Do you think pullups is wise to add to the Army PT test? It's a genuine exercise in my opinion, the way ahead for future PT.

2014-07-29T22:40:32-04:00

In a recent Army Times Articel:

Soldiers across the Army say there’s a simple way to better measure an individual’s strength and prepare them for combat — add pullups to the PT test.

“They’re difficult to do, and it’s the kind of thing that can save your life — to be able to pull your own body weight,” said Sgt. Maj. Alfred Todd, a medical official with the California Army National Guard.

Sgt. First Class Daniel Lopez-Bonaglia, a Fort Hood soldier with 4th Sustainment Brigade, said pullups provide a better snapshot of overall fitness compared with the pushup.

“You can fake a pushup, but not a pullup, because your chin has to go to that bar,” said Lopez-Bonaglia, who deployed twice to Iraq. “If you’re overweight, there’s no way you’d be able to do a pullup.”

These soldiers are not alone in their views. Army Times recently asked readers to weigh in on what PT changes they wanted to see. The request received thousands of responses and many endorsed the idea of making pullups a part of the Army Physical Fitness Test.

The current APFT, required of soldiers twice annually, is meant to test their strength, endurance and cardiovascular fitness. Soldiers must complete pushups, situps and a 2-mile run, and receive a score from zero to 100 in each event. A minimum of 60 points for each is required to pass.
Training and Doctrine Command is spearheading a potential overhaul of the test as part of larger efforts toward a gender-neutral Army and more combat jobs for women.

Pullups are likely part of the discussion.
In the World War II and Korean War eras, pullups were part of Army physical fitness tests, according to Army physical fitness scholar Whitfield East’s book on the topic. The pullup was part of discussions to revise the test in the 1980s and in 2010. A requirement that the test be performed with minimal or no equipment was a likely factor in excluding the exercise.

Pullup supporters

William Brechue, director of the Center for Physical Development Excellence at West Point, called the pullup a “good exercise” and said he favors it over the pushup if forced to pick one for the PT test.

The two are complimentary exercises, and both are beneficial in training, he said. The pullup primarily uses the latimus dorsi, or upper back muscles, the rear deltoid to a lesser degree, and the chest and biceps. The pushup is the opposite exercise, primarily using the chest, with the arms, and upper back muscles for stability.

“If I’m climbing a rope or mesh, anything where I’m trying to pull my body up, I’ll be using those pullup muscles, but I’ll be using my pushup muscles as stabilizers,” Brechue said.As a measure of strength, the pullup is more demanding.

“When you’re doing a pullup you’re suspending your whole body weight, and when you do a pushup you only suspend 70 percent of your body weight, which means the pullup is much more strength oriented,” Brechue said.
Brechue acknowledged that women tend to have less upper body strength than men, but it doesn’t mean they cannot do pullups.

“There are plenty of female cadets here who can do 10 pullups,” he said. “If you train them, train them properly, stick with it and train the upper body musculature, you’ll find they’re going to be okay and gain the strength that needs to be gained.”

UFC fighter Sgt. 1st Class Tim Kennedy said that because pullups are part of the Ranger Physical Fitness
Test, the exercise has a certain cache. He favors including pullups in the APFT because the “the shape of the force should change.”
“It’s an athletic muscle movement,” Kennedy, who is in the Texas National Guard, told Army Times by phone, “and they’re supposed to be protecting our freedom and they can’t do one?”

Chief Warrant Officer 2 Jonathan Marsh, a Ranger-turned-Black Hawk pilot said pullups should be required, but only for soldiers in physically demanding jobs.
“Upper body strength is key in light infantry,” Marsh told Army Times by phone, “as far as maneuvering, climbing rocks and obstacles, and carrying battle buddies.”
Support personnel should not be required, he said.
Lopez-Bonaglia, on the other hand, endorsed separate requirements for men and women. Male soldiers would have to perform 10, he said, while women would only have to complete three.

Arlene Lucia, one of the many Facebook supporters for pullups, said the current test is just too easy and pullups would up the ante.
“I’ve never had an issue passing the APFT, and I’m a 44-year-old female soldier with 22 years of service,” she said.

Anti-pullups

Not everyone believes pullups are the right answer.
Lee Kind, an Army captain turned fitness guru, said pullups demonstrate upper body strength and are essential for air assault and parachute missions, carrying heavy gear, throwing grenades and gripping power. But he believes that for the Army, the pushup is superior
.
“The pullup is a great exercise, but it would be a terrible PT test event for the regular Army,” said Kind, author of “MAX Out the Army, Navy, Marine, and Air Force Physical Fitness and Combat Fitness Tests.”

