Do you think the "veteran" was justified with his argument or did he go overboard?

2015-03-15T11:12:59-04:00

https://www.facebook.com/VUFJnonprofit/posts/ [login to see] 60633

So it appears that the Facebook link has either been taken down or it's broken. Here's the story from The Advocate:

http://theadvocate.com/news/11856098-123/veteran-raises-flap-over-us

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 15 at 2015 11:23 AM

2015-03-15T11:23:25-04:00

Based on what I read I believe he kept his composure, the employees (management) was evidently uncomfortable. I would not have brought my family into this situation however, I do appreciate that he recorded it, and also offered to help lower the colors into position.

I voted yes....he brought this to their attention and this could have easily been taken care of without police involvement.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 11:32 AM

2015-03-15T11:32:50-04:00

I hope the manager gets in trouble for lying. Why would there be an issue with his family recording them, they already have cameras in the store. Because they are not in control of what is done with the recordings?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK6fXCCIpBo Here is the video to go with it.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 11:39 AM

2015-03-15T11:39:47-04:00

I think when he got angry (He who gets angry first, loses.) and went to the restaurant, he made it about himself regardless of his stated intent. Had he stifled his personal pride, none of the confrontation would have happened. Being hung up on could easily, and more appropriately, have been addressed with the Baton Rouge office.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-03-15T11:53:39-04:00

I work near a post office and half the time they don't know why the flag is at half mast.
If I was alone, I might say something if I was going to McDonald's. Chances are that I don't eat there, so I wouldn't have the opportunity to say a word.
Once I delivered my message I would sharply about face and move on. Nothing is to be gained by arguing and if the cops show up nobody wins.

Response by 1SG David Niles made Mar 15 at 2015 11:56 AM

2015-03-15T11:56:45-04:00

We are guilty of trying to force our military ethos on the civilian population. We the Military serve the citizens.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 12:04 PM

2015-03-15T12:04:56-04:00

Brother, they want $15/hr and can't even get an order right over half the time...what would you expect from them? Worth the show this guy put on? Nah. Should they have flown at half mast? Certainly. But just like waffle house and Starbucks would rather you not have a firearm in their establishment, there's not much you can do about it. If the law can't get involved because of constitutionally protected rights, you should tacky reconsider your efforts, lesy your breath be wasted.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 12:14 PM

2015-03-15T12:14:45-04:00

He got the attention he deserved, I guess. He made the news, and got the word out. Too bad corporate America doesn't tune-in to the goings on around the globe. As Veterans that care, we can only educate, not threaten, just teach basic military code, ethics, and mentor our civilian brothers....ugh what a goat****!

How embarrassing for his family. I would never do that to my family.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 12:47 PM

2015-03-15T12:47:25-04:00

The only problem with companies is that mist don't give a damn about orders from the government. If they were told to feed all homeless veterans you thibk they would hell no they hate the military through and through. Just more liberals running businesses hoping all veterans die so the can turn into a communist nation. I say good for him taking a stand for our fellow soldiers, Marines etc. And any business that refuses to fly have mast after order is issued should be forced to close and all people loose there jobs in such a case just my.02

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Mar 15 at 2015 12:58 PM

2015-03-15T12:58:50-04:00

I choose other, because this is yet another reason that the civilian population thinks poorly of some of us Veterans. He had his feelings hurt when they hung up on him, which prompted him to go there in person. Obviously the management felt threatened so they called the police. He should of just called the franchise owner and voiced his displeasure. I doubt that any employee would have a clue as to how to lower the flag at half mast. Would of been cool if, at the request of the Governor, all businesses flew the colors at half mast? Sure, but they aren't required to. It became a much bigger issue than it probably should of been. I am all for people to stand up to what they believe in, but sometimes how that is done becomes counter-productive.

Response by CAPT Stu Merrill made Mar 15 at 2015 1:56 PM

2015-03-15T13:56:18-04:00

Flying the Flag brings with it a degree of responsibility.

Response by 1SG Frank Rocha made Mar 15 at 2015 2:12 PM

2015-03-15T14:12:43-04:00

I have experienced something like this before. However, to be fair it was a very military friendly establishment that was quite receptive to the correction I offered. I was at a Harley-Davidson dealership and they had the flag out front with several others. the U.S. flag was in the center with the other flags placed to the left and right. they were all at the same height at the time. My correction involved either moving the U.S. flag to the right side or raising it so it's higher than the others. They were initially unaware of their mistake and was very grateful that I pointed it out to them. They were polite and courteous to me, thanked me for my service, and gave me some indian beads with the colors of the ICM and ACM. I bought a few items and went along my way after that I did not observe them make the correction but on my way back home, 2 days later, I saw that they had fixed it. Sometimes just a friendly correction is all it takes. Standing there stamping your foot with impatience waiting for someone to jump is probably not a good strategy.

