Do you think you would be treated better by law enforcement if you did not act adversarial?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:07:49 -0400

In light of the issues surrounding the use of force with student in South Carolina; I found this (via the Blaze) which was a very interesting contrast. Your thoughts?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/10/29/a-black-man-wearing-a-hoodie-and-strapped-with-a-glock-gets-pulled-over-by-police-how-he-chooses-to-respond-likely-determined-the-outcome/

A ‘Black Man Wearing a Hoodie and Strapped’ With a Glock Gets Pulled Over by Police — How He...

Realizing his front headlight was out, Arizona author and veteran Steven Hildreth, Jr., pretty much knew why a Tucson Police Department cruiser turned around and started following him. "The lights go on and I pull over," Hildreth wrote on his Facebook page Tuesday regarding the encounter. "The...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2015 11:21 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:21:02 -0400

Respect given is respect received.

Response by Cpl Dave Donathan made Oct 30 at 2015 11:24 AM

Cpl Dave Donathan — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:24:42 -0400

I think that his experience is pretty much standard. I've only dealt with cops a few times on the wrong side. Traffic stuff. So my experience with them is pretty good.
But what is considered adversarial? Am I combative if I refuse consent for them to search me or my vehicle? What if I refuse to answer questions? Both of these choices are my right. I may not be cooperating but I'm not required to. Does that give them reason to treat me differently? I say no. If you suspect that I have committed a crime then by all means arrest or summons me. If not leave me alone.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2015 11:26 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:26:23 -0400

Well ... if you start acting like an A$$. Guess how the police react to an a$$? Isn't that the simplest explanation?

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Oct 30 at 2015 11:28 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:28:28 -0400

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member Like the man in the post said, Police Officers are people too. I work in the IT field. I deal with people all day long. I treat them in a respectful manner no matter how irate they are when they call/ contact me. It does sometimes wear thin, and I have to take a walk to calm down. Police Officers don't have that option as they are dealing with the "customer" face to face. Taking a breath, and reminding ourselves that they are doing a job, in which each encounter is different would make it easier for everyone. Furthermore, police also need to be prepared for the possibility that each encounter could escalate to physical altercation. I don't think I could be as polite and restrained if I was prepared for the person to jump at me while trying to hold a conversation.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Oct 30 at 2015 12:12 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:12:12 -0400

I do have a close friend who is a copy that admits he will used more force then necessary sometimes so that suspect is fearful of him, this is not saying all police are this way. One cannot paint the police in one color just like one cannot paint everyone else in one color.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Oct 30 at 2015 12:18 PM

1LT Aaron Barr — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:18:31 -0400

I would agree wholeheartedly. I got pulled over by an Oklahoma State Trooper for speeding and had a similar experience. I gave the officer my license, registration and CCP, informed him that I was armed and where the weapon was and things were fine. I'd also point out that I was carrying a full-sized 1911 at the time and had it wedged between my seat and the center console which made me unbuckling my seatbelt a bit awkward as my hand had to right by the weapon to do so. The cop did have his hand on his hip while I did this, for which I can't blame him, but that was it.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2015 12:49 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:49:51 -0400

Just like any profession, there are good people, and good areas, and bad people, and bad areas. I would act as this guy has, and in Tucson AZ, I would trust the cops. Rural Georgia.....not so much. I'd still act the way he did, but I'd expect "nigger", "boy" and the like to be thrown at me...and if I so much as raised an eyebrow, I'd be the one to be wrong.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Oct 30 at 2015 1:05 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 13:05:26 -0400

That has always been my experience. I always treat officers with respect and that treatment has generally been reciprocated. In the two instances that it has not, at least neither situation was escalated and I went on my way afterwards.
Sometimes cops are having a bad day too, and it never pays the rabbit to beard the lion in his den.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2015 5:40 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 17:40:50 -0400

I always treated everyone the same on initial contact. IT was up to them how I acted after that. Compliance and being respectful will get you a long way. Being an idiot and noncomplaint will land you in other place.

Response by PO3 Sherry Thornburg made Oct 30 at 2015 5:42 PM

PO3 Sherry Thornburg — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 17:42:07 -0400

Always. The crap police are having to deal with now will make a polite person a much needed and appreciated moment.

Response by LTC Marc King made Oct 30 at 2015 6:18 PM

LTC Marc King — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 18:18:01 -0400

The results of the South Carolina incident should not be missed by focusing on the officer that has now lost his job. What needs to be closely examined is the response of the perpetrator. Her actions send a clear message to others that if you don't want to do what you are told by those in authority and you just ignore what you are told or asked to do... those who are in authority will be disciplined and you will not. Ad a cell phone camera to the mix and there is a real chance that the wrong outcome will be reached. Most of us grew up being told "Do not give the Cops any lip if you are stopped for some reason even if you don't think they are right"! This small piece of wisdom seems to have gotten lost in all the mayhem now being perpetrated on the country. The Mayor of New York City had to tell us that this a talk he had to have with his African American son -- I am sure that my enlist forms filled out all those many years ago reflected that I am a Caucasian and yet that is a "tell" that I received from my mother and father at a very tender age. Its kind of like being told not to stick your finger in an electric socket... -- they both have consequences.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Oct 30 at 2015 10:11 PM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 22:11:09 -0400

It's a no-brainer! I've been pulled over by officers who've copped an attitude with me for whatever reason, and I was always courteous to them no matter how I was treated.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2015 11:57 AM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:57:45 -0400

Sir, yes.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Oct 31 at 2015 12:50 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:50:42 -0400

Absolutely! The one time I sort of acted up to some police officers is the one time they told me to settle down or they'd "haul my ass off to jail." ....so I did just that. I settled down.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2015 1:54 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Oct 2015 13:54:34 -0400

I think there is plenty to blame to go around. I agree that people should treat our law enforcement officers with courtesy and respect. They're doing an often thankless job and in most cases are good people. If a person being stopped sets a negative tone for the conversation the officer is typically going to follow suit. It's not their job to be punching bags. That being said, I don't deserve to be bullied for failing to signal or a seatbelt violation either.

