Do you think the USAF should have Squadron Superintendents?

MSgt Michelle Spickler — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 19:21:02 -0500

Do you think the USAF should have Squadron Superintendents? I have been at a base for almost 10 years now 4 active duty and 6 as a GS civilian and this is the first time I have ever seen an individual given the title of Superintendent within an Operational Support Squadron. At all my other bases we had a Group Superintendent and a First Sergeant that dealt with all of the enlisted matters so everyone in the Group had a fair shake. Now you have personnel being assigned as a Superintendent as an additional duty or the CC's making this a full-time job. It seems to me we keep hearing about doing more with less but people keep making up duty titles and more work instead of these SNCO's mentoring the Airman they are supposed to be in charge of at their duty location. Everyone needs to get back in their career fields, do their jobs, mentor their people and let the people in the actual positions that exist on the Unit Manning Document do the jobs they are supposed to (Group Superintendent/First Sergeant). The enlisted force is doing nothing but micromanaging themselves and it tends to cause more harm to a SQ than good.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Mar 3 at 2016 8:10 PM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 20:10:01 -0500

Sounds like another zebra trying to justify his job to get out of an assignment...

Response by TSgt Dawn Premock made Mar 3 at 2016 8:43 PM

TSgt Dawn Premock — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 20:43:55 -0500

When I was in the Contracting Squadron we had a Superintendent/ First Sgt. I think it depends on the mission and size of the Squadron.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 10:56 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 22:56:54 -0500

Speaking from a non Air Force person, what exactly is a Squadron Superintendent and what do they do?

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Mar 3 at 2016 11:16 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 23:16:59 -0500

Is it really just a question of recognition of the value of the position? If it were important, it would be there, be a prerequisite pathway to a higher position/promotion. If the institution valued it.... I was absolutely baffled by the following senior NCO phenomena in the Air Force. During my assignment in Germany, I was subjected to a high volume of AFN. I saw a commercial advertising for a Air Force NCOs to be First Sergeants, begging really. Dizzying, that the senior NCO at company level was not only optional but voluntary. My suggestion to solve it was met with seething hate, but I recommended making it a Joint Billet. Hungry Army Sergeants First Class all over Germany would have flooded the zone just to earn a 12 month NCOER with it on there.

The Army is simple. If you were never a Platoon Sergeant, you won't make E8. If you were never a First Sergeant as an E8, there would be no WAY to make E9. The Command Sergeants Major are centrally selected with the Battalion and Brigade Commanders by the Army. Once a CSM, they NEVER willingly revert to a Staff Sergeant Major (which is what happens if you are not renominated). It is valued, clearly regarded as the path to success, and consequently coveted and competitive.

Alternatively, not all Army organizations led by Lieutenant Colonels or Colonels are authorized a CSM, they are usually authorized a senior NCO for the command, Master Sergeant or Staff Sergeant Major. They are usually institutional army organizations, and not deplorable, warfighting, organizations.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 11:18 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 23:18:18 -0500

While in some cases it might make sense for a group super to handle the squadrons under them, large squadrons (CE, cops, LRS) have too many people for the super at the group level to handle everyone. Additionally, many of the super's responsibilities are not necessarily aligned with the job description for a first shirt. The AF has squadron supers to handle these roles and many times that translates to smaller squadrons adopting the duty titles as well. I don't think it's an issue of whether or not the AF should have squadron supers, but more of a question of how many hats an individual who fills that role actually wears.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2016 3:41 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 03:41:29 -0500

An OSS can definitely use a superintendent because of the afsc diversity and getting them to work together. There are needs that may not be noticed otherwise such as a squadron being filled with too many junior folks in a specific afsc and the element failing, because that specialty doesn't feel that it should speak up. The superintendent can give a different voice to a squadron. There is a needed mentoring aspects as well.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2016 6:36 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 06:36:12 -0500

when I came over to the AF reserve from the Army AD I thought it was really strange that a Squadron (comparable to a Company) had not just one but three E9s. when my entire battalion had one E9. I think is comes down to two things, the AF takes care of its enlisted better, and the First Sergeant being a special duty not a rank.

Response by MSgt Stephen Council made Mar 4 at 2016 9:13 AM

MSgt Stephen Council — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 09:13:59 -0500

MSgt Michelle Spickler My last squadron prior to retirement had both a First Sergeant and a Squadron Superintendent. Our 1st Shirt was a totalitarian dictator that had no concept of the reality of being a young airman in the Air Force of 2006. In contrast, I as a flight Superintendent and our Squadron Superintendent were able to keep his "kill them all" attitude toward airmen in check. In this way we were able to foster teamwork and professionalism among our subordinates and our leaders. So, to answer your questions; yes, I believe there is great value to be added by formalizing the Squadron Superintendent position.

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Mar 4 at 2016 11:30 AM

MSgt John Taylor — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 11:30:54 -0500

My last Sq (AMXS with 4 AMU's) had 1000 personnel, with several AFSC's and two different missions. The Sq Superintendent was responsible for maintaining the manning levels across the board. His position was definitely needed.

