Do you think Soldiers getting chaptered should receive separation pay?

SGT Jordan Frizzell — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 12:14:39 -0500

It seems like a Soldier getting chaptered is getting a reward for getting kicked out....your thoughts GO!!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2014 12:16 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 12:16:30 -0500

I would say yes only to get them as far away from the base as we can.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jan 12 at 2014 12:27 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 12:27:05 -0500

SGT Frizzell,

Could you be more specific? Are you referring to those not meeting certain standards, those being separated for reductions in force, or something else?

Response by SFC James Baber made Jan 12 at 2014 12:32 PM

SFC James Baber — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 12:32:19 -0500

Escorted off post with their final paycheck due and given a copy of the letter barring them from post, I believe all chapters with the exception of hardship or family care plan, all others warrant this type of restrictions, because they are usually general or OTH.

Response by SPC Ronald Whiting made Jan 12 at 2014 2:35 PM

SPC Ronald Whiting — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 14:35:51 -0500

Everything should be based off the type of discharge and the character of the SM's military career. Not all SM's get separated for disciplinary reasons. So to compensated them I would say Yes. Because some SM's get separated for a lost of security clearances that could be taken care of while they are still in the Service. So let me ask this simply throwing the SM out the military without some kind of compensation would be wrong. They served our country and put there lives on the line, for us to just toss them out like garbage. That shows to me that we never care about them or there families.

Response by 1SG Roberto Peralta-Vazquez made Jan 12 at 2014 2:58 PM

1SG Roberto Peralta-Vazquez — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 14:58:09 -0500

I agree to give them separation pay !!! But soldiers being chapters for disciplinary actions, Hell no. Then drive then 25 miles away from the military base. They are like roaches and try to come back and do damage to the base.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2014 3:20 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 15:20:46 -0500

My remarks are for those who are being separated for DISCIPLINE issues.<div><br></div><div>I had a Soldier (if he could ever have been called a Soldier) get chaptered.  In the year he was mine he was convicted by court martial of: 1) theft of personal property 2) theft of government property 3) disrespect to a NCO (gave me the finger during formation, at least he was ballsey) and 4) solicitation of narcotics.  Before he PCSed to my unit he already had three article 15s.<div><br></div><div>Upon separation he was paid 60 days unused leave (was allowed to use the other 15 as leave), forgiveness of $2,000+ AER loan (cited family hardship as his reason), shipped a vehicle and household goods from Germany at government expense and given three government paid plane tickets back to the US.  He did not receive any transition benefits.</div><div><br></div><div>In my opinion if you EARN anything less than an HONORABLE you deserve NOTHING.  You deserve to feel the full weight of your actions.</div></div>

Response by SFC Clark Adams made Jan 12 at 2014 3:33 PM

SFC Clark Adams — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 15:33:17 -0500

How long have they served and under which "Chapter" they are being separated?

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2014 9:43 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 21:43:53 -0500

I always feel like circumstances should be taken into account for each case. A separation based on discipline should in most all cases receive nothing. A soldier who may have busted tape two many times... well he shouldn't treated like a criminal.

Response by MAJ Derrick J. made Jan 13 at 2014 12:13 AM

MAJ Derrick J. — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 00:13:58 -0500

Why is this even a question (a rhetorical statement) - rewarding people for punitive separations is NEVER a good thing, let alone the "right thing."

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Jan 13 at 2014 2:43 PM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:43:13 -0500

Anything in the less than honorable category should not get a cent. If they spent any time in confinement, that should be a penalty upon their leave. Of course things like bonuses, etc need to be paid back or a lien put on their future income taxes. In those rare cases when a discharge status is challenged & changed after separation, they should get the money for an honorable. I knew someone booted out under less than honorable with them having a medical condition. The command & the medical people screwed her up even more. She got out & got proper treatment at her good local VA & then talked to her Congressman. 2 years after getting a bad conduct discharge, it was made a medical retirement & all kinds of backpay. I know that was a rare event.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Jan 13 at 2014 2:54 PM

SPC Christopher Smith — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 14:54:44 -0500

Let us not forget as SMs we are under contract, and both sides are held to the agreements of that contract. I you have a four year deal, and both sides agree. The side that breaks the contract early would have to pay the remaining balance whatever it might be. Since most chapters are not the person stating that they quit, they never break the contract. I'm not saying it is a great system, but it is what it is.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2014 4:05 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 16:05:00 -0500

Not at all. Look a chapter I thought was a bad thing. If this is the case then at 10 and 15 years of service if I choose to get out I should be able to receive retirement.

