Do You Think The Surge Worked?

2015-08-11T11:33:17-04:00

The Surge was a disaster.

"Over the past decade, the foreign-policy debate in Washington has turned upside down. As George W. Bush’s administration drew to an end, the brand of ambitious, expensive, Manichaean, militaristic foreign policy commonly dubbed “neoconservative” seemed on the verge of collapse. In December 2006, the Iraq Study Group, which included such Republican eminences as James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Ed Meese, and Alan Simpson, repudiated Bush’s core approach to the Middle East. The group not only called for the withdrawal from Iraq by early 2008 of all U.S. combat troops not necessary for force protection. It also proposed that the United States begin a “diplomatic dialogue, without preconditions,” with the government of Iran, which Bush had included in his “axis of evil,” and that it make the Arab-Israeli peace process, long scorned by hawks, a priority. Other prominent Republicans defected too. Senator Gordon Smith of Oregon called the president’s Iraq policy “absurd” if not “criminal.” George Will, the dean of conservative columnists, deemed neoconservatism a “spectacularly misnamed radicalism” that true conservatives should disdain."

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2015/08/gop-candidates-led-astray-legend-surge/119011/?oref=d-river

Don't Be Led Astray by the Legend of the Surge

Having misunderstood the lessons of the Iraq War, Republicans are taking a dangerously hawkish turn.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Aug 11 at 2015 11:34 AM

2015-08-11T11:34:59-04:00

"The legend of the surge has become this era’s equivalent of the legend that America was winning in Vietnam until, in the words of Richard Nixon’s former defense secretary Melvin Laird, “Congress snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by cutting off funding for our ally in 1975.” In the late 1970s, the legend of the congressional cutoff—and it was a legend; Congress reduced but never cut off South Vietnam’s aid—spurred the hawkish revival that helped elect Ronald Reagan. As we approach 2016, the legend of the surge is playing a similar role. Which is why it’s so important to understand that the legend is wrong."

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Aug 11 at 2015 11:49 AM

2015-08-11T11:49:34-04:00

The surge did work because it brought the violence down! If you are expecting resolution (or anything of the sort) with a Pashtun warriors, that's not going to happen.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Aug 11 at 2015 12:02 PM

2015-08-11T12:02:02-04:00

In Iraq - absolutely. In Afghanistan, not so much - the POTUS announced retreat in the same speech he ordered the (downsized) charge.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Aug 11 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-08-11T12:56:44-04:00

At the Operational level, yes, definitely. It was not a permanent fix at the strategic level.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Aug 11 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-08-11T14:17:22-04:00

"The ISIS’ current onslaught, in which a few thousand (at most) Sunni fighters—better-trained, armed, and organized than any the US faced—soundly defeated Iraqi army units many times their number, looks to be in part the reaping of a crop sown in the aftermath of the pointless American invasion and its frighteningly amateurish occupation.

Ricks ended The Gamble with a haunting line: “The events for which the Iraq war will be remembered by us and by the world have not yet happened.”

For years, especially after the American troop drawdown, it seemed as though Iraq would muddle along in a chaotic but eventually stabilizing way familiar to many Middle Eastern countries with oil wealth. Although the bombings continued, it was possible to believe that the conflict was in fact done. What the recent events have proven is that Ricks was right: the 11-year-old Iraq War is far from over."

http://www.popmatters.com/post/182876-the-2009-book-that-foretold-the-possible-collapse-of-post-american-i/

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Aug 11 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-08-11T15:20:16-04:00

I think it's fair to say that the Surge "worked" but that it was also a rather pointless endeavor. Iraq needed a lot more time than we could possibly have given them to get their crap together. All we did was absorb some of the violence that would have otherwise been directed internally. The Iraqi people didn't ask to be liberated and it was abundantly clear shortly after the invasion that they weren't ready for the opportunity.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2015 5:04 PM

2015-08-11T17:04:38-04:00

The basic argument is flawed, all the points in the article state because of failures after the surge the surge was not a victory and the surge mindset is wrong. Significant leap in logic and time. There is no evidence in the article suggesting the surge didn't work when it was in place. The article certainly identifies problems post surge where our countries lack of commitment (the major item the surge communicated to the Iraqi people) by retaining a residual force in Iraq that commitment would have been clearer to the Iraqi's and they likely would have listened to our advisors rather than seeing them as risk factors.
The Iraqi war was lost as a direct result of our ability to see the war through to it's end.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 11 at 2015 5:26 PM

2015-08-11T17:26:11-04:00

Who you gonna believe?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aM9XOyqf06lI

Obama Says Iraq Surge Success Beyond `Wildest Dreams' (Update2)
By Kim Chipman and Julianna Goldman - September 4, 2008 23:30 EDT

Sept. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Barack Obama said the surge of American forces in Iraq has ``succeeded beyond our wildest dreams,'' though Iraqis still haven't done enough to take responsibility for their country.