Also, when you take the fact that a 1st shirt (or 4 of them in my last Sq case) might not have any knowledge of how to perform any of the jobs within a squadron, having a superintendent makes more sense

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2016 11:55 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Mar 2016 11:55:50 -0500

It all depends on the size of the squadron and mission of that squadron. A superintendent can focus all sections of the squadron into the primary mission instead of each doing their own thing. The superintendent still has to mentor as per the little brown book but he now has more on his plate. He has to keep the squadron mission focused.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2016 2:32 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 02:32:23 -0500

Position is in the brown book. It's real and necessary for many units.

Response by SMSgt William Gardner made Mar 8 at 2016 8:59 AM

SMSgt William Gardner — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 08:59:20 -0500

I was a Shirt for a Maintenance Group and I agree with your perspective. I was also in a Medical Group as Shirt for a Medical Squadron. We had three squadrons withon the group. A Shirt and Superintendent for each and also a Group Superintendent. It worked well for the Medical Group because each Squadron had a different mission. I have always looked to the Superintendent as being an advocate of tthe enlisted especially the operational side.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2016 10:03 AM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:03:48 -0500

I have had superintendents in almost every Sq. I was in and in every one I was the First Sergeant for there is a need for operational expertise especially in maintenance squadrons. As a First Sergeant I worked with the Superintendent in that I would ask about the Airmens work performance when I was dealing with personnel issues as I feel they are tied to each other at times. Where as the first Sergeant deals with the People side of it the Superintendent dealt with the production side but the First Sergeant needs to make sure that the Superintendent understands the areas of responsibility each holds.

Response by MSgt Michael Lane made Mar 8 at 2016 10:21 AM

MSgt Michael Lane — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:21:36 -0500

No their are enough made up positions already it’s just one more person getting in to your business.

Response by SMSgt Cary Baker made Mar 8 at 2016 10:30 AM

SMSgt Cary Baker — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:30:40 -0500

MSgt, good question. I'm retired now, but I think it depends on the unit if they have squadron superintendents or not. My career was with big missiles, ICBMs. In my 28 years, we always had squadron superintendents, Flt superintendents, and down to the NCOICs. Sq Sup - is an expert in his/her career field, or should be if all possible, and usually Chiefs. Years ago, they were called Senior Enlisted Advisors. That person's job is to ensure that the correct advise is given to his/her commanders and down to the squadron. As a Sq Sup, not a day went by that I wasn't talking to my commander about the current and upcoming missions, about specific issues with some of the airman, and many other things. Many times I told my commander (in private) that I thought he was making a wrong decision and would always give him the advise to help him make the correct decision). They didn't always change those decisions, but it was my job to do that and support the commander 100% of the time. Now you could say this is the job of the 1st Sgt. Yes and no! A 1st Sgt is the liaison between the enlisted force and the commander, but the 1st Sgt, who comes from all career fields, doesn't have any idea about the mission that's going on. As an NCOIC, Flt Superintendent, and Sq Superintendent - I never let a 1st Sgt come in my wheel house and tell me how things will happen - and it had happened a couple times. However, I always supported the 1st Sgt and kept them informed at all times. And I ensured they were involved in all the meetings with the commander. When I went to the academy's, I found out that not units had Squadron Superintendents - I believe it can be weighed in either direction. When I was a Flt Superintendent, I really didn't need a Sq Superintendent. Myself and my Capt ran the flight and we kept the Commander informed at all times. But a good Sq Superintendent can keep the squadron (management level) running smooth. Good Question.

Response by CMSgt Scott Haskins made Mar 8 at 2016 10:36 AM

CMSgt Scott Haskins — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:36:51 -0500

Yes. When we first introduced Squadron Superintendents in recruiting squadrons it was a struggle. The Production Superintendent had always ran the show. Roles need to be clearly defined & the CC needs to understand the roles so they are utilizing both to their fullest potential. I received one of the first non-recruiting Chiefs in my squadron and it was a real challenge. We butted heads and morale suffered. He was trying to be a recruiter but did not have the experience. I was being hard headed because it was a major change. I was an E-8 who was running the show and then a Chief shows up & wants to be the man. I finally gave him production stats & analysis on a struggling recruiter and asked him to figure out what was wrong with & how to fix this recruiter. He couldn't. At that point we came to an understanding: He would mentor me & the other Airmen in the squadron to grow as NCO's & I would teach him as much about recruiting as possible. It was much easier to have the weight of the "Chief" behind you when you were pushing to meet mission. This turned out to be a great combination and our squadron did very well. He became one of my greatest mentors and to this day a very good friend. Short answer: Make sure roles are defined and you work together within your roles to accomplish the mission.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2016 11:10 AM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 11:10:36 -0500

To answer your Question, a superintendent is necessary, however I do I feel some Sups do poorly at mentoring, and often they are that way because they have only been concerned with their own organizational standing, in a squadron the Superintendant and the First Sergeant should be working in tandem to make life better for their enlisted corps and steer the CC to have that mindset, with good continuity and vision , it doesn't matter who the CC is ,a Strong Superintendant can be a powerful force for morale and welfare of all members of squadron, but the opposite can happen with a poor Super/and Shirt

Response by MSgt Frank Hickman made Mar 8 at 2016 11:13 AM

MSgt Frank Hickman — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 11:13:07 -0500

This is the first time I have heard of such as a superintendent. I have been retired for 40 years. I guess things have changed a lot. Don't sound like military to me.