Something tells me that the McDonalds this guy was at was not as "receptive".

Additionally, I would like to add that there are a many number of things civilians do not do with the flag that an "official" location does such as a Military Base, National Guard Armory, federal building, etc. Many of them do not take it down and put it up properly (sometimes not at all) let alone put it at half mast when required. If you leave it up at night its supposed to have a light shine on it. If we complained about every little thing every place did wrong with the flag we wouldn't have time in the day to live our own lives. I made my correction because I felt they would receive it well, and it was during a veterans appreciation event but again I did not stick around to see if they did anything about it.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 2:42 PM

2015-03-15T14:42:45-04:00

I understand the sentiment, but McDonald's is probably not required to follow the state order. I imagine that order must be followed by state offices and the like, but is an option for civilian businesses. That's just an educated guess.

SSG (Ret) Ducote probably took it too far, but he did make his point. And now he'll do what he probably should have done in the first place: he'll contact McDonald's HQ and lodge his complaint. I suspect he will effect change at McDonald's (which is excellent) because McDonald's likely does not want to alienate military and veteran customers.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Mar 15 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-03-15T14:52:14-04:00

Should they have? Yes. Are they required to? No.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 3:12 PM

2015-03-15T15:12:10-04:00

The Walker, LA McDonald's is no less patriotic that thousands of other businesses. If a veteran wants to have a PERSONAL policy to not frequent business that do not lower the flag with every military death, so be it. But we -- collectively -- need to quit being so sensitive and so confrontational with civilians.

I feel terrible for the employees. LA is a great state; plenty of supporters of those who serve and who have served.

Any loss of military life is tragic -- all loss of life is bad for someone -- but we don't have to circle the wagons or send in the cavalry just because one veteran thinks they are being "disrespected". Aren't we better than this?

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Mar 15 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-03-15T15:20:03-04:00

This SSG went way beyond the pale. What he did is easily construed as communicating threats.

If he does not like what that store does, he should vote with his feet. He could have made a simple FB post that this McD outlet does not support the military. If there are a lot of vets and military in that community, that store would feel it in their bottom line.

But, what he did brought DISCREDIT to the military. It is really unfortunate that he did this. I hope he has learned a lesson...

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 15 at 2015 5:58 PM

2015-03-15T17:58:41-04:00

The civilian sector is not worthy enough nor courageous enough to accept Warrior Ethos, and its private property. The veteran should have did the old fashion thing and get a permit, several patriots, and protest across the street.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Mar 15 at 2015 6:00 PM

2015-03-15T18:00:48-04:00

I'm not sure it was worth turning around, dragging his family into the place, filming it and all that. He shouldn't of been talking on his cellphone and driving to begin with. I think the store should of had it at half mast but he took further then it needed to go. I think it was more about them hanging up on him then anything when it got to that point.

Mc'd's is a civilian place, they wont appreciate the circumstances like we do as service members. That's one of the things we have to battle with, people not getting it but at the same time its not our place to shove it down their throats either.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 6:31 PM

2015-03-15T18:31:20-04:00

Anger is a poor and uncontrolled response that usually drowns out any good message when it is used to communicate. It is suitable to let a business manager know that there is an order to fly the flag at half mass and where to find it. Frankly I'm happy to see the US Flag flying and am more concerned that negative interactions like this one might discourage someone from flying the flag.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 7:01 PM

2015-03-15T19:01:51-04:00

Here are my two cents, I think there are too many of my brother and sisters in arms that forgot what we fight for. I see it in the both Veteran Community and Active Duty Community. Here is my point, our duty is to defend and support the Constitution of the United States, nothing more, nothing less. Take the time to read it, remind yourself of what we are fighting for and I guarantee you that your opinion of this situation will be the same as mine.

Now to my opinion. He should of left it alone after she hung up the phone on him, that was her Constitutional Right however wrong she was, by our duty we must respect that and move on. It sucks, it may not seem fair but that is what we raised our right hand and swore to do.

The End.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Mar 15 at 2015 7:05 PM

2015-03-15T19:05:55-04:00

The Restaurant, having chosen to fly the flag should do so appropriately.
The Veteran, having noted an issue was okay to inform a Manager of their error. Maybe even give resources that could help the establishment avoid the same issue again.
Heated exchanges and further escalation didn't need to occur.

Response by Sgt Debbie Pogue Dolan made Mar 15 at 2015 8:22 PM

2015-03-15T20:22:57-04:00

I feel he was justified and handled himself well. My daughter is a manager with McDonalds and she always honors the military as does all the sores under her owner-operator. Unfortunately not all owner-operators do, nor do they allow their managers to handle situations when they arise.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 15 at 2015 9:15 PM

2015-03-15T21:15:13-04:00

It's McDonalds and teenagers. Lower your expectations.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Mar 16 at 2015 1:39 AM

2015-03-16T01:39:01-04:00

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but I think SSG(RET) Ducote and his family was way out of line.

