Do you think the DoD should remove the 1 yr in service requirement for new Soldiers to attend college?

SFC Randy Purham — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:35:22 -0400

With the requirement for Soldiers to be in the service for at least a year before they can use TA seems to contribute to the apathy of Soldiers wanting to personally and professional progress. It also contributes to them being further behind than their peers both in service or out. Do you think the restrictions should be lifted to maintain an intelligent and educated force?

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Apr 3 at 2016 3:40 PM

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Response by Sgt Joshua Mardino made Apr 3 at 2016 3:50 PM

Sgt Joshua Mardino — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:50:42 -0400

A more educated workforce is a better workforce. Young servicemen can learn a lot about discipline and accountability from taking college courses while serving. They learn how to manage time more efficiently among other skills that quite frankly cannot be taught.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Apr 3 at 2016 3:54 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:54:18 -0400

Look at the bright side of they'd accept it and!add more!majors incl more grad programs over time the whole problem you've described could then become moot you know? Besides they might not even know it exists, why not ask them directly? If the service member pays for the admin and!exam costs I would then see no problem, you think? Those costs shpould be relatively minimal I should think...

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Apr 3 at 2016 3:57 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:57:19 -0400

Yes. If we're going to worry about a ROI, then they shouldn't be allowed until they reenlist. But that is wrong. There is already a cap on the amount of TA anyone can use in a year, so why not let them have at it? My caveats to this are:
1. Soldiers going to units that are deploying within that year.
2. Soldiers that are IN units that are slotted for deployment within that calendar or fiscal year.
3. Soldiers who are flagged
4. Soldiers who are facing short term separation.
5. Soldiers who are in IET status. I know there are some LONG AIT's in Signal Corps, and those in those schools and others like it do not need to have college blocking their ability to learn.

Response by SSG Craig Thompson made Apr 3 at 2016 4:10 PM

SSG Craig Thompson — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 16:10:01 -0400

No, I think that is a good idea. Why invest the TA in a soldier, when some of them are chaptered out within the first yr

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Apr 3 at 2016 4:41 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 16:41:54 -0400

No. We can't hand them everything without proof they are going to be gung ho soldiers. The reputation of the soldier allowed us to determine how much time off we were going to give to a soldier to attend school. Their craft is the military, not competing with Joe who went to college.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Apr 3 at 2016 4:44 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 16:44:37 -0400

No...Soldiers need to spend that time mastering their craft. Military education/MOS proficiency should come before civilian education; 12-months doesn't hurt.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Apr 3 at 2016 5:36 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 17:36:20 -0400

My humble opinion is that the TA requirements need to go back to the way they were. If we want to promote education among the enlisted, restricting access to funding is not conducive to this goal.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 3 at 2016 6:18 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 18:18:13 -0400

What is the purpose of the requirement? Is it a cost saving measure? Or is it to keep the service member focused on fundamental skill development?

If it's a cost saving measure then arguments need to be shown how lifting the restriction either don't save month or they restriction actually wastes money.

If it is designed to keep "new" service members focused on fundamental skill development, similar arguments need to be shown, however, we must remember that Education is NOT restricted, only the government (assisting) paying for it through THIS specific program. The service member is skill able to pursue degrees, as well as PME (which may be one and the same).

Other arguments should be considered in the same vein.

Things to consider. Do we incentivize Education? One example would be rewarding promotion points for completing college credits, and are those points available before someone is in 12 months TIS? (The USMC does for LCpl to Cpl.) We have alternatives but something to keep in mind when you ask a young troop "Have you done everything you can to get promoted?" and they say "The XXXX won't let me take college so I'm stalled."

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2016 6:19 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 18:19:00 -0400

No. TA is something that you earn, and you have not earned it until you fulfill one year in service. Your first year in the military should be spent mastering your MOS and other military skills.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Apr 3 at 2016 6:44 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 18:44:50 -0400

No. Definitely not. 1 yr requirement should stay in place. Otherwise too much risk of waste and abuse.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2016 6:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 18:54:52 -0400

I don't think it should be lifted. That first year in a soldier should focus on their MOS and being the best soldier they can be. Plus, that year is almost a trial year for soldiers to see if the Army is for them. Our work schedules in general make it difficult-not impossible- to complete a degree. The small amount of TA alone doesn't cover much either which lengthens the amount of time it takes you to obtain a degree. I've been taking courses for 2 years on and off because after taking 3 classes my TA runs out.

