Do you think killing the head of a militant organization really makes a difference?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:37:34 -0400

GAZA, Nov 14 (Reuters) - Israel launched a major offensive against Palestinian militants in Gaza on Wednesday, killing the military commander of Hamas in an air strike and threatening an invasion of the enclave that the Islamist group vowed would "open the gates of hell".

The onslaught shattered hopes that a truce mediated on Tuesday by Egypt could pull the two sides back from the brink of war after five days of escalating Palestinian rocket attacks and Israeli strikes at militant targets.

Operation "Pillar of Defence" began with a surgical strike on a car carrying the commander of the military wing of Hamas, the Islamist movement which controls Gaza and dominates a score of smaller armed groups.

Within minutes of the death of Ahmed Al-Jaabari, big explosions were rocking Gaza, as the Israeli air force struck at selected targets just before sundown, blasting plumes of smoke and debris high above the crowded city.

Panicking civilians ran for cover and the death toll mounted quickly. Seven people including two girls under the age of five were killed, the health ministry said.

A second Gaza war has loomed on the horizon for months as waves of Palestinian rocket attacks and Israeli strikes grew increasingly more intense and frequent.

Israel's Operation Cast Lead in 2008-2009 began with a week of air attacks and shelling, followed by a land invasion of the blockaded coastal strip, sealed off at sea by the Israeli navy. Some 1,400 Palestinians were killed and 13 Israelis died.

Hamas said Jaabari, who ran the organisation's armed wing, Izz el-Deen Al-Qassam, died along with an unnamed associate when their car was blown apart by an Israeli missile.

The charred and mangled wreckage of a car could be seen belching flames, as emergency crews picked up what appeared to be body parts.

GATES OF HELL

Israel confirmed it had carried out the attack and announced there was more to come. Reuters witnesses saw Hamas security compounds and police stations blasted apart.

"This is an operation against terror targets of different organisations in Gaza," Israeli army spokeswoman Colonel Avital Leibovitch told reporters.

Jaabari had "a lot of blood on his hands", she said. Other militant groups including Islamic Jihad were on the target list.

Immediate calls for revenge were broadcast over Hamas radio.

"The occupation has opened the gates of hell," Hamas's armed wing said. Smaller groups also vowed to strike back.

"Israel has declared war on Gaza and they will bear the responsibility for the consequences," Islamic Jihad said.

Southern Israeli communities within rocket range of Gaza were on full alert, and schools were ordered closed for Thursday. About one million Israelis live in range of Gaza's relatively primitive but lethal rockets, supplemented in recent months by longer-range, more accurate systems.

"The days we face in the south will, in my estimation, prove protracted," Brigadier-General Yoav Mordechai, Israel's chief military spokesman, told Channel 2 TV.

"The home front must brace itself resiliently."

Mordechai said Israel was both responding to a surge in Palestinian rocket salvoes earlier this week and trying to prevent Hamas and other Palestinian factions from building up their arsenals further.

Among the targets of Wednesday's air strikes were underground caches of longer-range Hamas rockets, he said.

Asked if Israel might send in ground forces, Mordechai said: "There are preparations, and if we are required to, the option of an entry by ground is available."

HAMAS EMBOLDENED

Israel's intelligence agency Shin Bet said Jaabari was responsible for Hamas' takeover of the Gaza Strip in 2007, when the militant Islamist group ousted fighters of the Fatah movement of its great rival, the Western-backed Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas.

It said Jaabari instigated the attack that led to the capture of Israeli Corporal Gilad Shalit in a kidnap raid from Gaza in 2006. Jaabari was also the man who handed Shalit over to Israel in a prisoner exchange five years after his capture.

Israel holds a general election on Jan. 22 and conservative Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has pledged to retaliate harshly against Hamas.

Hamas has been emboldened by the rise to power in neighbouring Egypt of its spiritual mentors in the Muslim Brotherhood, viewing them as a "safety net" that will not permit a second Israeli thrashing of Gaza, home to 1.7 million Palestinians.