I find it very telling that he blames the unseen supervisor for making the "young female manager" face the angry retired soldier alone. Why would that be a hardship unless the retiree chose to make it one?

Why did his family insist on adding to the humiliation by recording a private person on private property being yelled at by retiree, even after being told by the property owner's representative (and the employee being recorded) to stop.

I don't care how noble the cause, I still think his behavior was an embarrassment to folks who care about sincere respect for fallen service members.

Response by MAJ Terry LaFrance made Mar 16 at 2015 2:55 AM

2015-03-16T02:55:40-04:00

I don't blame him for getting angry. McDonalds employees escalated the situation at every turn. It could have very easily been handled with a little common sense and courtesy. I hope that McDonalds get flamed on line and someone gets disciplined.

Response by MSG Robert Schmidt made Mar 16 at 2015 3:04 AM

2015-03-16T03:04:00-04:00

Fly it in accordance with U.S. FLAG Code or don't fly it at all.

Response by MSgt Jamie Lyons made Mar 16 at 2015 8:11 AM

2015-03-16T08:11:50-04:00

Totally could've handled it differently. I'm not sure I would've put the ladies picture on FB and embarrassed her like that either. I'm pretty sure she did not wake up and say "Today I will go to work and anger a veteran by not lowering the flag and hang up on him if he calls to complain." As soldiers we should hold ourselves to a higher standard then to belittle someone who isn't familiar with old glory protocal.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2015 10:54 AM

2015-03-16T10:54:58-04:00

Mountains and molehills. We defend their freedom to maintain a high flying flag over half staff. I commend the patriotism, but that pit stop was a waste of your time.

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Mar 16 at 2015 11:29 AM

2015-03-16T11:29:09-04:00

I have no idea what the procedures are for Corporate to inform the restuarants to lower the flag. I imagine the manager takes his/her orders from Corporate and not an angry vet.

This guy made us all look bad.

Do you think that girl is now more patriotic after this incident???

Response by SSG Adam Wyatt made Mar 16 at 2015 12:32 PM

2015-03-16T12:32:46-04:00

This is sad and seen all too often. It takes an A type of person to succeed in most jobs that the military has to offer. With that said, imposing your will and values on others is the easy wrong over the hard right. I would agree with this person but it is not our place to set civilian policy and/or impose our high standards onto the same people we serve. Whether we like it or not, in large part we are segregated in our beliefs from the general civilian populace. Those same beliefs are as free as the air we breath.

Response by SGT Corey Franks made Mar 16 at 2015 12:34 PM

2015-03-16T12:34:04-04:00

If the President "Orders all US Flags to fly at Half mast" then you should comply with that order.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 16 at 2015 3:33 PM

2015-03-16T15:33:38-04:00

"https://www.facebook.com/VUFJnonprofit/posts/ [login to see] 60633"
Sorry, this page isn't available

The link you followed may be broken, or the page may have been removed.
So..umm whats was the story?

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 16 at 2015 3:52 PM

2015-03-16T15:52:26-04:00

I read the account from Mr. Douglas M. Ducote's perspective and while I love his patriotism I have to question what he was really trying to do. As a police officer on the scene, a retired Marine, informed him that the Manager had no obligation in lowing the flag as it was a state order and only state buildings were required to honor the half staff status. I'd like to know if Mr. Ducote went to all the other local businesses and checked on their flags or was he satisfied with causing a stir at the local McDonald's and posting his rant on Facebook. While I certainly feel for the services member lost in Task Force Voodoo I find this as another example of "when service members attack". Civilians are not part of our military community and are not accustomed to living by our ways or by our standards. I think he could have just as easily walked up to the flag post and rendered the colors at half staff and none would have been the wiser. He is the CEO for Veterans United For Justice and served 18 years before getting a medical retirement so I do respect him and his service and continued support but I'm not sure he made the right call on this one.

Here is a link to his account:
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p/56000806/guy-at-walker-mcdonalds-throws-a-fit-about-flag-not-being-at-half-staff/

Guy at Walker McDonalds throws a fit about flag not being at half staff | TigerDroppings.com

Guy at Walker McDonalds throws a fit about flag not being at half staff - [link=(https://www.facebook.com/VUFJnonprofit/posts/779689815460633)]https://www.facebook

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 17 at 2015 12:37 AM

2015-03-17T00:37:39-04:00

I applaud his patriotism, however, we serve the people of the United States, and can't do that heavy handedly, when we don't agree with what others doing. Raise the issue, and let it go.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 3:10 AM

2015-03-17T03:10:28-04:00

Private civilian establishments are not required by law to lower flags to half-mast when federal, state, and/or local governments require it.

