Do you think there was excessive force in the death of SGT James Brown?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 15:10:51 -0400

This is a video of a Soldier that I formally served with in Baghdad 2006-2007 who ended up dying in jail. Essentially turned himself in for a DWI conviction then somewhere things went wrong. I'm not taking any sides, and won't say what I know of him as I would like to see and hear your opinions of the situation first. I will tell you that he was still active duty at the time of his death, and this happened in 2012 and the video was just released yesterday. I am very supportive of law enforcement as well as my brothers and sisters in arms. Yes I have my take on it and apparently it is not a favorite amongst others.

http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/Web-Extra-Video-of-Sgt-James-Brown-inside-El-Paso-County-Jail-130935.shtml#.VVTmM_BpCls

Web Extra: Video of Sgt. James Brown inside El Paso County Jail

WARNING: The video attached to this story may be graphic for some viewers. EL PASO, Texas – KFOX14 obtained a video from inside the El Paso County Jail that shows the final moments of a Fort Bliss soldier who died while in custody. Sgt. James Brow

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made May 14 at 2015 3:12 PM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Thu, 14 May 2015 15:12:52 -0400

I will watch it and get back to you.

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made May 14 at 2015 3:31 PM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Thu, 14 May 2015 15:31:42 -0400

I finally got the video to play, although there are parts to it that are missing. Without reading the El Paso County Sheriff's Office Standard Operating Procedures as it pertains to dealing with prisoners who have complaints of bleeding , I did not see any wrong doing by these Police Officers. They tried to help this prisoner and he was obvious very uncooperative and hostile. The video clearly shows that the first Officer tried to talk with him and calm him down and he obviously didn't want anything to do with him. When the prisoner was told that if he didn't calm down and cooperate, the officer advised him that if he continued to act up that a team of officers were going to be sent in to subdue him and calm him down. The prisoner then said something to the effect "bring them on" and he even took off his shirt. And what was up with all that toilet paper all over the cell door window? Look, I know that I am a retired cop and I look at things in a different prospective, but I can honestly say that to me, this prisoner made a bad choice and resisted any help from the Police and because of it, the Police used only enough force necessary to contain and subdue him. Why is it that we have a rash of people that insist on resisting the police? Anyway, as far as the facial mask, it was for the Officer's safety because of the bleeding. That is standard operating procedure whenever any prisoner does complain of bleeding from the mouth of facial area. The only thing that I don't agree with is that there should of been some type of surveillance camera inside the cell. Just my 2 cents!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made May 14 at 2015 3:38 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 14 May 2015 15:38:09 -0400

I'm not seeing anything excessive here. If anything, they are actually being utterly professional the entire time.

From the start when the first officer is talking to him, it's "James, I need to look at that cut" which escalates to "I'll have to send a team in, if you don't calm down" which is what happens. The team goes in, and it's all subduing force. He's fighting back hard, and you catch a glimpse of him "prepping" for a fight right before hand. When he makes comments about him not being able to breath and choking on his blood, they actually accommodate him in several instances.

When he is at the medical station, their presence is all safety based, and again they make several accommodations when he asks for water, etc.

Someone better versed may see a line crossed, but I saw "minimal escalation of force" and it was all based on the safety of officers and medical staff.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 3:43 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 15:43:37 -0400

The video cut out alot for me and was hard to understand the words. What I did get though is the officers went in to detain him for not co-operating and used maximum force necessary to do so. But once detained the Soldier did try and explain and ask for help and to remove the cover from his mouth and the officers would not listen. In a sense I can see why but with out better video and audio I can not say that either side was wrong.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made May 14 at 2015 4:38 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 14 May 2015 16:38:28 -0400

This was tough to watch and a tough call 1SG Private RallyPoint Member. Tougher especially when its someone you know. I'm no expert on the subject but have been around and witnessed some of this stuff in my travels of the military detention ops circuit at GTMO and in Iraq.

The extraction came in response to non-compliance to have his wounds looked at. based on the look of the cell window, he may have been acting up prior to this as well. Someone being constrained or detained will try anything to distract their keepers such as saying they can't breathe or asking for water. I know how that feeling of not being able to breathe is and under stress its going to make the situation worse so I'm assuming the points where the SRT team got down on him harder did not make the situation any more pleasant as it took almost 6 minutes to get him under control. and out of the cell.