Pullups are primarily a muscle-building exercise, he said, whereas pushups combine muscle building with muscular and cardiovascular endurance. Brute strength is important, but every soldier needs sustained endurance, he said.
He listed other drawbacks: Pushups can be performed almost anywhere and anytime while pullups can’t. People can get hurt slipping off the pullup bar or kicking their legs for extra reps, which can cause severe lower back injuries.
A woman’s physiology differs from men, making it more difficult for women to perform pullups, Kind said.

“If you added pullups, the Army would probably get down to less than 100,000 personnel,” a reader, Brandon Ward, said on Facebook.
Another commenter, Matthew McBride, said he did not see a need to change the test for everyone and suggested giving commanders more discretion.
“Let certain units tailor it to their needs; for example, let airborne units add pullups because those types of units need or value that skill,” he said. “We keep trying make a cookie cutter PT test when that isn’t the answer.”
Joe Christenson also suggested leaving well-enough alone.

“Keep pushups because you can do them anywhere and you need no props, no pullup bar,” he said.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140414/NEWS/304150032/The-push-pullups-Why-soldiers-want-added-PT-test

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Jul 30 at 2014 12:41 PM

2014-07-30T12:41:04-04:00

I do not disagree with adding pull-ups, but i do not believe the APFT is broken, the Weight program is broken, we should fix that and let the dust settle before modifying the APFT.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2014 1:11 PM

2014-07-30T13:11:03-04:00

The potential positives are essentially non-existent and the negatives are quite substantial. There is confusion, it seems, about the purpose of the APFT. The "F" stands for "fitness." We are trying to ensure a minimum level of fitness, not job qualification. If pull-ups are essential to airborne ops, make a separate airborne qualification test and add that to airborne units. That's just an example.

If we are going to weed people out based on something, I would put moral fiber and MOS qualification miles and miles ahead of ratcheting up the APFT standards. The things that went wrong in Iraq/Afghanistan had not one thing to do with APFT standards being too low. It's like the house is on fire and people want to complain that the lawn needs to be mowed. Even if we don't agree whether the lawn needs to be mowed, can we at least agree that if no one puts out the fire, that point won't matter? I hate to see more resources going into this issue.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2014 5:05 PM

2014-07-30T17:05:47-04:00

I don't know if pull ups are better than pushups, but honestly I rather do pull ups any day of the week

Response by CW3 Clayton C. made Jul 30 at 2014 11:29 PM

2014-07-30T23:29:29-04:00

Let's be honest for a second here. The Army is not going to change the APFT. Millions of dollars were dumped into a "new" PT test and a new PRT program came from it but still no new PT test. It won't happen, so my opinion that pull ups are a better way to test of upper body strength, is irrelevant. But it's also my opinion and shouldn't be misconstrued as an attempt to pass off as a fact.

PRT already includes Pull ups within climbing drills. It is absolutely a genuine exercise but so are mountain climbers. Should we also include mountain climbers in the PT test? What I'm getting at here is this, a good exercise is not enough of a reason to change a PT test that has been effective at measuring a minimum level of fitness.

Response by SPC Richard White made Jul 31 at 2014 3:30 AM

2014-07-31T03:30:32-04:00

I don't see why not back in my day we were required to do pull ups for high school physical fitness.Girls did the one arm hang.That was in Army JROTC

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2014 4:45 AM

2014-07-31T04:45:55-04:00

I understand that soldiers need to be physically fit, but doesn't adrenaline make even the most unfit person do crazy things? It was mentioned that pulling yourself up could save a your life. So I would think if I was in a situation, where it was life or death, my adrenaline would be kicking in, and I would have no problem doing what I needed to do! I'm not saying yes or no to pullups, just stating my thoughts on that one comment. We haven't had pullups in a PT test, and people have been able to save not only thier own lives, but lives as others.

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Jul 31 at 2014 7:21 AM

2014-07-31T07:21:56-04:00

I'd have to lose weight, but I'd rather have one or the other because by the time you are done with push-ups, your arms will be too sore to do pull-ups anyway. If you had both on one test, you would BOLO for sure!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2014 9:56 PM

2014-09-07T21:56:39-04:00

This is a repost of an earlier comment to a specfic response. I think it covers many responses I've read.
Here goes: The APFT (current or future) is not the problem. Many claim we need to add this event, do away with that event and many say we don't need to change it. Regardless of what the APFT events are (current or future), APFT results are not going to change unitl unit PT programs become serious, challenging programs. Soldiers who are scoring 280 and above are doing so NOT because of "unit PT". These Soldiers are doing so because they are working out on their own time. I see PT formations every morning form up around my work location. I see them stretch, do some exercises, to include push ups and sit ups of course for 15-20 minutes they are off for their run. Unit PT Programs (if you an call that a PT Program) are not imporving the fitness level of Soldiers.