While I entirely understand and share the reverence to our Flag, trying to bully people and businesses into complying only makes Military (active or retired) look poorly in the eyes of society. We cannot allow ourselves to play into the 'Big Bad Fascist Military" stereotype that many people would like to apply to us. We are better than that, and are supposed to be defending The People, not bullying them.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 7:41 AM

2015-03-17T07:41:52-04:00

I know that McDonalds is a private company, but the flag is a national representation. If it's going to be displayed, then respect the symbol that it represents (the people of the United States/freedom).

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 7:49 AM

2015-03-17T07:49:48-04:00

I think Mr Ducotte needs to find something better to do. The owner of the establishment paid to fly a US flag, but due to issues made it a policy that the employees could not adjust it. The employees were likely focused on their job - selling hamburgers. For him to go to the restaraunt and threaten innocent workers with a protest reflects poorly on him and veterans everywhere. That does not excuse the conduct of the initial phone call, but this guy blew this way out of proportion.
It was a state order to state government buildings to honor the fallen Soldiers with half-staff colors. It is customary, but not required that private owners follow suit.

As a society we have become far to succeptable to outrage at every perceived slight. Sometimes, people make honest mistakes. Sometimes crap just happens. Sometimes bad apples behave poorly. Strive to do better yourself, learn to forgive trespasses, and you will be a happier person.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 8:34 AM

2015-03-17T08:34:43-04:00

It bothers me that, he felt the need to do that. If you are a veteran or even current active duty, surely you can remember at least one instance in which you were asked to do something that was above your paygrade. Even though it may seem like an easy task to the outsider, you still have to get it cleared from someone, whether it was your platoon leader, section chief, or whoever.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 9:48 AM

2015-03-17T09:48:18-04:00

Yes they should have but the vet went about it wrong detracting from the Profession of Arms. The most correct person was the Law Enforcement Officer. I serve with many of those who knew the Guardsmen who died. One of them and I were joking about raiding dealerships to lower their flags but decided not too. Disrespecting their right to ignorance is the worst thing we can do as vets.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-03-17T10:43:23-04:00

Maybe a chat with the manager may have been appropriate, if he felt that strongly about it. A shouting match on video...not appropriate.

It's not like every McDonald's is on the distro list for emails when the government declares the flags should be at half-staff.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Mar 17 at 2015 11:17 AM

2015-03-17T11:17:21-04:00

I will stop and ask a business or knock on a door and ask them to replace it or offer to replace it myself. I Always say who I am and that I have served in combat and that I currently serve in the National Guard. I have so far been met with good favor.
I once went to a McDonald's and requested a flag be taken down over it being grossly torn. The manager was a friend and an Army Veteran. He said that he couldn't "just take it down." they had to have a flag outside and that Corporate was sending one. After a month I requested that he remove the flag. After saying he couldn't I went out and tried to take it down. Unknown to me he had call the police on me. I knew the officer so when I threw a fit he asked me to leave. @ days later the was a smaller flag raised but it was replaced.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 1:39 PM

2015-03-17T13:39:39-04:00

This guy had the right idea, but he went about it the wrong way. Those of us in the military are supposed to be professionals. He was anything but. Now, sometimes there are those in the civilian population who are ignorant of some of our traditions. The kids working at the restaurant obviously didn't know any better. They also were obviously not trying to be disrespectful. I would not want this guy to represent me as a veteran. He was completely out of line and completely unprofessional.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 1:45 PM

2015-03-17T13:45:18-04:00

Yes and No. I see where he gets his compassion. I get 1/2 staff updates on my computer and let my employer know when we need to do it. Maybe they could get a responsible person to handle that process. There's really no right or wrong answer. They didn't have to do it if they didn't want to. Let's talk about how they want 15$ an hour tho and how they can't have those kind of responsibilities. ;-)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 1:50 PM

2015-03-17T13:50:44-04:00

I would have handled it differently but a small indicator of a much larger issue.

Once I was at a McDonald's and witnessed a young kid taking the American flag down for the day. He had laid the American Flag (Stars and Stripes) on the ground while securing the line. I politely stepped outside and picked up the flag, then gave a small history lesson about what that flag stands for and the respect it deserves. He had never been shown what right looks like and was grateful. We then folded and stored the American Flag correctly together - true story

Think before we act…

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 2:06 PM

2015-03-17T14:06:43-04:00

I would have handled it differently but a small indicator of a much larger issue.

Once I was at a McDonald's and witnessed a young kid taking the American flag down for the day. He had laid the Stars and Stripes on the ground while securing the line. I politely stepped outside and picked up the flag, then gave a small history lesson about what that flag stands for and the respect it deserves. He had never been shown what right looks like and was grateful. We folded and stored the American Flag correctly.

Think before we act…

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Mar 17 at 2015 2:09 PM

2015-03-17T14:09:19-04:00

They SHOULD have done the right thing and flown it at half-staff, but as a private business, they are under no compulsion to do so.

