Do you think that the COC will not take a recommendation seriously if an E-4 recommends somebody?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 16:58:33 -0400

As a Specialist most members of the E-4 Mafia are not often recognized for their achievements. But as far as recommendations go, do you think that the COC will not take a recommendation seriously if an E-4 recommends somebody? I recently recommended an O-4 for the Meritorious Service Medal. What are your thoughts?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 5:08 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:08:54 -0400

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, in theory anyone can recommend anyone for any award.
Having said that, it would be difficult to believe that a SPC was in a position to observe and record performance of an O-4 that rises to that level.
If you did (not saying you didn't), I would recommend having a conversation through your CoC to an appropriate level for this recognition. It may be an oversight and his recommendation was "misplaced". It may be that something happened that you are not privy to that caused the Major to not be recommended.

Go for it, but make sure your CoC is informed.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Mar 23 at 2015 6:09 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 18:09:52 -0400

I agree with 1SG Private RallyPoint Member, that it may be difficult to convince your COC that you have the appropriate level of knowledge and scope of observation to really know if someone is deserving of a MSM. An Army Achievement would be much easier to reasonably recommend. That said, recommending a superior for an award outside of valor or heroism is rare.

If you think your COC is up to taking the recommendation and you are 100% sure you have the scope of knowledge to recommend it! give it a go. The worst they can do is say no.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 23 at 2015 6:47 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 18:47:28 -0400

Every unit and Chain of Command is different SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, different in their experiences, their values and their beliefs. Everyone will see the efforts and performance of others differently based on their own experiences and will approve or disapprove the awards recommendations.

The Chain of Command that trains with their units and shares hardships will see and understand their Soldiers grow and mature. Part of the growing process is to ensure everyone knows how to complete their administrative duties which includes the knowledge of how to complete a recommendation for an award. During a major joint multi-national training exercise we (the commander & I) encouraged our Soldiers, NCOs and Officers to complete the award recommendation by handwriting the form thus making it a quicker to get the award to the deserving Soldier. This included a SPC (E-4) that wrote a PFC (E-3) an award, that was approved and awarded on site, before we finished the training exercise.

Anybody that has knowledge of the act can make the recommendation.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Mar 23 at 2015 6:58 PM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 18:58:45 -0400

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member I applaud your efforts to recommend an O-4. That speaks in volume. It is uncommon, but durable for an E-4 to recommend a Superior for a MSM. You are a Junior NCO and that's doing what leaders do. Don't let no one tell you otherwise. Go to
http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_8_22.pdf

and to page 44, there is no rank criteria. Good Luck

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 9:35 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:35:54 -0400

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, you have the thoughtful opinions of four senior NCOs, so I will be the first officer to respond.

Consider the approval authority. General officers retain the approval authority for the MSM. The overwhelming majority of MSM recommendations are going to come from probably E-7 / O-3 and above, at least in the Army. I am not saying that your recommendation will be summarily discarded, but you are in the severe minority and you draw attention to yourself by making this recommendation.

Next, consider the Major's supervisor. Of course AR 600-8-22 is not going to discuss Army culture, but that does not mean there isn't a social aspect to this. If you were a squad leader, and someone started writing awards for your subordinates, do you think that would make you look like you fail to recognize their accomplishments? Here is a far-fetched hypothetical: if you think GEN Odierno does a good job, are you going to recommend him for the Army DSM?

Finally, you have an established pattern of ... rocking the boat. Maybe you're a 10-year Specialist and you've got this whole Army thing figured out. I'm willing to guess you don't. I would like to see you take the proverbial chill pill. Learn the institution you serve, learn the culture, and make change where it's important and where you can.

None of this is to say that an E-4 can never recommend an O-4 for an award. Sometimes supervisors need to be spurred on to do their jobs, but on average, action like yours probably seems presumptuous.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 9:43 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:43:36 -0400

SPC Cody Voye. The better job you do the better chance it will be taken seriously.

BTW I was born in Johnstown.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 23 at 2015 9:43 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:43:52 -0400

What exactly were you going to recommend him for? Make sure you have an understanding of what the MSM is awarded for. As a SPC it is hard to see how you could be in a position to recommend that award for a MAJ.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Mar 23 at 2015 9:48 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:48:09 -0400

I saw an E-2 put in a E-3 for an award and it got approved. Why not. Deserving is deserving. Good job.

Response by SSG Rob Cline made Mar 24 at 2015 9:27 AM

SSG Rob Cline — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 09:27:50 -0400

Good luck in your recommendation, but be prepared for it to be denied. It's not that you won't provide good information and examples as to why the Major deserved the award, it's the stigma that a Specialist doesn't know all the information. It's quite common for senior leaders (Officers and NCOs) to have a skeptical eye when awards come into play.

If anything, provide your list of details to the Major's supervisor so that he can inject them into the -638 and solidify the recommendation. This way, even though you didn't 'write' the award, your insight and observations contributed to the approval.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 13 at 2015 8:30 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 08:30:07 -0400

Why can't you give him a coin? Coins are easy money.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2015 9:01 AM

MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:01:12 -0400

As many have said, you can recommend anyone for anything. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't just throw together an award packet, especially for an MSM, and just send it up though. Put together the initial award packet and then walk it over to the PAC and ask an experienced 42A what issues they would see about it. They will help you make sure that the packet is put together correctly and be able to tell you if the award would be likely to get approved based on their past experience.

After you've got that all together, get an office call with the rater of the MAJ you want to recommend. If your gutsy enough to write an award for him, you've gotta be gutsy enough to get on an LTC's calendar. When you get your chance to speak to the LTC, explain to them why you feel the MAJ deserves the award and that you would be honored to submit it because of the vast respect you have for the MAJ. You also happen to have a 95% solution to the awards packet put together. This helps in two ways. First, you don't put the LTC in the position of looking like a jerk who doesn't appreciate his folks and instead junior enlisted Soldiers have to show appreciation for his folks. Your just saying that you respect this MAJ so much, that you want to help take this off the LTC's plate. Secondly, it shows to this MAJ's chain of command that this isn't some sort of joke. The LTC probably isn't going to give you any insight into whether they feel the MAJ deserves an MSM or not. However, I think if you prep the environment in this way, the award will at least get taken seriously and you won't come out looking like a complete yahoo for rocking the boat. Just a thought.