``The surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,'' Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, said in a recorded interview broadcast tonight on Fox News's ``The O'Reilly Factor'' program.

Obama Says Iraq Surge Success Beyond `Wildest Dreams' (Update2) - Bloomberg

Barack Obama said the surge of American forces in Iraq has ``succeeded beyond our wildest dreams,'' though Iraqis still haven't done enough to take responsibility for their country.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 11 at 2015 5:48 PM

2015-08-11T17:48:05-04:00

I don't agree. The surge was part of the continuum of war and nation building.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Aug 11 at 2015 6:45 PM

2015-08-11T18:45:02-04:00

All I know is.....We were winning when I left!

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Aug 11 at 2015 9:09 PM

2015-08-11T21:09:20-04:00

Lord Above. Is there any PME worthy of the name taught any more?

Walt

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Aug 11 at 2015 10:34 PM

2015-08-11T22:34:43-04:00

Once upon a time Iran was the stabilizing influence of the Middle East. Its Persian roots held it aloof from the inter-tribal wars that plagued the rest of the region. Then Jimmy Carter upset the apple cart by pulling the props out from under the Peacock Throne and everything went to hell. Now we can't restore the Shah (or a Shah) but we might be able to work with the dissidents there to establish a more modern non-theocratic regime with which we could work. The dissidents have tested the waters a couple of times looking for help from America, but President Obama has disappointed them. Has that opportunity passed forever from the realm of possibility? Who knows? If George Bush proved one thing it's that Iraq could never be the new Iran. It is forever trapped in inter-sectarian and inter-familial warfare. Only Iran can be Iran. It would probably help if they took a giant leap back and returned to worshiping fire...

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Aug 12 at 2015 7:59 AM

2015-08-12T07:59:41-04:00

"The Republican foreign policy platform of the post-George W. Bush era is built around this idea that we actually won the Iraq war before Obama came in and lost it. It’s a fabrication, and it was concocted by the same people who dreamed up the invasion in the first place so that they could dodge ownership of the disaster they created. It’s a fiction that gives false comfort to those who believe against all evidence that the United States can reshape the world through military power – a notion that almost every Republican presidential candidate subscribes to.

Peter Beinart wrote the most recent debunking of the idea that the surge “succeeded” for the latest issue of The Atlantic, making the critical point that the reduction in violence that conservatives and Republicans boast about today was not its primary goal:

The United States military bribed, cajoled, and bludgeoned Iraqis into multiple cease-fires. The Iraqi state was still broken; its new ruling elite showed little of the political magnanimity necessary to reconstruct it in an inclusive fashion. And the Band-Aids that Petraeus and his troops had courageously affixed began peeling off almost immediately."

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/12/jebs_iraq_revisionism_his_idiot_brother_wrecked_the_place_but_its_all_obamas_fault/

Jeb’s Iraq revisionism: His idiot brother wrecked the place, but it’s all Obama’s fault

Jeb can't very well pretend his brother's fiasco of a war didn't happen. So he rewrites history

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Aug 12 at 2015 8:01 AM

2015-08-12T08:01:58-04:00

"So why was the success of the surge followed by a withdrawal from Iraq, leaving not even the residual force that commanders and the joint chiefs knew was necessary?" - Jeb Bush 8/11/15

The answer, as we all know, is that the Iraqis refused to approve a SOFA that would indemnify US military members and not hold them accountable under Iraqi law. So we had to leave.

The Rethugs hope you have a bad memory.

Walt

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Aug 12 at 2015 9:11 AM

2015-08-12T09:11:07-04:00

Guys, I was sitting in a bar last night as I often do and I saw the Fox News item where J. Bush is trying to drag Madame Clinton into the failure of the Surge.

The Rethugs think you are stupid. You are too stupid to remember anything.

The Surge did not fail because President Obama pulled our forces from Iraq. The Surge failed because we could no longer tamp down the sectarian violence that still roils Iraq. President Obama planned to keep forces there, but the Iraqis refused to approve a SOFA that we could live with. President Obama might have sighed with relief, but he didn’t arbitrarily pull out of Iraq.

Getting on President Obama for what happened in Iraq is like getting on President Truman because the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

Walt

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Aug 13 at 2015 4:53 PM

2015-08-13T16:53:54-04:00

Sure, look how good it looks now!

Response by CPT Russell Pitre made Aug 14 at 2015 1:44 AM

2015-08-14T01:44:49-04:00

From what I saw in Iraq it seemed to have worked. If you want some advice on military strategy you shouldn't be looking for it with some article from a political pundit. These are some the same guys that thought ISIS wasn't a big deal.