Do you think male Soldiers should know the female regulations in AR 670-1 just as much as the female herself?

2015-10-05T13:18:56-04:00

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 1:20 PM

2015-10-05T13:20:03-04:00

Any male leader MUST know the regulations for all personnel.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 1:20 PM

2015-10-05T13:20:38-04:00

Certainly. How else will a male be able to correct a uniform infraction unless they are aware of the regs. This goes for both genders.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 2:07 PM

2015-10-05T14:07:46-04:00

I think we should, but I admit I don't. I have to look up female uniform (mainly hair) information regularly.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 2:09 PM

2015-10-05T14:09:00-04:00

Yes, because you should be able to correct the male and female soldier equally!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 2:11 PM

2015-10-05T14:11:16-04:00

Good leaders should know the regulations that govern their subordinates.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 5 at 2015 2:11 PM

2015-10-05T14:11:24-04:00

The Uniform regs shouldn't be so complex that everyone doesn't have a basic understanding of them. That said, you will know the parts YOU (as in personally) use daily. If you don't have jump wings, you probably won't know the jump wings measurements off the top of your head. If you don't wear earrings, you are less likely to know them in depth, especially if you are in a unit without females.

That's why there is a reg though. So you can grab it off the shelf if something looks wrong.

In my first unit, there weren't females. Not in the Unit, not in the Camp, not on that side of the Base. I wasn't going to take up brain space memorizing it, unless there was pressing need. When I went to Quantico, I refreshed my memory especially as I had Marines under my direct purview who the regs applied to.

When I got our and was working retail, one of my store associates showed up in a mini-skirt. The assistant manager said "aren't you going to say something?" to which I told him, "in a second" and I grabbed the employee handbook, grabbed the work attire section and sent her home. It wasn't that I didn't know it was there, it was that I wasn't going to get into a pissing contest with her about it, when I could show her in B&W where it was (she was a "problem child").

There's a difference between knowing the regs, and remembering the gist of the regs to make corrections. How many times have there been minor & major modifications to the regs? This isn't a gender issue. It's about knowing the pieces which are most pertinent to your day to day activities.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Oct 5 at 2015 2:12 PM

2015-10-05T14:12:25-04:00

Absolutely. NCO's need to enforce standards regardless of gender.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Oct 5 at 2015 2:31 PM

2015-10-05T14:31:36-04:00

Yes. No if, ands, or buts about it... And the same for female Soldiers, Airmen, Seamen or Marines...

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Oct 5 at 2015 3:18 PM

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Yes, as to uniform and hair correction for the female soldiers.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 3:21 PM

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If you want to lead them, you'd better damn well know the standards.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 3:25 PM

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yes

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Oct 5 at 2015 3:51 PM

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SFC Private RallyPoint Member All Leaders need to know the proper wear of uniforms for both genders. Now regular Joes have a hard enough time getting their stuff straight without having to worry about the other gender, so I don't think lower enlisted need to.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 3:53 PM

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In the Navy, our advancement exams have a little portion that applies to regs. No matter what gender you are, you will receive questions on male and female regulations. So that's the Navy. Personally, I agree. All men and women of every branch, especially NCOs and POs, need to know the regs of the same and opposite sex. It's our job to correct them and if you fail to and a more strict Senior NCO recognizes that, they won't care if you are the opposite sex or not.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Oct 5 at 2015 3:54 PM

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Yeah???

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 5:21 PM

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SSG Monica Mims (Rhett), Yes, if you are a leader you need to know the regulations that cover those you lead and at the bare minimum you need to know which one covers each topic such as AR 670-1, AR 600-9, DA PAM 670-1, AR 600-8-2 etc. so that you can quickly reference it if you yourself have a question about someone's appearance, etc.

Response by Sgt Ken Prescott made Oct 5 at 2015 10:24 PM

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Part of being a leader is having enough knowledge to correct a subordinate's wearing of the uniform when necessary, or praise them for setting an outstanding example. I didn't wear naval aircrew wings, but some of my Marines did, so I made sure I understood all of the regulations regarding naval aircrew wings.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 11:08 PM

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If they want to be a NCO

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Oct 6 at 2015 12:38 PM

2015-10-06T12:38:04-04:00

I don't see why not.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Oct 6 at 2015 12:47 PM

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NCO's should! The Standards should be the same in most areas. I know they are not.

