Do you think that Unions belong in Government Agencies like the VA?

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:05:53 -0400

I'm sure that I'll get a lot of flack here but what are your thoughts about Unions in Government Agencies? Hell, all these bastards want is your money, dues, from it's members. I personally think that Unions hinder these Agencies from properly doing their job. Something is wrong here if the VA and any other Government Agency can't properly operate because the Administrators are worried, afraid about what the Union might do or say if an employee doesn't agree with what he/she is told to do by a supervisor. Can you imagine what would happen if the Military had a Union? They wouldn't be any more Orders because some asshole would file a grievance . WTF-Over! Yes, Unions are needed and do well in many civilian workplaces but do they really belong in Government? Where the hell is the "common Sense?"

COL Jon Thompson, COL Mikel Burroughs, SSgt L Ol, SGT Jim Zajc, SGT Keith Bodine, CW5 Scott Montgomery, Capt Christian D. Orr, SGM Dan Coberly, TSgt Hunter Logan, SGT Robert Hawks, SGT Forrest Stewart, SPC Rickey Cook, SPC Margaret Higgins, PV2 Lisa Wilcox,
LTC Stephen Curlee

Response by 1SG Joseph Yorski, MHS made Oct 29 at 2015 9:08 PM

1SG Joseph Yorski, MHS — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:08:10 -0400

Absolutely not. Public service, not personal enrichment. Get them OUT.

Response by BG David Fleming III made Oct 29 at 2015 9:36 PM

BG David Fleming III — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:36:16 -0400

I'm pro-union for the most part. They've done some good work over the course of their existence.
However, in recent years they have failed to compromise when needed at the expense of the tax paying public. This is not acceptable and should be frowned upon. So no I don't think in the current climate it's beneficial having any unions in government agencies.
I reserve my right to change my oppinion when conditions improve.

Response by LTC Marc King made Oct 29 at 2015 9:39 PM

LTC Marc King — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:39:06 -0400

NO!

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Oct 29 at 2015 9:42 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 21:42:34 -0400

No... they make it too hard to get rid of lazy employees

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2015 11:20 PM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 23:20:05 -0400

A union would only make a shitty situation worse.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Oct 30 at 2015 12:09 AM

Capt Mark Strobl — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 00:09:15 -0400

Hell, I'm still pissed over a grievance filed against me back in '93. Apparently, I was threatening some gold-bricking electrician's job because I changed a light bulb. In reference to the VA... Let's see... Slower service (is that possible?) with an elevated cost for said service. Naw, I really am not on-board with introducing unions to the VA model.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Oct 30 at 2015 1:51 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 01:51:42 -0400

Had to deal with unions for years. There's a limited set of things that can be negotiated on the Federal employee side. Once you have a CBA, then it's in the eye of the beholder if the union is worthwhile or not. My general frustration with the unions as a senior manager is there's stuff they can really do to help the employee base overall and with a strong partnership with management, improve the working conditions and morale. Unfortunately that is typically not on the union agenda. First and foremost, the primary job of the union is to perpetuate the union. Second is to appear they own or have more influence than they actually have, hence the chest pounding. Third is to selectively support those employees that they think can make the union look better. So if the first three priorities are not to serve the employees, there's the problem.

So overall my impression is the unions I've had to deal with put a lot of drag on the system at the expense of the taxpayer. Unions are allowed by law and I'm OK with that. I just wish they'd actually be of service to the Nation's employees.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Oct 30 at 2015 2:10 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 02:10:51 -0400

Unions in government agencies are inherently corrupt; management and unions both profit from increasing wages and benefits, but the tax payer whose money is being handed out does not have a seat at the table. It is like two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 30 at 2015 7:11 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 07:11:28 -0400

They are a direct product of Elected Politicians not being trustworthy.

Under the Pre-Union days, when Politicians were elected they would "clean house" and effectively shut down the government giving key positions to campaign supporters. Unions are a product of necessity. Yes, they may have gone too far in that they protect both the bad and good employees, but we can't have SME bureaucrats being fired at whim to be replaced by less qualified flunkies every 2 years either.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Oct 30 at 2015 7:32 AM

1LT Aaron Barr — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 07:32:20 -0400

Government unions should never have been permitted and ought to be banned. In principle, there's a prima fascia conflict of interest; both sides of the table are government employees working for the taxpayer who isn't properly represented. In practice, government unions have made government even more inefficient while becoming little more than a means by which the Democrat party launders taxpayer money back into their own campaign coffers.

Full disclosure; I'm a VA employee and NOT a member of the union.

Response by SGT David T. made Oct 30 at 2015 8:28 AM

SGT David T. — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 08:28:05 -0400

Honestly in the Federal arena, our unions really aren't the problem because they are VERY limited on what they can negotiate. Most of the time they negotiate stuff that really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme. Our benefits and pay are mandated by Federal law and the union has no power to negotiate with management on that. Membership in the union is not forced and they do have to provide some level of representation to employees with management disputes. As far as manager being afraid of the unions I have not seen this at all. Frustration with and annoyance at but never fear. I cannot speak to state or local level unions as I am not familiar with how they operate. If a union formed in the military it would most likely be as toothless as the Federal civilian unions so I wouldn't see much being impacted by one.

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Oct 30 at 2015 8:33 AM

Sgt Spencer Sikder — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 08:33:58 -0400

There was a time when unions were necessary in the federal government. However I believe that time as long passed. Given there are other avenues of appeals for misconduct of management, i.e. EEOC, FLRA, OSC, etc. I have found some union representatives aren't so much concerned with the union member as much as they are concerned for getting sued for not doing their due diligence on a grievance by that same member. In VA, there are employees who make over $70,000 a year and never spend a day doing what they were hired. Full time union business. Rolling in late, leaving early not a problem. BTW, I was a dues paying member of several unions, not one of those federal employees who gets the protection whether or not they pay dues.

Response by CPT Yul Eblamo made Oct 30 at 2015 9:23 AM

CPT Yul Eblamo — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 09:23:06 -0400

Honestly I love the idea of what the union is supposed to do. The only problem is that the union is abused by non dues paying bad employees who know they are bad employees and play victim when management tells them that they are non performers. Those kind of employees make me so sick because they hide behind a wall of people who do their jobs correctly and who are genuinely only in the Union to be protected from real abuse from management. I wish that the Union held tribunals for bad employees to see if they even warrant help before going to the management.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Oct 30 at 2015 9:36 AM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 09:36:21 -0400

Unions and Government... Definitely not a good pairing...

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2015 9:40 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 09:40:08 -0400

Even the fabian socialist FDR rejected the idea of public unions.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=15445

Franklin D. Roosevelt: Letter on the Resolution of Federation of Federal Employees Against...

The American Presidency Project contains the most comprehensive collection of resources pertaining to the study of the President of the United States. Compiled by John Woolley and Gerhard Peters

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Oct 31 at 2015 11:42 AM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Sat, 31 Oct 2015 11:42:32 -0400

Public sector unions should not exist. Regardless of one's stance on unions in general, there are two issues:
1. They already fall under civil service regs (which are damn good, compared to "real world"). You should not have both civil service AND union.
2. 97.3% of the time (number made up!), the union-management relationship is hostile by design - conflicting interests. In the case of the public sector, the interests should align - best service to the public.

Response by LTC Christopher Sands made Nov 1 at 2015 11:57 AM

LTC Christopher Sands — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 11:57:51 -0500

NO!!