If Soldiers are failing their PT tests it is not only their fault, the unit program is not demanding enough to bring these soldiers up to meeting the minimum standard and thats a leadership failure. However, only the Soldier is held accountable, he gets Flagged, no favorable actions, then put in a special PT program (away from unit PT), and is retested in 90/180 days (which ever it is now). Their leaders are quick to tell them, "you need to work out on your own time to get in shape!" Why is that, We don't expect them to parctice tank gunnery crew drills on their own time for Tank Gunnery.

The problem is not the APFT, its the mindset of the Army leadership from platoon/squad level all the way to Chief of Staff of the Army.

For USR monthly unit reporting, unit reporting was done by how many passed the APFT, how many failed, how many that needed to test, had tested. All individual based, yet its a UNIT monthly report. Why have we never taken every individual PT score/add them up and divide by the number of personnel in the unit and then report the UNIT's APFT AVERAGE. Any unit who's collective score is below 260 for USR, it's time for unit commanders and 1SGs to get some counseling and told to fix it!

You have soldiers failing PT tests, its an organizational leadership failure and an individual failure, both have responsibility. Make your PT program as challenging as those special programs for PT failures and overwieght soldiers. If it requires going longer than 0630-0730, so what. Guess what leaders, your Soldiers out there scoring 280 and above are spending a couple hours of their own time to get that score. You can bet your ass they are not doing stretching, push ups and sit ups only either. They are doing on their own, what their leadership should be providing during their on duty time in tough-demanding-challenging PT Programs! The problem is not the APFT.

Response by SFC Walter Mack made Sep 8 at 2014 7:58 PM

2014-09-08T19:58:34-04:00

We should go back to the 1946 PT test. Most Soldiers now couldn't pass it, but it would force Soldiers to develop a work ethic and spend time away from the PS4.
http://www.ihpra.org/1946%20(world%20war%20ii)%20army%20physical%20fitness%20test.htm

Response by SPC David S. made Sep 9 at 2014 2:34 PM

2014-09-09T14:34:10-04:00

As a large person at 6'4" 250lbs I feel that adding the pull-up would have ruined my day when I was in. In my prime I was able to bench press over 300lbs but I sucked at pull-ups, however I maxed out the push-ups and sits-ups and did fairly decent on the run. In order for larger guys or girls to build enough functional muscle mass to pull up 250lb plus bodies it would more than likely result in a musle bound physique. Additionally there is also possible physical damange that could result. The joints, ligaments, and tendons are vulnerable with this exercise using improper techique. Just my 2 cents Sargent Davis.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 4:14 PM

2015-05-28T16:14:44-04:00

It should be added for all of the reasons listed in the article. Also the events should be changed to physical attributes you want to develop. The current setup only requires you to train for the test. The biggest drawback is the lack of a strength exercise which anyone who has been deployed will tell you it is a strength sport.

I think they should just take the USMC PFT and CFT use that change the Sit-up to a lower body exercise or whatever silliness they want and call it a day.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 4:46 PM

2015-05-28T16:46:15-04:00

What we need to do before adjusting the APFT is to determine what the requirements are for the APFT. What are we trying to measure? Cardiovascular, strength, and/or flexibility and which muscle groups or range of motion? Then see what types of exercises and drills we can employ.

Use of equipment required is a secondary concern. The USMC still does pull-ups for their tests and equipment does not seem to be a problem for them. When deployed we seem to find a way to construct at the very least a form of prison gym. If all else fails then find a way to waive the APFT for deployments or have alternate events.

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Oct 11 at 2015 9:12 PM

2015-10-11T21:12:13-04:00

Yes because I found pullups to be very challenging & it took me a few weeks of hard work to be able to do 10 & then 20 pullups They really helped to improve upper body strength & were a part of a PT program & I think still are today ..

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Oct 12 at 2015 11:38 AM

2015-10-12T11:38:36-04:00

easy answer keep it simple why make it harder, why add all the extra paper work for counseling statements and the extra work when there is far more important training and yes PT is very important just remember the K.I.S.S. acronym and you can't go wrong.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Oct 12 at 2015 11:40 AM

2015-10-12T11:40:56-04:00

That explains a lot about why I joined the Navy, Pull-ups and being shot at, not my cup of tea (coffee).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2015 6:07 PM

2015-10-14T18:07:54-04:00

Yes pull ups for sure need to be added. The PT test is week. They need to make it alot harder. My 12 year old daughter wanted me to grade her and see of she could do it. She scored a 284 on the men's hardest standard. It is a shame that soldiers out there can't past. We need to start making the army tough. It is way to easy.