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Oct 6 at 2015 1:42 PM

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Yes

Response by SFC Dwayne Gilson made Oct 6 at 2015 2:28 PM

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Yes as simple as that

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 2:35 PM

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You cannot hold a soldier to a standard you have not trained them to meet. How can you train a standard you don't know. Every NCO should know Every AR. Cannot pick and choose here.

Response by SFC Ross Boger made Oct 6 at 2015 2:56 PM

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if you are going to lead them you need to get after it

Response by SSG Brian Hall made Oct 6 at 2015 3:00 PM

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Absolutely. I remember as a squad leader in the Army, I had a female soldier that came in with studs in her ears. This is against regulation. Her and I both were about to be sent home without drill pay for the day.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 3:09 PM

2015-10-06T15:09:16-04:00

Ridiculous question....if you are a leader you must know the standards in order to enforce them regardless of your sex....if you plan on being a leader you better know dress and appearance for all solderers and in today's "Joint Service" environment you might want to take a look at the guidelines for any sister service members serving under and with you also.

Response by SGT Yovonne Autrey-Schell made Oct 6 at 2015 3:24 PM

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Yes, and vice versa.

Response by SFC David Pope, MBA made Oct 6 at 2015 3:26 PM

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And vise versa! A good leader knows rules for all subordinates, no matter what their gender.

Response by MSgt Craig Kuiper made Oct 6 at 2015 4:02 PM

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Yes you should just as females should know the males portion. If you want to be effective leaders you should know all regs that will affect your troops.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 4:17 PM

2015-10-06T16:17:43-04:00

I think members of either sex should know the regulations and/or instructions that could apply to both them and/or their subordinates (and even their seniors). So yes, males should know the female end as well as the females knowing the male end. You can't uphold/enforce them if you don't know them. This is regardless of branch so would apply to AFI 36-2903 in the AF or whichever for Navy/Marines or Coast Guard.

Response by SSG Garry Livesay made Oct 6 at 2015 4:29 PM

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there are no male and female soldiers, just soldiers and all of the should know AR670-1

Response by SSG Steve Hopkins made Oct 6 at 2015 4:32 PM

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Absolutely, if they are put in a leadership role this would have to be common knowledge. And I believe females should know the same for males for the same reason

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 4:45 PM

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You need to know the regs and requirements for anyone you expect to lead.

Response by SGT Bill Undique Shavkey made Oct 6 at 2015 5:00 PM

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Yes! No question about this at all! NCO's, especially, need to know them. It's a matter of discipline, respect and comradery!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 5:14 PM

2015-10-06T17:14:45-04:00

Are male Soldiers going to enforce the standards, or do we leave females to police themselves while the males butt out? Can't enforce what you don't know.

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Oct 6 at 2015 5:17 PM

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Leaders should

Response by SSgt Diana Whitaker made Oct 6 at 2015 5:33 PM

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I think males and females in the military need to have mandatory rape, and sexual assault training every year of their enlistment. Majority of Officiers think they walk on water and know the legal regulations. They do not know them, and the lady or male activity duty member suffers for life.

Response by SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr made Oct 6 at 2015 5:47 PM

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Many have already made the statement ... each step of Non-Commissioned Officer Leadership Courses address knowing the standard for the "Military Uniform". Their is no place for leniency based on a lazadictial attitude of any leader. AR 670-1 is an Army standard, not just "DIY" for each individual.

In the attempt to keep it short ... if the male leadership is not required to know the female uniform, than female leadership should not be required to know the male uniform. (Correct ?) This would prevent on the spot corrections for a should that is ate up as a soup sandwich.

Response by MSgt Wayne Blake made Oct 6 at 2015 5:51 PM

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Anyone who leads must know the regs...male or female!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 5:54 PM

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Yes they should. I currently have 8 female soldiers and all of my NCOs are male. The only way to take care of a Soldier is to know as much as you.

Response by SGT Kristin Myers made Oct 6 at 2015 6:12 PM

2015-10-06T18:12:07-04:00

Of course. As a female in a mostly male aviation world, I was usually the only female in my platoon. It is necessary to enforce the standards as well as inspect the dress uniform for correctness. Vice versa for males for females and regulations for them.