Response by Col Robert Ginn made Mar 8 at 2016 11:58 AM

Col Robert Ginn — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 11:58:42 -0500

We do already. They're called "Commanders" and "First Sergeants". Just learn your f-ing job and do it.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2016 12:38 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:38:55 -0500

A Squadron Superintendent may be needed if a Squadron has had several years of mismanagement and needs to get back on track.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Mar 8 at 2016 12:46 PM

SrA David Steyer — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:46:21 -0500

I saw this pop up in my email, and first time I logged in in a while but this is something that I got thinking about years ago: Yes, it was all I ever knew in my years of service in the medical world. Sounds like not all squadrons have them, and not all squadrons have their own First Sergeants either because all the First Sergeants I dealt with were for the group.

However I would go further make it a reporting identifier like Group Superintendent is already. I have seen some bases are slotted a SMSgt for an AFSC, and whoever the SMSgt that holds that AFSC and is assigned to the squadron almost always filling the SQ Superintendent position, while they are slotted for their AFSC and depending on the work load...you may never ever see them doing AFSC related work so it def. needs some tweaking.

Response by SMSgt Bryan Raines made Mar 8 at 2016 3:52 PM

SMSgt Bryan Raines — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 15:52:35 -0500

In my 27 years in the Air Force I can only remember a couple of times we did not have Squadron Superintendents. My last two years in I was a Squadron Superintendent. I had over 120 enlisted personnel and at least that many officers. We shared a First Sgt with 2 other Squadrons. Our group had over 1000 personnel, mostly enlisted. No way should a Group Super have to handle all that.

Response by CMSgt Tom Qualls made Mar 8 at 2016 4:44 PM

CMSgt Tom Qualls — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 16:44:40 -0500

As a former Squadron Sup and Group Sup, I can definitely say in some instances, SQ Sups are needed. They provide mentorship, assists in numerous area a 1st Sgt neither has the time or expertise to and provides guidance to the SQ CC on enlisted matters. Provides critical support to the Group Sup. As mentioned, in larger Squadron's, there's no way a Group Super could accomplish the roles of several large squadrons. During my time, the majority of Group Sups came from the SQ Sup ranks, just as a large number of Command Chief's came from the Group Sup ranks. I do believe there are times a Chief is needed as a Sup and times they are not. Overall though, I believe it's a needed and vital function....

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Mar 8 at 2016 8:24 PM

SMSgt Sheila Berg — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 20:24:31 -0500

A Squadron Superintendent is very important for management of personal. They see management deficits to improve the efficiency of the Squadron.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 12:10 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 00:10:12 -0500

The Squadron Superintendent position is a vital part of the leadership triad. It is generally the most senior enlisted member in the squadron whether officially earned on the unit manning document or not. The SQ Superintendents role is to be enlisted leadership advocate for morale and welfare of the enlisted force. The triad ensures the balance in the approach to matters affecting enlisted personnel and is intended to prevent the rogue 1st Sgt "kill them all mentality" and balance the approach when it comes to enlisted matters as they pertain to the mossion. Most SQs that do not earn a superintendent will pull one "out-of-hide" and will serve as a working superintendent. If you want to change the UMD to reflect the Superintendent if it is not reflected, you will need to submit an authorization change request (ACR) to your local Manpower office. If the change is warranted then it will be submitted to MAJCOM for approval and the update to the UMD.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 2:35 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 02:35:13 -0500

We have a superintendent for each S function in our squadron. Granted, I'm in a Security Forces squadron, so that could be different than an OSS.

Response by MSgt Kerry Lundy made Mar 9 at 2016 6:38 AM

MSgt Kerry Lundy — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 06:38:59 -0500

Can someone give me the AFSC and Job description of a Squadron Supt. I retired in 1986 and spent most of my time in transportation where had three Supt. one in each of the three areas Maintainance,operations and traffic management, First Sgt handled orderly room. I can't wrap my head around what a Sq. Supt. would be doing that these four aren't already doing.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 11:56 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 11:56:50 -0500

Yes, squadron superintendent is a regular duty and duty title in the AD force. Their job is managing the functional and operational aspects of the squadron. These responsibilities are outside the scope of the First Sergeant. Furthermore, the group superintendent shouldn't usually get into that level of detail in a squadron since they may or may not be the same AFSC and they have several squadrons to worry about.