Egypt condemned Israel's strikes on Gaza and urged it to end the attacks at once.

Hamas has historically been supported by Iran, which Israel regards as a rising threat to its own existence due to its nuclear programme.

In the flare-up that was prelude to Wednesday's offensive, more than 115 missiles were fired into southern Israel from Gaza and Israeli planes launched numerous strikes.

Seven Palestinians, three of them gunmen, were killed. Eight Israeli civilians were hurt by rocket fire and four soldiers wounded by an anti-tank missile.

Helped by Iran and the flourishing contraband trade through tunnels from Egypt, Gaza militias have smuggled in better weapons since the war of 2008-09.

But Gaza's estimated 35,000 Palestinian fighters are still no match for Israel's F-16 fighter-bombers, Apache helicopter gunships, Merkava tanks and other modern weapons systems in the hands of a conscript force of 175,000, with 450,000 in reserve.

Israel's shekel fell nearly one percent to a two-month low against the dollar on Wednesday after news of the Israeli air strikes broke.
Earlier, Israel killed the head of the Hamas military wing, Ahmed Jabari, in an airstrike. In all, Palestinian officials say six people have been killed in the Israeli attacks.

Israel says the airstrikes are the beginning of a broader operation, launched in response to days of heavy rocket fire from Gaza.

Addition: I think it does make a difference and I think it would make a bigger difference if we could do it in a way that would prevent them from being martyrs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/14/ahmed-jabari-dead-hamas-militant-chief-israel-airstrike_n_2129308.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ncid=webmail1

Israeli Airstrike Kills Hamas Militant Chief

* Israel says major operation may last days * Does not rule out ground invasion of Gaza * Hamas, militant groups vow to fight * First target was Hamas comm

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2015 2:38 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:38:37 -0400

In this case, cut off the head of one snake - and three more will rise to take its place.

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Jun 20 at 2015 2:41 PM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:41:55 -0400

What's the alternative? Know the location of your enemy and let them go? Should the U.S. not have gone after Bin Laden, or others leaders of AQ and ISIS?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2015 2:46 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 14:46:15 -0400

With a well organized militia, taking down the head would only cause a ripple effect.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jun 20 at 2015 3:42 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 15:42:40 -0400

It does make a difference to the head of the terrorist organization.

He won't ever do that again.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jun 20 at 2015 4:01 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 16:01:23 -0400

Taking out 100 armed members who are doing their part for $20 or coersion has miniscule effect as opposed to taking out a brain, a banker, or a commo guru.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 20 at 2015 5:36 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 17:36:02 -0400

It would be foolish of them to not have a hierarchy of leaders.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Jun 20 at 2015 5:43 PM

Cpl Dennis F. — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 17:43:58 -0400

I'm sure that it makes a very big difference to him and his immediate buds.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jun 20 at 2015 7:36 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:36:08 -0400

What happens when our battalion commander is killed? XO steps up. He's killed? Main Effort Company Commander. He's down? SE1 CO and so on.

Attrition of leadership is still attrition warfare.

1. Determine enemy Center of Gravity
2. Find critical vulnerability.
3. Exploit.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 20 at 2015 8:22 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 20:22:50 -0400

Yes, if for no other reason there is one less of them to kill later.

Response by PO1 John Meyer, CPC made Jun 20 at 2015 10:35 PM

PO1 John Meyer, CPC — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 22:35:03 -0400

I find these militant groups to be like the Lernaean Hydra from ancient Greek mythology. Cut one head off and two more appear.

When Heracles was sent to destroy the Hydra, he found it to be an impossible task, just as we are finding it impossible to stop these militant groups. Cut one head off and two more appear in its place.

Iolaus (Heracles' nephew) discovered a way to finally kill the Hydra, which remained invulnerable so long as it had at least one head. All they had to do was cauterize the neck stumps after Heracles cut the head off so it was impossible for the Hydra to grow two heads out of the severed neck.