Response by SFC Garry Kolberg made Oct 6 at 2015 6:14 PM

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If you are in a leadership position, you had better know! It is common sense. Not knowing is not an excuse.

Response by SSG Drew Cook made Oct 6 at 2015 7:05 PM

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No. Each sex needs to stay in their respective lane. You can't be a good NCO if you're constantly worrying about the regulations that govern the opposite sex. Sheesh.

Response by SGT Jarrod Coffman made Oct 6 at 2015 8:31 PM

2015-10-06T20:31:01-04:00

Yes, I do think males should know the female AR 670-1 and vice versa. If you become a Jr. NCO, NCO or an Officer you have to know the regulation for uniform appearance. To point the fact and case... I was in NCO responsible for counseling of a female soldier and when it came time for dress uniform inspection I had to know how the ribbons, name tag, and regimental crest were suppose to be and the measurement.

Response by MSG Karl Arrington made Oct 6 at 2015 8:54 PM

2015-10-06T20:54:15-04:00

Of course, especially if a male has to supervise female soldiers. Generally speaking though, how can you make on the spot corrections if you don't know anything about the regs?

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made Oct 6 at 2015 8:58 PM

2015-10-06T20:58:34-04:00

Yes!! 100% they should. As a leader you should know the regulations. And if you are not sure CHECK the reg. I was asked questions about the female uniform regulations on a board by a female 1SG. She said if you are going to be an NCO I better learn them. And you don't want to make a fool of yourself.

Response by SFC Aliye Espinosa made Oct 6 at 2015 10:05 PM

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Any damn leader should know the rules and regulations governing them and their soldiers, if you must ask this question you shouldnt be leading

Response by SGT Tim Fridley made Oct 7 at 2015 12:42 AM

2015-10-07T00:42:03-04:00

I believe as an NCO or SPC looking to become an NCO if you are to lead you need to know every aspect of AR 670-1

Response by SGT Felicia King made Oct 7 at 2015 12:50 AM

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If they have a female soldier, yes! They need to know when that mug is out of regs, because many times females be walking around as wrong as ever but their make NCOs either don't know the regs or are too scared to put them in their place for fear that female start crying like a little wench. Both wrong!

Response by SSG Stacy Worley made Oct 7 at 2015 12:55 AM

2015-10-07T00:55:10-04:00

Everyone should know both. Anyone who wears the uniform is responsible for calling out non-compliance, not just leaders. I have called out jack-holes that were violating regs while I was in civvies. A couple gave me grief until I went Drill Sergeant on their ass. Lmao, everyone remembers what the presence of a DS feels like.

Response by MSG John Wirts made Oct 7 at 2015 1:38 AM

2015-10-07T01:38:39-04:00

Knowing the regulations and standards for all personnel, is essential, In one of my units we had a female solder up for promotion, her uniform was the lime green dress. This uniform has pin on brass stripes on the collar, no US or branch insignia, no unit crest, and no unit patch. This lady had gone through basic training before this uniform was adopted. She had a unit patch, sew on stripes, collar brass and unit crests. We were 5 minutes from the promotion ceremony We had to remove all incorrect insignia s , and replace them with the correct insignia, in time for the ceremony. Unless we the NCOs of this unit knew the regulations this lady would have appeared out of uniform for her promotion, pictures would have been taken and this would reflect badly on the young lady and her leaders.

Response by SSG Dawn Ward made Oct 7 at 2015 1:47 AM

2015-10-07T01:47:19-04:00

Yes I agree that male soldiers should be well versed in female AR 670-1 especially if the male soldier is the females SR NCO, I also feel that female soldiers should be well versed in the AR 670-1 interference to male soldiers, that way there is no room for error and every one is on point and the same sheet of music

Response by SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris made Oct 7 at 2015 9:02 AM

2015-10-07T09:02:09-04:00

Absolutely. When I was a young SPC then CPL, our NCOIC had Class A inspections twice a year. My male battles would ask why certain things were different or missing on my uniform. Instead of having me explain, our NCOIC would challenge us all to look at the regs so we would learn for ourselves and be able to check each other.