The veteran in the story got more wrapped around the axle than he should have. I mean, if he's gonna get upset for every violation of flag code and protocols, he's gonna have an embolism...

Response by SPC Joshua H. made Mar 17 at 2015 3:12 PM

2015-03-17T15:12:22-04:00

-It's a private establishment that probably didn't know about the order to fly flags at half mast-

The order goes to the state buildings, and as far as private sector, they do not have to follow that order. Do I think they should be choice? Yes I do. Do I feel they have a choice? Yes, even though I may not agree with their choice, we do still have some freedoms.

I understand both of these pictures. I personally don't agree with either of these pictures, but will defend to the death those who chose to use their freedom of speech.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Mar 17 at 2015 5:11 PM

2015-03-17T17:11:25-04:00

The Veteran Mr. Ducote, was wrong by making demands and to then threaten when his demands were not met. The fact that we as veterans have fought for the freedom and protection of our nation does not give us the right to go around making demands from those that we claimed we served for; I served because it was in my heart to serve. Once we as veterans or soldiers go around making demands followed by threats we fall into the same mentality as the despots we fight. The worst he did was to use threats that implied that other veterans will follow his misguided ways. He needs to go back and apologize to those that he threatened, provided he has the courage to do so. A soldier doing this would find himself in front of his or her First Sergeant and CO and so up the chain of command.

Response by PV2 Jesse Morris made Mar 17 at 2015 8:17 PM

2015-03-17T20:17:58-04:00

I appreciate the source of Ducote's passion and commitment, but this was a missed opportunity to connect and educate that ended in failure. I wasn't there, but I'm guessing a different approach and tone from the onset may have changed the outcome dramatically.

Ducote also claims to have purchased over 60 flags for businesses that lacked the money to replace their tattered or worn flags, which I respect immensely.

Response by SGT Steve Oakes made Mar 18 at 2015 11:28 AM

2015-03-18T11:28:35-04:00

I think everyone involved could have handled it better. Especially the woman on the phone. The police officer seems to be the only one who handled himself well in all this.

Response by SP5 Richard Maze made Mar 18 at 2015 11:41 AM

2015-03-18T11:41:36-04:00

Being right and being right-with-an-attitude are different things. If you make such a fuss that the police are called to escort you from the building, you probably went a little overboard.

Response by SSG Ted Penton made Mar 18 at 2015 12:02 PM

2015-03-18T12:02:48-04:00

Find something worthy of your anger dude! Mickey Dees ain't worth it...

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 12:09 PM

2015-03-18T12:09:49-04:00

The fact that Ducote was harassing a general employee about the matter or even a basic shift manager is definitely overboard. You simply say what you want to say and when they tell you they aren't permitted, you say thank you and then you contact corporate. That he harassed and threatened some large protest is fairly ridiculous.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Mar 18 at 2015 12:42 PM

2015-03-18T12:42:48-04:00

I'm not trying to sound disrespectful or ignorant, but flags are flown at half mast when ordered by higher authority, not because a service member dies in training or otherwise. if that were the case our flags would be flown at half mast for a long time because of so many service members who have died since 9/11.
I think this veteran, Mr. Ducote, was out of line. As a veteran I am certain he realizes that people above the employees that he threatened with protest are just doing their jobs, had they been told to lower the flags to half mast I am fairly certain it would be done.
Again no disrespect intended but Mr. Ducote needs to go fry some bigger fish if he wants to be an advocate for Veterans for Justice.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-03-18T14:34:15-04:00

McDonalds has nothing to do with the military other than remedial PT. Mr. Ducote needs to come to terms that he is not in the military and neither is McDonalds. One veteran to all the others, the civilian world in most cases could care less of your service. They give a lot of lip service, but there are those that will award veterans with discounts and that sort of thing but to be honest we all raised our hand without force and to expect anything more than the military and the VA to care for our brothers and sisters is crazy.

Response by SGT Jason Dougherty made Mar 18 at 2015 6:38 PM

2015-03-18T18:38:02-04:00

He was being an a$$. He'll probably make a fine cop when he gets out.

Look up the word "serve" and then you can go apologize to the McDonalds employee. To 'serve' means to do just that. You lay down your life, sacrifice your comfort, give up your future, so someone else can have the freedom to live their life in comfort in the future. You don't 'serve' so that you can lord it over the little people.

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Mar 18 at 2015 6:54 PM

2015-03-18T18:54:44-04:00

This guy sounds like a huge jerk who gets pissed whenever something doesn't go his way. Veterans like him, who think civilians owe us something, give us all a bad name.

Response by Cpl Mark Roles made Mar 18 at 2015 11:38 PM

2015-03-18T23:38:09-04:00

Civilian don't understand or look at things like we as veterans. I honestly think it could have been handled differently. But u cannot expect civilians to think or do what we have grown accustom to And what we see as the correct action to show respect. It would have been nice for them to show the respect. But, our traditions and respect for each other will never be understood by people that have never served.

