Do you think it is fair that a woman be required to pay half of her military retirement to an ex-husband convicted of child molestation?

2015-09-30T14:41:27-04:00

I wasn't aware this was an "Arizona" law, and I got my divorce here... I thought it was part of Federal Law? In fact, I've seen some (here) keep most/all of their retirement thanks to good lawyers and what the spouse is willing to "settle for". My lawyer wanted to do the same for me, but I opted out as I felt she was entitled, but I did have a choice/option and I think, in this veterans rush to get the divorce, she may have screwed herself, so I'm a bit confused by this Can anyone out there shed a little light on this subject?
The fact that he is a child molester and has been sentenced to life in prison, should this have bearing as to whether he is entitled to receive the spouse's retirement? Please share your justification/rationale! :)

Woman required to pay half of military retirement to ex-husband convicted of child sex crimes

A man sentenced to life in prison will be collecting half of his ex-wife's military retirement because of Arizona community property law. He was convicted for child pornography and sexual misconduc...

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Sep 30 at 2015 2:42 PM

2015-09-30T14:42:42-04:00

I think that if a spouse is convicted of a felony they automatically give up that entitlement.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Sep 30 at 2015 2:58 PM

2015-09-30T14:58:24-04:00

MSgt Curtis Ellis - While, as the article points out, she may be required to pay because of the state's community property law, absent that, she would also be required to pay under The Uniformed Services Former Spouse Protection Act, which is a Federal law, unless that law has provisions for incarcerated persons.

I do not think it fair and think that, with a good lawyer, she could possibly get some relief. Of course, the best thing would be for the incarcerated husband to waive his right to the money or establish a trust account for the kids, where all the money is deposited.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 3:16 PM

2015-09-30T15:16:37-04:00

You hear people mislead the military all the time on this subject. I am divorced, well was I just got remarried in 2013, had custody and raised three children while on active duty. My ex gets nothing, she paid me child support for years, I have 100% of my retirement and never gave her a dime of anything.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 3:28 PM

2015-09-30T15:28:04-04:00

Under the USFSPA, the local judge is not allowed to give the non-military spouse less than what the DFAS formula comes up with. If you are wondering, the formula is A/B*50% where:
A = # months married while in service
B = # of months credited for retirement

If A>120 months the spouse files directly with DFAS for direct payment and doesn't even need the court.

Biggest crock of shit in the world.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 30 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-09-30T16:34:10-04:00

This could happen anywhere you divorce as this article shows. Unless the actual legislation has some type of exclusion, it's a done deal. Whether we like it or not.

http://www.arizonalawgroup.com/dividing-your-military-retirement-in-divorce/

Phoenix Military Divorce - Dividing Retirement

Divorcing a member of the military is almost the same as a civilian, but there are a few important factors to be mindful of. Call us at 602.548.3400.

Response by MSgt Paul Bennetts made Oct 4 at 2015 11:51 AM

2015-10-04T11:51:17-04:00

My understanding is that even a retired member who commits a felony will have their retirement pension forfeited. How is this not the same. People need consequences for their actions

Response by CPL Linda Taylor made Oct 4 at 2015 11:52 AM

2015-10-04T11:52:42-04:00

I believe it. Criminals have more rights than upstanding citizens. I am a parole/probation officer and have been for 18 years. You would not believe what I have seen and heard. Perhaps a good Atty would help.

Response by SP5 Richard Maze made Oct 4 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-10-04T11:54:14-04:00

DFAS has the answer to the basic question: Does Federal Law mandate sharing retired pay for a former spouse, even one who is in prison. The answer is that the division of retirement is not automatic nor mandatory, but subject to state law. It allows retired pay to be treated as community property, and says if a court divides the pay that a spouse recieve their awarded shared directly from the Defense Department.
http://www.dfas.mil/garnishment/usfspa/faqs.html

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2015 11:55 AM

2015-10-04T11:55:37-04:00

HELL NO!!!!

Response by MAJ Karl Stumpff made Oct 4 at 2015 12:06 PM

2015-10-04T12:06:33-04:00

The Judge can overrule this,IF, the two can agree. I am curious about how his incarceration status effects this as well. Get a mad dog mean lawyer and fight.

Response by 1SG William Wayne made Oct 4 at 2015 12:08 PM

2015-10-04T12:08:45-04:00

This is one of those cases. The law is a good one. It is designed so that the good spouse after a 20 year hitch don't get left on the side of the road. Military life is hard on both. And its true that back in the day guys would get married just to get off post and have someone to talk to. NOW THE FIX. Law simply needs to be amended the same as retired pay rules are. If you commit a crime with more than 90 days jail time you loose the entitlement. Get our government sorry guys cant say leaders they are not showing much of that lately, involved

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2015 12:20 PM

2015-10-04T12:20:05-04:00

That's terrible. Hell naaw, she shouldn't have to give him half. He's locked up for life. What is he doing with the money anyway? He's...locked up. Give him 1%, for commissary, at BEST.