Response by SFC Randy Purham made Apr 3 at 2016 7:11 PM

SFC Randy Purham — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 19:11:30 -0400

Everyone that says that - NO - the Soldier needs to focus on their MOS and being proficient. I propose this: Not every soldier coming out of AIT land goes to a unit specific to their MOS. Some may not even go to a MTOE unit where training in weapons, etc. is done (TRADOC). Soldier(s) gets sucked up into the system - left in that CBRN cage, the back of the motorpool, or even in the warehouse for 2-3 years, comes out of there as a Specialist/Sergeant, goes to another unit and now are in charge of soldiers, but does not have the proficiency in English, math, and writing/typing that they would have possibly gotten if they took advantage of college in that first year. Now its time for them to write NCOERs, Awards, and God forbid counselings and they don't even possess the basic sentence structuring skills, or the ability to do averages to determine their squad's PT average.

So the metrics we are trying to apply to a Soldier that they haven't earned it or are entitled to it yet, or even the fact they may not be around after the 1st year. All of which is possible, but what will make them that more qualified or entitled in their 2nd year if the first year's metrics that were applied wasn't achieved?

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2016 7:13 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 19:13:07 -0400

Most humans are creatures of habit. Delaying the start of school for a year allows habits to be developed that may well prevent success when one tries to return to school.

I completed 9 sem. hors. of college in my first year of service.

I am glad they didn't have this rule then.

Response by CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols made Apr 3 at 2016 7:24 PM

CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 19:24:35 -0400

The Military is not a job while going to college. It is an all-in job with an opportunity to attend college as the needs of the service dictate. I attained 2 degrees while on shore duty during my 20 straight and out gate. Let me very clear that the Service comes first. I advanced quickly and rewarded with promotion to PO3 in just a few months. There is no time for college until you know what you are doing.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2016 7:31 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 19:31:30 -0400

I read a lot of negatives and comments that the soldier needs to learn his/her skill. Well, I fulfilled the requirements to advance to the next level(s) of my skill as well as completing school. I never took any time away from the job to for school related activities.

I guess the commentators here would have rather I spent my free time partying rather than seeking to improve myself.

Certainly if the member is not performing his/her duties then a restriction might have merit. But, if the member is fulfilling his/her military obligations I think the restriction is rather self serving and unfair to the member.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Apr 3 at 2016 7:39 PM

Maj Marty Hogan — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 19:39:00 -0400

Your first year is set in learning from BMT to learning your job. I would actually have to leave this at a situational decision. Some could do it some not so much. Just feel that first year should be set earning your boots so to speak.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Apr 3 at 2016 9:14 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:14:32 -0400

From my perspective as a Recruiting Operations Officer for an Army ROTC program, I would like to see this lifted. This causes disadvantages to Soldiers that are in the USAR compared to those in the National Guard since they get TA from the state immediately after AIT. States vary but talking to representatives from several states, there is a very similar program across the Guard. This hurts retention when they see someone doing pretty much the same job getting several thousand more dollars before they are even eligible to draw FED TA. This also hurts the future officer corps for the USAR.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2016 10:06 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:06:50 -0400

I beleive that one-year to get through all your training, and learn your craft is reasonable before we start adding "more to the plate". (I know I will sound like Grandpa now); when I used my TA when enlisted, it was only 75%; I think me paying for books and the remaining 25% really helped me to focus on my studies.

