Do you think SGB is an effective treatment of PTSD?

2019-06-16T19:31:08-04:00

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sgb-a-possible-breakthrough-treatment-for-ptsd-60-minutes-2019-06-16/

Just watched 60 minutes about a new procedure called stellate ganglion block, or SGB. The Army's clinical trial is currently under peer review.

SGB: A possible breakthrough treatment for PTSD

A simple shot in the neck could put PTSD sufferers on the path to recovery

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2019 7:35 PM

2019-06-16T19:35:35-04:00

One can only hope it is an effective treatment, but I am extremely skeptical of any treatment that alters brain chemistry. Sometimes such treatments cause more problems than the condition they are treating.

Response by CPT Dahn Shaulis made Jun 16 at 2019 7:43 PM

2019-06-16T19:43:49-04:00

It sounds good, but lots of things sound good in the experimental phase. Hope it is helpful, along with other therapies. Wish too we would do more to prevent the deeper origins for much of this: man's inhumanity to man.

Response by CSM Carl Cunningham made Jun 16 at 2019 8:46 PM

2019-06-16T20:46:37-04:00

I'm going to say yes. This doctor that came up with it spent years as a doctor in the special operations community. I have a few friends that told me about this before the 60 minutes segment. They said that the treatment works well for the right PTSD patient. I trust these guys that told me about it. Now, what I did hear is that it can make you really relaxed, which is why it won't be for everyone. It is for the PTSD cases where guys can't "turn themselves off" after a deployment, event, etc. Some guys have tried this and it made them relaxed to the point where they became relaxed enough to not pay attention to their surroundings.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2019 11:02 AM

2019-06-17T11:02:21-04:00

I have read extensive research and it is promising in many ways and also can make it possible for someone to obtain therapy after this procedure that makes them more receptive to what adjustments there are and the benefits. The initial studies have been great but the industry has a long history of pushing potential without sufficient historical data. There is also that key phrase "no apparent side effects..." in the short term maybe not but they have no long term data to back that up. It is a step in the right direction that will hopefully be very successful.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 17 at 2019 11:02 AM

2019-06-17T11:02:43-04:00

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3196975/

This is the original US paper, so far as I know, by Eugene Lipov, MD, in Chicago, an anesthesiologist doing pain management, so far as I know, his was the research, derived from a European Scandinavian country, through I think their military, on the technique, there's nothing new to it except where it's applied, when I was a doctoral allied health resident at a VA hospital, I was taught to do it for sciatica by one of my attendings, the only difference here is to apply a local anesthetic mix of lidocaine and/or marcaine, I bekieve, to the stellar ganglion, to decrease pain soasm, likely of candidate origin, possibly, or at least related, causing a flattening of affect and mood, described as chasing psychological flashback imagery in color to black and white, or so paraohrased, I've researched it quite extensively, the technique is essentially the same, though the area of application was of course novel, there's another recent thread on here where I discuss the whole thing relative to a device called the Calmare.nociceptive pain scrambler, as well.as.the festival aspect, in considerably more depth...I really was trained to do it at for peripheral nerve pain at a VA hospital yrs ago long before SGB was looked into for PTSD, just as I'd said, honest....

Successful Use of Stellate Ganglion Block and Pulsed Radiofrequency in the Treatment of...

Objective. To report our successful treatment of acute symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). By the use of stellate ganglion block (SGB) and pulsed radiofrequency (PRF) to the stellate ganglion(SG) , sequentially. Background. A 48-year-old ...

Response by Maj Robert Thornton made Jun 17 at 2019 12:19 PM

2019-06-17T12:19:14-04:00

My basic question, after reading some of the studies has to do with the long term efficacy. I have read a number of thestusies, but I find them vague on the long term relief. One reason was loss of long term contact which impacts the results.

Response by 1st Lt Padre Dave Poedel made Jun 17 at 2019 3:33 PM

2019-06-17T15:33:54-04:00

I am intrigued by it. I asked my pain management doc if I could schedule him to do one on me....but he put me off until I get some blood work done. I pray it is effective; as I am interested in trying it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2019 9:18 PM

2019-06-17T21:18:10-04:00

I am mostly opposed to injections.

I am of the opinion that the micro-muscles in the spine that hold the nerves intact and send information to the brain should be re-trained after service. This implies that the vertebrate in the spine should be aligned also. Misaligned vertebrate crush nerve endings and create dysfunction throughout the body and prevent individuals from experiencing health and well-being. Once the vertebrate are aligned, the micro-muscles are re-trained and hold the nerves consistently in place, and the major muscles hold the vertebrate, micro-muscles and nerves together, an individual is likely on the road to returning to health and well-being. Remember though, this is a long term process that usually takes years.

Additionally, I tend to support the argument that symptoms of illness resulting from a misaligned spine over lap with the symptoms from PTSD. I do not argue that all symptoms from a misaligned spine are the same as all symptoms associated with PTSD. I simply contend that the symptoms from a misaligned spine might be similar to the symptoms associated with PTSD. This overlap should be investigated by western medicine health care professionals and holistic medicine professionals such as chiropractors, massage therapists, acupuncturists and clinical psychologists. Teams of health care professionals and holistic medicine professionals working together to address the overlap of symptoms associated with PTSD and illness associated with a misaligned spine might be in a better position to diagnose mental illness within the totality of a veterans experience in combat. Each veteran's experiences are different.

Historically, the American Medical Association and the Chiropractors in the United States have an enduring feud that goes back over 100 years. Progress has been made in the last 50 years or so, but AMA's monopolistic hold on medical ethics and the founding chiropractor's (David Palmer) initial rejection of germ theory set back medical relations until the 1960's. The Medical industry started to change in the 1960's. Chiropractors accepted germ theory. Several chiropractors sued the AMA for monopolistic practices that were destroying the chiropractic profession in the Supreme court in the 1970's and won. See Wilkes v AMA.

Re-training the micro-muscles might help re-train the mental paradigm after a veteran leaves active service. The paradigm should change from "high speed, low drag" to pain management over the long term.

Response by SSgt Richard Kensinger made Jun 23 at 2019 5:19 PM

2019-06-23T17:19:06-04:00

I am a retired clinical psychologist and professor. I conduct research on combat trauma dating as far back as the Korean Conflict. Combatants endure doses of combat trauma on each excursion even if not attacked each time. They are exposed to consecutive periods of death and destruction. The above neural procedure is more specifically targeted to key regions of the brain as compared to psychotropic meds. Vets tell me that individual therapy over time w/ a competent clinician is helpful. The more efficacious clinical intervention is ongoing group therapy which recapitulates the primary psychosocial unit: the squad.
Rich

Response by 1st Lt Padre Dave Poedel made Jun 25 at 2019 10:35 AM

2019-06-25T10:35:11-04:00

This procedure is new to me. I saw the 60 Minutes segment and am very interested. I see a Pain Management Specialist every month for my Rx and things like radio frequency ablations and facet injections. I plan to bring this up with him, as my PTSD is pre-military service. While I trust in God, who I serve with joy, and I also know that He created medicine for our good...I think there may be a thesis in that one...so I am very open to receiving medical treatment with the same thanksgiving I receive God’s grace and mercy.

Response by Col Jincy Hayes made Jun 25 at 2019 10:45 AM

2019-06-25T10:45:13-04:00

I am very hopeful that this makes a difference!

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Jun 26 at 2019 9:18 PM

2019-06-26T21:18:28-04:00

As so often happens with drugs, this will not work the same for everyone.

Response by Jesse Hatgis made Jul 24 at 2019 1:33 AM

2019-07-24T01:33:08-04:00

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