Response by CW2 Geoff Lachance made Jan 13 at 2014 10:23 PM

CW2 Geoff Lachance — Mon, 13 Jan 2014 22:23:35 -0500

Any Soldier who is unable to adjust to military life or dealing with personal hardships should receive the pay due at the time of separation including earned leave.

Soldiers who are considered undesirable or found guilty of criminal offenses deserves absolutely nothing!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2014 2:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:37:45 -0500

Questions like this are legit conundrums and often lead to wrong impressions. I'm pretty sure we all could agree that every single soldier being chaptered for any reason that is beyond their control....ie, medical, injury, etc.. should get nothing and be sent packing. However, the catch to it is that everyone here has some E grade to their name and is nowhere near the policy making side of the house, but rather, policy enforcers. The powers that be are the ones who categorize discharges. Someone who gets paid more and has more govt issued authority makes those decisions and they are often NOT in line with the views of the NCO processing the chapter. The fair and correct answer is that we would grant the soldier, regardless of our own views, full rights to whatever he/she is entitled based on the discharge they are given and hope that our senior leaders on both sides of the house address the problem accordingly. Until the time comes when the O grades stop giving soldiers every single benefit of the doubt and hold them liable for their actions, we will never truely be satisfied with any rights granted under the regulations. This is also the case for the upper echelons of command who violate every legitimate Value and then get full pensions and benefits. Soldiers and Officers alike face this issue and it's just bogus that it happens.

In my opinion, if the senior leaders would get held to the fire with extreme adjudication, we would see less and less soldiers at our level slide through the system. No way a COL or X Star General can run a prostitution ring through the SHARP circles and be paid full entitlements and we quip about giving a soldier some separation pay and a plane ticket.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 17 at 2018 9:33 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 17 Apr 2018 09:33:39 -0400

I thought it was on a case by case basis- there is a difference between failing to train/conform and being injured while training.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2024 7:02 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Feb 2024 19:02:22 -0500

Separation pay is correctly linked to the characterization of service and the type of separation. At the end of the day, this is still a job and we are protected by various employment laws that prevents the federal government from just dumping us off with nothing to feed ourselves with until we recover.

Take, for instance, a soldier who has never gotten in trouble, who performs his function well, but busts tape. He fails the ABCP and is now getting chaptered. He is not a horrible guy, he just likes food a little too much. He gets half separation pay when he leaves as part of a severance package (if you will).

Now take a SSG who fooled around and found out, he got caught fornicating with a soldier directly beneath him and now he's got an Article 15 and a reduction in grade. He gets docked to SGT, but he's been in the Army 13 years. He is past his RCP now with the reduction, and he is gettin separated. Because of the recent Article 15, his characterization of service will be less than honorable and he will no longer be qualified for separation pay.

Now take a soldier in my position. I am currently a SPC non-P with 7.5 years in. I got reduced from 5 to 4 because I never went to BLC after promotion W/O BLC in Afghanistan, and that is for several reasons. Because of my reduction, and my current inability to regain my former rank, I am now facing an involuntary separation based on my current retention control point, but I am also potentially able to get the full separation pay. I have no negative history in the army, so my characterization of service will be Honorable.

In situations like mine, the separation pay is valid. I am not certain if this counts as a chapter separation, but I'll defend that in my circumstance, I surely deserve some kind of payment to help me land on my feet given these circumstances were beyond my control, it is like getting laid-off from my job.

Overall, I think that it does depend upon the type of separation and the characterization of service. If a dirt bag is getting out because he has proven himself not only an unfit soldier but an unfit human, then sure, do not reward that behavior with separation pay. But if a soldier's only crime was he picked up a drinking habit after a combat deployment and consequently got too fat but is otherwise a good guy, then I think some nuance is warranted before defacating in this guy's cereal.

Also I just wanna say, I think this is wild that this question was posted 10 years ago and yet it still pops up! This is a sign of a good question!