In my "ideal world", servicemembers would be working on MOS proficiency/correspondence courses in their "off time" until they obtain a baseline of proficiency (which a year may or may not get) and then we open the aperture to broadening education.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Apr 3 at 2016 11:23 PM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:23:37 -0400

I believe the one year requirement should be lifted as you shouldn't hold back motivated Soldiers. Return TA to being a commanders program and the commander can deny if they are worried or if a Soldier is flagged cut it off. I also believe the 10 year rule for those having earned a degree thru TA should be reduced to 5. The only reason to make them wait until 10 is to trap them into being career Soldiers and it isn't right.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Apr 3 at 2016 11:44 PM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:44:33 -0400

I'd like it to be lifted; I'm a huge supporter of education. however, this is really a budget issue and spending limitations to sustain the program. At a time when DOD being a handed a shoestring budget, this isn't the worst cost cutting maneuver. We have other priorities and much of the first year is military training anyway for many SM. Fortunate to still have TA at all.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2016 12:37 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 00:37:04 -0400

I do not know why the one year rule was imposed. Old knowledge was that SM paid for 12 months, can they terminate payments during the 12 months? Logic and good sense would allow Company Commander to be approving authority to waive one year rule. If he/she cdr, waived rule (recognizing SM could attend school without conflict with mission requirements) chain of command would facilitate SM's attendance and success. Young/New SM should recognize chain of command working with them for success. Where am I wrong?

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 4 at 2016 6:05 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 06:05:15 -0400

Duty First! Well said SGM Quick.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2016 7:40 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 07:40:13 -0400

In general I believe it's a good system, however some MOSs like 35P have to wait until 3 years TIS before they're eligible for those benefits. AF allows waivers for that but I'm not sure of Army does. That could be a potential change.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 4 at 2016 11:55 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 11:55:23 -0400

Yes. It should be 4 years....

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Apr 4 at 2016 2:36 PM

SSG Ed Mikus — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 14:36:47 -0400

That should be left up to the local command

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Apr 4 at 2016 2:37 PM

SrA Matthew Knight — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 14:37:32 -0400

I guess I have never known that there was a time requirement for TA, maybe it's just the Army (or at least it's not the AF) however I don't think one year is that bad. Sure it will put you a little behind school wise but in many cases that first year is training, Basic Training, Job/Technical/MOS school, and then on the job training to make sure you really are ready for your tasks. That first year is needed to focus on that training and acclimating new service members to their military lives.

I will add though that supervision should make sure that new troops are aware of TA and know the process to get it started before hand so making sure your people know how to take advantage of it ahead of time is a good idea. I heard about TA but was never briefed by my supervisor at my last base on how to actually apply for and use it.

Response by Sgt John Steinmeier made Apr 5 at 2016 12:14 PM

Sgt John Steinmeier — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 12:14:22 -0400

No. They need to focus on their current new job and lifestyle.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 12:26 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 12:26:24 -0400

I am retired now but I wish this would have been the policy when I was in. The first year in service there is so much to learn about your actual MOS that you should be focusing on. I met too many boots that as soon as they got to their first unit wanted to start going to college and ended up not paying as much attention to their duties as they should have.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 12:33 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 12:33:01 -0400

There is nothing wrong with this requirement. You are basically rewarding someone who has not done the time if you take away these requirements. That first year is critical to a Soldier's development. Many are adjusting to something new and possibly scary. Its a complete change of lifestyle. Throwing school on top of that would be overkill. It would stunt their development as their primary job and add further stress. 12 months is fine. Soldier first. Scholar second, after they learn to be Soldiers.

Response by SrA Chris "Shadow" McGee made Aug 22 at 2016 1:50 PM

SrA Chris "Shadow" McGee — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:50:02 -0400

No, a new recruits first job is to know his role. I spent my first year and a half after basic and tech school getting my 5 level for my AFSC. Once a recruit is at an acceptable level for their rank they should then be able to consider outside school, not before.

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Aug 22 at 2016 5:53 PM

SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:53:14 -0400

Service requirement is a way of paying. We do not want to give freebees, military earns their benefits. One year service requirement is not too much to ask.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Aug 22 at 2016 11:12 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:12:15 -0400

SFC Randy Purham 'Sure, I will enlist, how soon can I get schooling?' Does that represent a lack of motivation or a different motive for enlisting?