Colt .45 1911 was being used because people were accidentally shooting themselves because they are not double action pistols, so they went to the 9mm Berettas, which I didn't favor. People today are just kind of stupid. They need to be taught to be tough and not whinny liberals. It is a mind set that people die by their own hand. I believe there are only two types of people in the world in two catagories, those who have homicidal tendencies and those who have suicidal tendencies. The military doesn't need the latter! They need to be trained otherwise or let go! The military is a war machine, not just a 9 to 5 job as some think it should be!

Response by SGT Joel Pullem made Dec 21 at 2023 7:18 AM

2023-12-21T07:18:22-05:00

You don't have a weapons problem!!!! You have a alcohol/depressant problem!!!! Please consider removing all alcohol sales on military installations for a 5 year span. I guarantee suicide rates will drop. Its sad that society as a whole in america worships big alcohol because the government leads you to believe its full of fun times... Its not if you have an addictive personality.

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Jan 10 at 2024 6:44 AM

2024-01-10T06:44:05-05:00

Any excuse to go after guns. The left is scared of veterans. The left should look in the mirror to see the reason for the high suicide rate.

Response by 1SG John Millan made Jan 24 at 2024 12:51 AM

2024-01-24T00:51:50-05:00

Bad concept. Trojan horse attack on 2A gun rights.

Response by Stacey Acre made Jan 28 at 2024 10:33 AM

2024-01-28T10:33:07-05:00

The good idea fairy is hard at work once again. Jesus.

Response by SFC William Linnell made Jan 30 at 2024 8:57 AM

2024-01-30T08:57:55-05:00

Morning All. Yes, I know. A bit late on responding. I couldn't read anymore after the first paragraph. Typical studies, blame the weapon. Soldiers need more training in weapons safety?? By changing the age of who can buy isn't going to stop a Soldier who wants to end it. We do have Suicide Prevention classes, what more do they want? COC tells us if one feels that way to come talk with them and get them help. And there's a huge stigma placed on the Soldier.

Already in place for Soldiers owning a firearm on post. Must be registered with the MPs station (memory on who exactly is slipping), The Co Commander also signs the registration form. Soldiers in the barrack have to keep it stored in the arms room. Soldier must clear it thru his COC to bless off for getting it out of the arms room, Soldier must coordinate with the arms room to open at a certain time and time to bring it back to storage. Also if the Soldier is going to a range or whatever, they have to have their registration form on hand, especially if stopped on post.

The failure is on DOD for not providing enough medical personnel to treat Soldiers, especially in mental health. After 20 years of a continued war on two fronts. The post had a BDE size element with support units...say about 5000 Soldiers, now back and they only have a total of 6 mental health specialists, Soldiers fall thru the cracks. Then when a Soldier gets an appointment, they throw drugs at them, different combinations, They issue a 30 day supply and to schedule their next appoint which by the way is 6-7 months or more out. What happens? They self medicate either with over the counter or illegal drugs. Some turn to alcohol. Some can't take it any longer and they take their own life. And I only say this from personal experience. No..No, not the suicide thing. And definitely not the illegal drugs.

Response by SSgt Paul Mulwitz made Mar 24 at 2024 1:49 PM

2024-03-24T13:49:03-04:00

I must wonder where the government goes to find people who recommend disarming armed force members. If the member in question is not stable enough to own a firearm he/she should not be in military service.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Apr 24 at 2024 8:46 AM

2024-04-24T08:46:43-04:00

I have been amazed by how things have changed in the Marine Corps. When I served in the mid-60's. as a grunt in 1-6 we lived in squadbays. The entire platoon in bunks 36" apart. We had a wall locker and a locker box. We had rifle racks in the middle of the squad bay where all of our rifles were secured. Each Marine had the lock and key to his own rifle. We could take it out of the rack to clean or to pracitce drill any time we wanted to. The only weapons that were secured in the Bn. armory were crew served wepons and the pistols. I cannot recall anyone committing suicide or homicide

When I transfered to Marine Barracks Bangor in Washington state we kept out rifles in our personal wall lockers. Again no suicide, homicide or missing weapons. What has changed? When did it happen?