Once in the doctor's office, it appears he calmed down. The SRT team eventually complied with his request for water and changing positions when he was calm. Beyond the initial restraint I'm not seeing anything that screams brutality here and unless he had a reaction to the injection, I'm not seeing anything that would have caused his death based on the SRT teams action.

The family is suing claiming violation of civil rights under the ADA. Did he ever come out and say he suffers from PTSD other than the once where he says he "has problems". I doubt anyone involved on the SRT would be qualified to know instantly whether he did or not so how can they be held accountable for that? Even if he did say he had PTSD what less could they have done other than leave him in his cell. IMHO he was treated as any other prisoner would have been.

Response by SGT Richard H. made May 14 at 2015 6:46 PM

SGT Richard H. — Thu, 14 May 2015 18:46:13 -0400

Looking at the video, I didn't really see anything that I felt was excessive. My first question was, why is there video? I am assuming that's standard procedure for a take-down, but would there have been a video at all if he hadn't been violent? The fact that video was rolling before opening the door seems to indicate that there was probably a violent situation, which the police backed away from, got a camera, and prepared for a take-down.

Moving on from there, I didn't see cops acting in a violent manner, such as throwing punches, knees, etc....it seemed like a pretty standard take-down to my untrained eye, and when he backed it down a notch, so did they. It's definitely tragic that he died in jail, but short of a reaction to whatever sedative they administered, I didn't see anything that would seem to have caused it.

1SG Private RallyPoint Member, I'd be interested to read your take on this, as you have the unique perspective of knowing the guy, and may have some insight on how he was acting related to how you've known him to act in other situations. Please tag me when you do comment so I don't miss it.

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 7:08 PM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 19:08:38 -0400

I saw nothing excessive or in violation of civil rights or ADA. He was given every opportunity to comply and the officers accommodated nearly all requests from the detainee. I don't know what he died of or from but just from what I have seen in this video he was treated better and more fairly than most inmates in lock up

Response by Sgt Jim H. made May 14 at 2015 8:35 PM

Sgt Jim H. — Thu, 14 May 2015 20:35:25 -0400

This appeared, to me, to be a case of excited delirium. I wonder if he had used cocaine before turning himself in or being booked in. He still had his boots and his own clothes on, instead of a county jail uniform.

State prisons and county jails in Texas are not required to be airconditioned; so, most are not. It was probably hot in the jail even before he started fighting.

I did not observe anything in the video that the officers did that was obviously wrong.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 2:41 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 02:41:46 -0400

SGT. Brown was a Soldier in my battalion at Fort Bliss when I was the CSM. There is much more to the story than you all know. SGT Brown was struggling with some family problems along with some PTSD. He was getting back on track and the battalion leadership was supporting him to the fullest (one of the reasons he turned himself in).

SGT. Brown was suffering from Sickle Cell Anemia (or a form of). It was undiagnosed and he was unaware he had the disease. There was a possible reaction to medication that was given to him while in custody which may have caused his strange behavior. The coroner conducted an autopsy and stated SGT. Brown died from "natural causes" pointing to the sickle cell.

All memorial services are hard but this one was one of the toughest I have ever done. SGT. Brown was a good person that was recovering from some bad times. If there is anything uncovered in continuing investigations I truly hope that the family get the justice they deserve.

Response by SPC Jack Hunt, JR made May 20 at 2015 12:28 PM

SPC Jack Hunt, JR — Wed, 20 May 2015 12:28:00 -0400

Wow, there were a lot of mistakes made by those jailers.

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made May 20 at 2015 1:26 PM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Wed, 20 May 2015 13:26:27 -0400

The solution is that law enforcement need to realize that they are the problem.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 4:56 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 16:56:23 -0400

I am sorry but this pisses me off. This death could have been avoided. To use the argument of resisting without care for whatever ailed him is horrible and offensive. I am so mad at the cell extraction team. His death proved to be an over-reaction by them and they should all lose their jobs and face criminal charges!!

How much is too much? Are cops trying to be rambo and not being compassionate? And people wonder why AA get sick of this crap......