Response by SGT Jennieff Snowden made Mar 19 at 2015 1:16 AM

2015-03-19T01:16:37-04:00

This McDonalds is 5/10min away from me. Maybe they didn't know the protocol and I didn't hear of any other McDonalds in Louisiana being bothered. But it does show good repoire especially if you want soldiers/veterans/contractors coming to your subsidiaries down range.

Response by SSG Douglas M. Ducote Sr. made Mar 19 at 2015 2:12 AM

2015-03-19T02:12:31-04:00

Hello fellow Brothers and Sisters, I am the veteran everyone is talking about on this post. If I may, I would like to share with you what the drive by liberal news media left out of the story!

First, I am rated by the Department of Veterans Affairs at 100% for PTSD, not something I am proud of I can assure you!

I am also rated for physical injures that occurred during Desert Storm and OIF.

From my enlistment in 1985 to my retirement in 2004 I served in 4 combat operations, of which I lost 62 friends between war and peace time. I have survived two crashes, one in a helicopter the other an airplane.

I live in Louisiana, we had just had one of our Army National Guard Helicopters crash in Florida, killing all 4 crew members, of which two I personal knew, and 7 Marines.

The day of the McDonald's incident in question a very good friend of mine lost her son in a car crash, he was a U.S. Marine Sgt. Adam Koczrowski, just today I assisted through my nonprofit with the escort of his body back home here to Louisiana.

My family and friends will tell you I'm the most patriotic person they have ever met, and they joke that I bleed Red, White, and Blue.

So I'm driving home from dinner with my 24 year old special needs son and girlfriend, taking notice of how many private business buildings were following suit with the Governors order, for all state buildings to fly their flags at half-staff. Then I pass our local McDonald's and notice their flag was not. My son asked me why, and I told him they are not required to, only state buildings, he asked me if I thought they would if we ask them to. I said let's find out, and with my cell phone placed the call. A female answered the phone and I asked to speak with the manager, she said I am the manager. I introduced myself and my organization Veterans United For Justice, and ask if they would be willing to "please" lower their flag to half-staff in honor of the Louisiana National Guard helicopter crash. She then told me that was not something she knew anything about, and would I hold on why she asked her supervisor, I said sure. Now she does not place me on hold, she is holding the phone and I hear every word said between her and her supervisor. I also have my phone on speaker mode so my son and girlfriend can hear. She relays my request to the supervisor and the supervisor says "tell him to call our corporate office on Monday", the manager relays this to me and I agreed I would, but then I said if you guys are to busy I would be more than willing to drive over and take care of it for you. She then tells this to her supervisor, who then says "just hang up the phone"! The manager says "good bye" and click it was over. Well did I mention I have PTSD? Yes, and incompetence/rudeness does not settle very well with those of us that suffer from this very debilitating disorder to say the least. I make my first u-turn and to McDonald's we go. From the video for those of you that have watched it, I very calmly walk up to the counter and without raising my voice ask the female at the counter wearing the white shirt (all others or in blue so I assume she is the manager), are you the one that just hung up on me? she say "yes", I said why?, she said "because you were cursing at me". Well now she is ball face lying to my face, my son, and my girlfriend, and that my friends is what pushed me over the edge! I am a man of honor, dignity, and respect...until you prove yourself to be other than. At that moment in life I had heard enough, I had been disrespected on the phone, and now to my face! For the next 20 minutes I keep asking to see her supervisor, that would be the one that said "just hang up the phone", and for the next 20 minutes my pleads fall on deft ears. So I said I would get a couple hundred veterans outside their business to protest how they treat veterans and those that died for their freedoms! I raised my voice, I never lost my composure nor uttered a single curse word, just 5 short years ago before tons of medication from VA shrinks and lots of PTSD counseling, things would have not been the same. Anyway, finally the manager speaks to us after a good 15 minute wait, when she realizes all of this is being caught of video, and she says "turn that camera off", we all said no, she said I'm calling the police, we said please do. The cops show up, we go outside to talk, he informs me we can't video tape in their place of business if they tells us no. He turns out to be a retired US Marine, and agrees 100% with me that the chain of events that took place could have been avoided, had I not been so blatantly disrespected on the phone and then in person. The next day I received a call from the owner of this and 20 other McDonald's, he said he watched the video himself, and apologized for the manager and her supervisor actions towards me, and then ordered all of his managers to lower their flags to half-staff asap. Now here we are today, and I'm told this manager had just turned 17 years old, is now traumatized for life, in fear of her life, can't ever work again, and her parents are meeting with attorneys to "take me and my veterans nonprofit down". That my Brothers and Sisters is what the media fails to tell you!