Where I think some LEOs fall short is taking an assertion of our constitutional rights as disrespect. A right is a right, regardless of how the LEO feels about it. If it makes his/her job more difficult, they need to understand that our rights still trump their inconvenience. I've seen more than one example of LEOs attempting to coerce citizens into violations of their rights simply for the sake of expedience.

Response by MSgt John Carroll made Nov 1 at 2015 12:22 AM

MSgt John Carroll — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 00:22:25 -0400

Like I have said in the past- play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I also tell my kids that a hard head leads to a sore ass.

Response by CPL JeMario Laurie made Nov 1 at 2015 7:55 PM

CPL JeMario Laurie — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 19:55:08 -0500

Yes, I very much think that if you give respect then you will receive the same in return. I live in South Carolina and I have a perfect example of this question. I have a concealed weapons permit. However, two days before going to take my class, I was pulled over by a sheriff for my "suspicious activities". I was in a vacant lot taking pictures with my DLSR for a photo contest. It was at night and I noticed the sheriff across the street when he shined his spotlight in my direction. So, I figured it was time for me to leave. So, I gather my equipment and leave the parking lot. Just as I anticipated, he followed me. So I just drove and waited for him to light me up....which he did. I pulled over and went with the flow. Now, here is where things could have gone bad if I hadn't remained calm and courteous.

After he ran my license and stuff, he came back and asked if I had any weapons in my truck. I politely said "yes sir" and told him exactly where it was located and the condition it was in. I was told to get out of the truck while he went to check the weapon. Another sheriff pulls up "hollywood style" with tires screeching. I did everything they said without asking any questions at all. They put the weapon back in my truck and asked if I had a license to carry concealed. I told them that I didn't, but I was scheduled for a class in two days.

He said normally I wouldn't do this, but he told me to be careful and let me go. The only reason he let me go was because when he pulled me over, I immediately turned on my interior lights and turned off my truck without them asking and kept my hands visible. He said I also didn't appear nervous and was in fact very friendly which he really did appreciate. He even said, he wishes he dealt with more people like me who still manages to smile in situations like that. Before he left, he told me to enjoy my CWP class and carry responsibly.

Now, if I were to become aggressive for any reason at all, they would definitely be on edge and would probably have their hands on their guns ready to pull out. Along with being aggressive, if I were to put one hand out of sight while in my truck, I probably would have been shot. With that being said, just do what they say without asking questions or talking back, make no sudden movements, show no signs of resisting or hiding anything, keep hands visible, and definitely tell the truth. I could have easily said I didn't have a weapon and probably wouldn't have been searched, but it's not worth the risk of getting in more trouble. The way you conduct yourself while interacting with law enforcement will always determine the outcome.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 5:00 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 17:00:00 -0500

While I understand the tension the last several years, I'm stationed not to far from Ferguson, MO, Truthfully I have to admit that in some jurisdictions race can become an issue of a stop. It has not or will it ever be a justification for a stop for me. I have taught CCW in Arizona and after reading the article MAJ Temple provided I see nothing wrong with it. In Arizona if an Officer asks you and you have a CCW you are required to answer.
Most of the confrontations that I have had to respond to or been part of have been initiated by the SUBJECT. They get loud, argue, state they "Know" their rights, (What they know they know from youtube videos) and generally act the ASS!, or in the military they also try the do you know who I/My Spouse is card. (That guarantees they will get a ticket BTW)
I treat everyone with respect but I also treat everyone as if armed as well. This does not mean I run up weapon drawn I just pay attention to their body language and the placement of their hands. You can be polite and still maintain your rights there is no need to run overboard and make a "scene" to get your 15 minutes of fame. Act like you and to be treated.

Response by GySgt Moses Lozano made Nov 6 at 2015 5:23 PM

GySgt Moses Lozano — Fri, 06 Nov 2015 17:23:32 -0500

It depends on the officer. Police officers are human too and have good and bad day like everyone else. The only difference is that they have a lot of authority with their jobs. This leaves a lot of room for abuse of authority just like senior non commissioned officers and officers do in the military. Of course this does not apply to everybody but it is a reality.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2015 8:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Nov 2015 20:51:42 -0500

Absolutely. It's about how you act.

Response by SSgt Ray Stone made Nov 9 at 2015 5:26 AM

SSgt Ray Stone — Mon, 09 Nov 2015 05:26:20 -0500

For one the guy was a Military vet, police tend to give passes to Military personnel when it comes to minor violations. Two this is propaganda I'm sure this guy is a coon whom is against Black Lives Matter movement. I being an African American, and a Veteran still fear for my life when Police are in my vicinity. R.I.P Tamir Rice