This is what we have do to today.... We have to find a way to cauterize the neck stump after the head is cut off. The obvious trick is to discover what needs to be done. Legend has it that Iolaus was probably inspired by the goddess Athena, so he had help. This is what we need.... help from the international community, which is mostly to scared to do anything but talk about the problem.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jun 21 at 2015 12:57 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sun, 21 Jun 2015 00:57:10 -0400

I think it helps, it always helps. But, it is only part of the solution. In a society(s) that is ruled by thugs, guns, violence, and power, there is always someone else waiting to be the man... or take over. I think taking out leaders has psychological impact on both sides, but it does not solve the problem, based on what I said first. You need to attack (with a vengeance) these organizations on all levels.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2015 1:23 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Jun 2015 01:23:58 -0400

It matters to the militant head who has the last thing going through his mind a .50 caliber bullet.
That is a pretty good deterrent to the next man up.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2015 2:43 AM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:43:09 -0400

Yes and No.

No, because of how these groups are structured. Anyone can step up into the leadership role and be the face of terror. The only real prerequisite is having a firm grasp of radicalized Islam and a fervent hate for anything not Islamic. Even if you kill their leader a hundred times there will always be someone, somewhere, to step up and continue the jihad.

Yes, because while these leaders are radicalized the lower ranks are not so much radicalized. Each and every death shows that we can hit them anywhere, at anytime, whenever we feel like it. Death from above courtesy of the US Air Force. Nowhere is truly safe. Each hit must be a pretty big hit to the morale of the lesser troops. I think it would certainly effect their fighting and levels of commitment.

Although...like someone else said...what's the alternative? You hit them when you can and you take any result you can get out of it. If it was an easy battle we wouldn't be fighting it.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 21 at 2015 2:55 AM

PO1 John Miller — Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:55:39 -0400

Of course it does, and we should double down our efforts to take out the heads and all their top officers as well. When you have nobody left but your "common terrorists" they'll get the idea and pray to Allah that the US military won't go Allahu Akbar on them too!

Response by COL Ted Mc made Oct 31 at 2015 1:56 PM

COL Ted Mc — Sat, 31 Oct 2015 13:56:24 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member - Captain; Yes it "makes a difference" - it just doesn't make as much of a difference as the PR boys would like to have you think it does.

How many times have you seen headlines equivalent to "al-Qa'eda Number Two Man Killed"? [Personally, if I were a member of ISIS, I'd turn down the Number 2 position in a shot and insist on staying on as Number 3 (because I can't recall ever seeing a headline equivalent to "Al-Qa'eda Number Three Man Killed"). The Number 3 slot appears to have one hell of a lot more "job security" than the Number 2 slot does.]

What would probably be even more effective would be if the leader simply vanished without a trace and without any witnesses to their vanishing.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2015 6:19 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Nov 2015 18:19:27 -0500

I'd like to point out that the members of terrorist organization are often only skilled in the herding of women and having sex with sheep. Every time you kill off one with any knowledge or skills, it makes it that much more difficult for those who remain to accomplish more than threaten us, or carry out local actions.

Given the Afghan Taliban predilection for having sex with anything but a woman, it may be decades before another leader is trained up to the lost skill set. So ignore their rhetoric and kill as many of the SOBs as possible.

Response by SFC Terry Wilcox made Dec 16 at 2019 6:51 PM

SFC Terry Wilcox — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 18:51:15 -0500

Eliminating the head of a Terrorist organization, might not stop - - will not stop the spread of their advance. It might do some good, in that it is psychological and demeaning to their leadership. I agree that if there were a means of preventing these terrorist leaders from being Martyrs, this would be the drop in the bucket, that makes a ripples difference.

Response by SGT Brad Baier made Dec 20 at 2019 9:42 AM

SGT Brad Baier — Fri, 20 Dec 2019 09:42:50 -0500

Israel will always be hated by the muslims. Israel needs to do whatever it can to protect itself from further attacks. If they kill the leaders the rest are not going to be as organized. Then new leaders will take over and then you kill them and so on. It will never end until one side is completely wiped out. It's sad that so many will die in the future but the hatred for the Jewish people runs deep in the muslim countries.