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 11:32 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 23:32:49 -0400

Sad story. Would like to see those guards go thru what brown did. Then they might understand that PTSD fks with a mans head sometimes. He may not have known he was in jail. He may have thought he was captive. We are taught to never submit never quit trying to escape. He was locked up. He wasn't going to go any where. Whether sickle cell was the end state, they chose to ignore his pleads. They caused his death, by ignoring his warnings. I hope the best for his family. I hate seeing a brother fall.

Response by LTC Mo Vanderslice made May 21 at 2015 6:50 AM

LTC Mo Vanderslice — Thu, 21 May 2015 06:50:01 -0400

I saw this on the news too. Sounds like Garrison Command and 1AD command are not going to do anything. Sad...
Ft Bliss' soldiers should try at least some type of protest, like an economic boycott of all El Paso businesses for a week or two to get the city leaders' attention. It might be difficult to coordinate and place a strain on the AAFES facilities, but it would be worthwhile to remind the city about taking Ft Bliss' soldiers for granted.

Response by SGT John Beardsley made May 21 at 2015 4:20 PM

SGT John Beardsley — Thu, 21 May 2015 16:20:26 -0400

While I do not see any excessive forced being used it does appear as if the officers failed to act quickly enough when it became obvious that there was a medical emergency taking place.

Sgt. Brown's civil rights were violated not because he was black, or a soldier detained by a non-military agency. There is nothing in the video that gives even a slight hint of bigotry of any kind by the police officers. Brown's rights WERE violated because the officers were not trained properly to detect the medical and mental status of the detainee, and because no person who WAS trained to recognize that status was on-call or otherwise available. {And NO a nurse does NOT qualify even if they have 90 years of experience!}

The attorney for the Brown family said it right, no person should enter police custody healthy and be dead less than 48 hours later. Something failed in the system.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 6:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 18:18:19 -0400

Regardless of what everyone is saying this soldier needed medical attention and did not get it giving him water and a shot to calm him down is not medical assistance you can get that at Sick Call. I observe them filming everything I didn't notice no one call a ambulance to rush him to the hospital not until they watch this young soldier die.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 8:55 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 20:55:23 -0400

That is a brutal video and a very sad episode, 1SG Private RallyPoint Member. I think SGT Brown needed professional medical (and probably psychological) help, not six police officers subduing him. I get that the police are doing their job, but in my opinion he probably needed to be in a mental hospital, not a jail.

I saw something like this in person recently - thankfully it didn't end in anyone's death - but the person in question needed (and received) the mental health care they needed. The police stayed away and allowed the family to handle the situation (outside of jail, obviously).

That episode, the one i witnessed, opened my eyes a lot to the issues of mental illness. It didn't make any sense, but the individual was acting out, as they say. They were not in control of themselves, so someone had to take control. In the case I witnessed, just the presence of the police calmed the person right down, but I'm sure there are a thousand different ways that people react.

I'm very sorry that this man lost his life, for no apparent reason. And I'll close by saying that I am generally a supporter of the police. This was a tragedy that I think probably could have been avoided.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 5:16 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 17:16:02 -0400

After watching the video I will add my 2 cents.

There was no excessive force by the SRT or the initial responder. The SRT was called into play when Sgt Brown failed to comply with the orders given to him. The orders he failed to comply with were for his self-inflicted wounds to be looked at.

It sucks to know someone that has died in any manner. When the death is shrouded in mystery dued to trhe individual being in custody it is even harder. Correctional Institutes Record SRT Intervention in order for there to be evidence of the actions on both sides.

My perspective: To me, it looks like he was out of shape and tired from rocking around his cell and being in a struggle with the SRT. I would have taken it as that. Furthermore, Sgt Brown was in the care of a Nurse (or other medical staff) and I would have taken direction from them. After the initial contact I would have taken any Erratic movement as a sign that he wants to continue to fight. Any Erratic Behavior would be Scrutinized and viewed as him trying to get out of being in trouble. That comes from the expericne of people acting in this manner and trying to get out of the trouble they have caused.

I do not know who Sgt Brown is, nor did I serve with him. I would like to know what kind of soldier he was and when his DUI took place (how long before he turned himself in).

I do think it is sad that this particular outcome happened.