This actually came in handy for a promotion board when our acting 1SG was going to ding someone's appeance due to her hair length. His lack of knowledge on the women's regs nearly cost her points.

Response by MSG Ronnie Snider made Oct 7 at 2015 9:35 AM

2015-10-07T09:35:05-04:00

Yes they should. I did. To correct one must understand the regs.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2015 9:46 AM

2015-10-07T09:46:22-04:00

Yes it is your job, how are you to lead soldiers if you do not know the basic standards for your all of your soldiers.

Response by SSG Mark Mcmorris made Oct 7 at 2015 10:07 AM

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Yes and that's the bottom line

Response by PO1 Clyde Plunkett made Oct 7 at 2015 10:42 AM

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Both Male & female should know the different / difference regulations regulations that apply to the opposite sex.

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Oct 7 at 2015 11:36 AM

2015-10-07T11:36:12-04:00

Most certainly. Just as the female Soldier should know the male reg.'s. That's almost a no brainer. You need to be a well rounded Soldier specially if your going to be an NCO and above. All Drill Sgt.'s have to know these reg.'s, so why not everyone else? How else is a Soldier going to know if someone is or isn't out of "reg." and can do on the spot correction and help their fellow Soldier BEFORE they get into trouble with brass or a DS if in basic or on training or even in public and someone should spot it who is prior service. It's about team work and helping each other out whether it's male or female...gender doesn't matter!

Response by SGT Kevin Karvinen made Oct 7 at 2015 12:31 PM

2015-10-07T12:31:05-04:00

Absolutely!!! As an NCO or Officer you sure as hell better know all the Regulations if you expect to be a leader!

Response by 1SG John Rembert made Oct 7 at 2015 1:15 PM

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I believe it is incumbent for every NCO to know the Regulation for male or female Soldiers especially when the male NCO is in charge of female Soldiers..

Response by SGT Thomas LaRochelle made Oct 7 at 2015 1:42 PM

2015-10-07T13:42:10-04:00

I was going to respond but the first few comments stated the obvious and only correct answer.

Response by SGT Kenneth Starks made Oct 7 at 2015 2:38 PM

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Of course, if female soldiers are to be under male command, the male in charge needs to be up on what is going on with his troops.

Response by SFC Gary Burress made Oct 7 at 2015 8:59 PM

2015-10-07T20:59:52-04:00

That is always something that gets soldiers going up before SOM and promotion boards. If you want to excel, you have to know the rules for ALL soldiers.

Response by SFC Brian Gillum made Oct 8 at 2015 8:35 AM

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Yes.

Even if you happen to be in one of the no Female MOSs and you are assigned to a female excluded unit, you are, more likely than not, going to run into female soldiers somewhere. If you don't know the regulation it is kind of difficult to make the necessary on the spot corrections of uniform violations.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2015 12:04 PM

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Yes, absolutely. Regulations and standards must be known by all personnel, especially those who lead.

Response by 1SG William Svoboda made Oct 8 at 2015 12:12 PM

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Yes SSG Mims I would not only think so but as a former NCO Academy SGL and Chief TNG and OPS, I know we taught 670-1 from front to back covering all soldiers (warriors). As a 1SG I would have been at a great disadvantage to not be familiar with the reg and ensure my PLT LDRS and other subordinate leaders know the reg or at least to address it in TNG. We are responsible to the leader and the led to cover A to Z or we're not training our replacements and even setting them up for failure if we don't. It also goes without saying, that all soldiers regardless of gender to know they are meeting the standards and can articulate them if challenged. I'm not active duty having retired 20 years ago, (damn I'm getting down that trail) however, in todays armed forces we have more to be, know, do then in my day with equality issues being addressed and jobs opening to all sexes as well as trans-gendered soldiers that highlight and enhance the leaders and soldiers responsibility to be at least operationally aware of the regulations. We can't assume rank = knowledge and understanding.

Response by SSG Katherine Likely made Oct 8 at 2015 12:54 PM

2015-10-08T12:54:48-04:00

I personally think that regardless of your sex - you should know the regs, how can you possibly be a leader if you don't know them? As far as other males knowing them for whatever reason - why not? Why shouldn't everyone know what the regs are for each other - it certainly can't hurt anything and it might improve the working relationship between all members.