SSG. Douglas M. Ducote Sr.
United States Army (Ret.)
CEO Veterans United For Justice

Response by CMSgt James Frankland made Mar 19 at 2015 2:39 AM

2015-03-19T02:39:42-04:00

Lets back up a minute and look at this from the perspective of the Federal Flag Code. If I get any of this wrong, someone please correct me.
The Federal Flag Code has very specific instructions for when the flag is to be flown at half staff and in what circumstance who my order it. If my reading is correct, the primary individual who may order the flag to be flown at half staff is the President and when and for whom is very specifically spelled out. The governors of the individual states can also order flags to be flown at half staff for specific persons and at very specific times. If I'm reading this correctly, the governor who ordered flags to be flown at half staff exceeded his authority under the National Flag Code because I do believe that it was much too soon after the incident for the individual from his state to be buryed. I'm sorry to all but I strongly believe that with regard to the flag being flown at half staff, a great number if individuals in this country go way beyond what is called for in the Flag Code and what is appropriate, My two cents.

Response by PO1 Steven Kuhn made Mar 19 at 2015 8:26 AM

2015-03-19T08:26:05-04:00

If any establishment flies our flag, they should do so with all the respect, honor and courtesies demanded. Flying the Flag means something and so do the lives lost in the incident this patriot mentioned!

Response by SGT Alan Sledge made Mar 19 at 2015 10:42 AM

2015-03-19T10:42:21-04:00

This is the freedom we defend. I can understand where his heart was, but it was an avoidable situation that didn't have to escalate to that point. These establishments are free to do what they want. Eh...but whatever.

Response by 2d Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 9:08 PM

2015-03-19T21:08:22-04:00

If anyone cares to look at a map the Walker McDs is aboit a 15-20min drive to the 1-244th where the BlackHawk and its crew were stationed. It's essentially a local business and the surrounding community had ready followed suit. The family that owns the local chain of McDs remedied the issue quickly and respectfully.

If this were a restaurant in north La 2-3hrs away Id cut them some slack but it wasn't

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Mar 20 at 2015 1:34 AM

2015-03-20T01:34:02-04:00

dude....he a Vet...he has rights....only vets have rights in America while the rest only have privileges. :-)

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2015 2:09 AM

2015-03-20T02:09:09-04:00

I saw this on the news and read about it in the paper. This had nothing to do wiht the flag. It started because he was hung up on for being belligerent.

Some people will argue just to argue! There are people out there who like to do that. They just like to start fights. So, yeah, he went way overboard. I'll bleed on the flag to keep the stripes red, but I'm not going to lose my mind about it. Some things are just not worth to trouble. I would've mentioned it to the manager, and if he told me he wouldn't due to anti-american activity or vandalism, I'd be cool with it. Because I'll really lose my mind if someone did vandalize the flag.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2015 8:26 AM

2015-03-20T08:26:00-04:00

As my old Platoon Sergeant in the Marines used to say, good initiative bad judgement.

Response by SFC James Young made Mar 20 at 2015 2:31 PM

2015-03-20T14:31:23-04:00

I think the dude is being unreasonable. First he should have talked to a manager, then higher in the chain rather than threatning to have 200 vets there to protest.

McDonalds is not a government organization, therefore is not subject to regulations like buildings on military installations.

It is sticklers like this who run around making ppl think vets are crazy, thus scaring businesses out of hiring vets...dude, get over it, pick your battles.

Response by PFC Alex Rivers made Mar 20 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-03-20T15:46:22-04:00

In all honesty working in front-end sales and retail. When the boss or manager puts down an order not to touch/move equipment and decorations we heed it for fear of losing our jobs. Its not meant out of disrespect towards anyone.

Response by SSG Gabriel Garcia made Mar 20 at 2015 6:28 PM

2015-03-20T18:28:44-04:00

Display of American flag should be known by all Americans not just military. We defend the flag and the country. We don't make the rules.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2015 11:21 PM

2015-03-20T23:21:58-04:00

Oh my Home...yes I think the flag should have been flown properly, yes I feel the staff could have been better trained and knowing that area well, probably better screened before being hired. There is no reason for redness on either end. The employee did not seem educated enough to be in a managers slot or they would have know what the governor had said. Though the vet could have handled himself better, let's think about what he has gone through and think about other underlying issues he may be having. I am sure more than a few of us can relate.

Response by SSgt Donna Griego made Mar 21 at 2015 7:59 PM

2015-03-21T19:59:31-04:00

To inform them of the order and to request they lower the flag was not wrong. To get angry about it was. Most civilian establishments have no idea about these things and mean no disrespect. The fact thst they fly the flag says a lot.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2015 10:49 PM

2015-03-21T22:49:13-04:00

So, it seem this man will try to push for communism or socialism, last time I remember congress made a distinct law about public vs private. Public is owned by state, federal property is owned by federal, private establishments is own privately. The flag is a symbol of freedom and a reminder of where you are just incase you forget. Flag rules only applies to state and federal establishments. The law is the law, ethical political views don't apply in policies. Only policies that are effective applies.

Response by Cpl Cameron Palmisano made Mar 21 at 2015 11:13 PM

2015-03-21T23:13:13-04:00

Honestly, it's not a national tragedy. It is very unfortunate, to say the least, but it is not a national tragedy.

Response by SPC Phillip Jackson made Mar 21 at 2015 11:21 PM

2015-03-21T23:21:35-04:00

I think he went a bit overboard. He should have approached the manager with a little more manners. Took what the manager said at face value and made a call to the corporate office. McDonalds fired a manager for buying some firefighters breakfast at some store a while ago. You don't think they wouldn't fire a manager for doing something against a corporate policy ? Why pick a fight with a low level manager because you think you know something. Sounds like a bully. Just saying.

Response by SA Dave Terry made Mar 21 at 2015 11:28 PM

2015-03-21T23:28:02-04:00

If you're going to fly the flag you should have to learn proper flag etiquette. It pisses me off to no end to see flags flying in the rain, not at half staff when they should be, and flying at night in the dark.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2015 11:41 PM

2015-03-21T23:41:44-04:00

Great idea to educate businesses on flag eticate but poor execution in how the situation was handled. More professionalism would have gotten a clearer explanation and no police response.

Response by SPC Buzz Loring made Mar 22 at 2015 12:02 AM

2015-03-22T00:02:22-04:00

Another case of a hyper sensitive veteran overreacting to civilian ambivalence. That was a lot of unnecessary drama over a flag flying above a McDonalds in the middle of God knows where Lousiana.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2015 8:36 AM

2015-03-22T08:36:00-04:00

They can fly their flag any way they want.

Response by CSM Tommy Nester made Mar 22 at 2015 10:44 AM

2015-03-22T10:44:26-04:00

From the Nov.-Dec. 1994 National Flag Foundations "Standard Bearer" Magazine.
This article remains the copyrighted material of the National Flag Foundation and is presented here by permission.

Flying the flag at half-staff is an area of flag etiquette that most people want to make sure they get right. It is also an area for which the road to error is routinely paved with good intentions. With that in mind, we offer this refresher course as the all-important intersection where knowledge meets benevolence.

FLYING THE FLAG AT HALF-STAFF: The pertinent section of the Flag Code says, "by order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possesion, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.

In the event of the death a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that state, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff." The code also includes other related details including the specific length of time during which the flag should be displayed at half-staff, in the event of the death of a "principal figure"(e.g., 30 days for the death of a sitting or former President, 10 days for the death of a sitting Vice-President,etc.).

GOOD-FAITH MISUNDERSTANDINGS: Although the code is actually pretty clear, confusion continues to occur. For example, U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno recently ordered the American Flag flown at half-staff on all U.S. Department of Justice buildings, in honor of several DEA agents who had died. While NFF understands this gesture, the Flag Code does not give Attorney General Reno the authority to issue that order. Closer to NFF's Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania home, Mayor Tom Murphy ordered all flags flown at half-staff to honor the victims of a plane crash. Here again, a well-intentioned gesture, but one for which no authority exists. NFF points out these "good-faith misunderstandings" not to criticize or embarrass anyone, but rather to head off a growing trivialization of this memorial salute, and to preserve the dignity and significance of flying the U.S. flag at half-staff. To any readers who may think that NFF is insensitive for raising these breaches of etiquette, please be assured that our motives are pure. We grieve these human loses deeply; however, we believe proper respect for our flag must be maintained - no matter the circumstances.

Response by SPC Louis Copechal made Mar 22 at 2015 12:04 PM

2015-03-22T12:04:50-04:00

Alright fellow brothers n sisters... Its actions taken like this that makes it look bad for other veterans.... Am i passionate about my Country? Do i care about old Red White n Blue? Yes i do but i cant expect ALL citizens to understand policies pertaining to the Flag. The problem here is not that it wasn't at half mast, the problem was those who work there are misinformed and do not know the protocol. Keep your managers informed about such matters and it can be dealt with properly.

Response by SPC Diana D. made Mar 22 at 2015 4:36 PM

2015-03-22T16:36:46-04:00

I think that if the McDonald's employee that answered his first phone call would have handled the situation a little differently and if the vet had handled the situation a little differently that both could have come to an understanding that did not involve local law enforcement. Unfortunately people of the next generation have no more respect for the military than they do the average citizen.

Response by CPL Jesse Vasconcelos made Mar 22 at 2015 6:51 PM

2015-03-22T18:51:25-04:00

If the establishment legitimately didn't know then yes he could have been considered going overboard. But if they out right refused he would be justified. Wether the establishment is owned by an owner of any race or religion or had a different belief we live and operate in this great nation and must follow this orders by the state or government to lower our flag in honor of the deceased person(s). My question is organization follow this same criteria if it was lowered for a foreign country?