You can't work as a team - if someone feels like there being cheated or they thing the other sex is getting away with something. If everyone knows - corrections can be made quietly - one buddy to the other - instead of being singled out at formation. Correct the problem and move on.

True teamwork.

Response by CW2 Eric Scott made Oct 8 at 2015 1:03 PM

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Not so much male soldiers but NCOs and Officers period. Can't very well be a correcting NCO quoting AR 670-1 if you are an idiot with female uniforms. Ask any drill sergeant.

Response by SrA Joshua Hagler made Oct 8 at 2015 9:31 PM

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I had an ole section chief (master sergeant)(E-7)(air force) that use to destroy any woman who was out of regs. Half the time they themselves didn't know the regs. It was awesome to seem him rip them on finger polish, hair, nail length, hair color, and even make up. Then we end up getting a Senior Master Sergeant (E-8) who was a former drill instructor for 8 years and her would not only back him up, but would call his wife who just made Chief (E-9) and the scream and the crying that would happen was amazing. Now I believe if you make it to and NCO rank then I think you should know it, or have the reg book close by.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2015 3:21 PM

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I knew the standard and ensured that the 6 months I had females in my company that they were compliant. I wasn't scared and never disregarded it.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Oct 26 at 2015 3:46 PM

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Absolutely SSG Mims, during my tenure I had female soldiers and any true leader needs to be well rounded in knowing all regulations.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2015 3:53 PM

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We have to know all standards as leaders of Soldiers! It is difficult when we change uniforms every five seconds, but hair length and such doesn't.

Response by SGT Ray Grooms made Oct 26 at 2015 7:42 PM

2015-10-26T19:42:24-04:00

YES! At my E5 board, one of the questions concerned the hem length of the female skirt. I later learned they asked the female's about the hem length for male trousers.

Response by SGT Kenneth Starks made Nov 6 at 2015 6:22 AM

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If you are in a leadership position, there is no question. But now you are getting away from the original subject.

Response by SSG Tim Ingle made Nov 17 at 2015 8:23 PM

2015-11-17T20:23:31-05:00

Yes you should know the regarding for all soldiers

Response by SFC Jason Babb made Nov 17 at 2015 9:06 PM

2015-11-17T21:06:14-05:00

They publish those regs so they can be referenced. The Army isn't ran on the tradition of oral history. Learn what you can but don't fear looking up a reg. Nobody can memorize it all. Know the basic and obvious, sure, but I don't think it's a knock on someone if they have to consult the regs to answer a specific question.
(I commented this same thing on someone else's post.)

Response by MSG Gerry Poe made Nov 17 at 2015 9:11 PM

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It isn't knowing the regulation as it is to research the regulation. A lot of AR 670-1 can be seen differently as the reg is so general. It is good to have it handy when it comes to understanding the rules! For the female aspects of the reg, knowing where to look to solve issues is a must. I have the reg as I have many on my iBook app.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 2:41 AM

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Answer: Yes. Leadership or not, it is important to know both.

Response by SP6 Ed Gibbons made Jun 16 at 2018 10:25 AM

2018-06-16T10:25:32-04:00

Absolutely...

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 16 at 2018 11:24 AM

2018-06-16T11:24:46-04:00

I would, if I had women in my unit. When I did- I keep my mouth shut till I had looked up what was bothering me, then we talked.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jun 16 at 2018 11:55 AM

2018-06-16T11:55:10-04:00

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2018 5:00 PM

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All NCOs should know AR 670-1 without regard to gender. You didn't state the specific issue, such as wear of the hair, make up, nails, etc. Regardless, you know what it states, or you don't. Easy to infer someone is try to make corrections where there is no violation, which is an opportunity to educate that NCO.

Response by SGT Debra McDonough Travis made Jun 15 at 2019 1:44 PM

2019-06-15T13:44:26-04:00

Absolutely. It doesn't matter male of female, all should know the regs.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Apr 29 at 2021 6:14 PM

2021-04-29T18:14:15-04:00

Leaders should know and enforce standards I used to keep pertinate excerpts in my leader book