Response by Capt Errol Flynn made Oct 4 at 2015 12:22 PM

2015-10-04T12:22:13-04:00

He should be entitled to nothing. We have laws in the US that prevent people from profiting from crime, ie writing a book or movie script about the crime, while incarcerated, so this is not so far removed from that line of reasoning. You're rights to your former spouses money should not extend to your prison cell, especially when you will die in prison, and never be able to really spend it in the first place. The entire federal law that allows a spouse to take half your retirement if you were married more than 10 years is total BS anyway. The military creates the perfect storm for a high divorce rate due to the stress, deployment cycle, etc. If they want to reward the injured spouse, it should come straight from their own budget, and not that of the retiree. This is just another form of liberal wealth redistribution.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2015 12:48 PM

2015-10-04T12:48:19-04:00

Federal law does not control family law (including marriage and divorce). Before people get uppity, Obergefell was not a family law case, it was a constitutional Fourteenth Amendment case, and that Amendment trumps State law by design.

This is a "victory" for anyone opposed to so-called judicial activism.

Is this justice? What powers would you have the courts invoke to do justice in this case where the legislature has spoken so clearly?

Response by Cpl Robert Masi made Oct 4 at 2015 12:53 PM

2015-10-04T12:53:14-04:00

I think women are going to have a hard time getting sympathy from most men. Simply because of the ways the laws are.
When divorce occurs, women can take your kids, use them against you, and take all your money and everything you've worked for........Whatever the circumstances behind THIS particular matter, it doesn't matter. There are hundreds of thousands of circumstances where men have been brought to ruin because of divorce and the courts stealing from men and giving it to the wife.

Response by PVT Andrew Burd made Oct 4 at 2015 12:55 PM

2015-10-04T12:55:51-04:00

Better Call Saul! ...dammit.. that's New Mexico...

Response by SPC Antonio E. Reyes made Oct 4 at 2015 1:06 PM

2015-10-04T13:06:02-04:00

No exceptions! If any lawyer can shed any light. What about prenuptial agreements before the marriage???

Response by SGT Sara Hodgkiss made Oct 4 at 2015 1:22 PM

2015-10-04T13:22:45-04:00

What an awful situation!

Response by SSG Michael Patton made Oct 4 at 2015 1:36 PM

2015-10-04T13:36:12-04:00

There's more to this story. [Joanna Gulli · Tucson, Arizona
Unfortunately, all too often, only one side of the story is reported. If all the facts were investigated it would be discovered the judge's decision was for him to receive only $100 of his half of THEIR pension, the rest going to her for child support. The judge's decision was an equitable distribution not 50/50. She received every thing else including their house, two vehicles, furnishings, all items pertaining to their home and property and bank accounts. There is no reason why her children can't go to college and live a comfortable life if she spends her money wisely.]

Response by PV2 Scott Goodpasture made Oct 4 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-10-04T13:52:47-04:00

Yes

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Oct 4 at 2015 4:28 PM

2015-10-04T16:28:43-04:00

Sad as it is, she is suffering as many men have over the years. His legal troubles and his divorce is two different court issues and probably will not effect each other. She needs a good lawyer. But in today's world with the crazy rights of the the criminals there is no telling how it will turn out. I can just say welcome to a mans world.

Response by PO1 Gary Michalosky made Oct 4 at 2015 9:12 PM

2015-10-04T21:12:37-04:00

The courts do this as a way to help get that daily prison fee they charge inmates, plain and simple. It's about revenue that the State will get and nothing more. By the way, if it were the Veteran being sentenced for more than 30 days, regardless of the charge and the VA finds out, they will lose their disability or pension pay for the duration of that sentence. This should be no different!

Response by PFC Greg Ortiz made Oct 5 at 2015 7:56 AM

2015-10-05T07:56:01-04:00

Unfortunately that is the law. The only way to fix this is for the state legislature to address this issue. I hope the state of Arizona fixes this.

Response by SGT Andrew Chapman made Oct 5 at 2015 10:58 AM

2015-10-05T10:58:06-04:00

Maybe I am being naive on this but why wouldn't a convicted felon not lose his rights on this subject?

Response by MSG John Delmonico made Oct 5 at 2015 11:03 AM

2015-10-05T11:03:46-04:00

Let's see, I came back from Iraq, wife was having an affair, we got divorced and I have been paying 48.9 % of every check for the past 8 years. Complete BS...Maybe now that women make a career out of the military, people will start listening how jacked up this law really is....I worked hard fory retirement, my ex does not deserve 1/2 of anything!

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Oct 5 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-10-05T14:43:09-04:00

I got my divorce in OK, and was faced with paying my ex a pro rated amount of money for the rest of her life even though I hadn't made it to 20, she hadn't been married to me for 10 years, and we had been separated longer than we were together. So this while vile and very unfair I could see happening.

Response by SPC Johnny Velazquez, PhD made Oct 5 at 2015 2:45 PM

2015-10-05T14:45:40-04:00

Why would this be fair? He committed the crime, and will be there for a long time. She, on the other hand, served her country. Why should she be punished for her commitment, and reward him for his crime?

Response by LTC Michael Murphy made Oct 5 at 2015 2:45 PM

2015-10-05T14:45:51-04:00

I agree that it's crappy, but I don't recall a 'morals clause' in the act. IF there was one a WHOLE lot less spouses would be collecting half the veterans retirement.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 5 at 2015 3:02 PM

2015-10-05T15:02:18-04:00

For a red state, AZ is a hatchet man state for veterans. I got divorced here and it was a nightmare. I pay $1650 a month to a woman who's only ailment that keeps her from working is her sense of entitlement. 100% combat disabled and on my umpteenth surgery trying to survive on disability and the judge says, and I quote, "I know your pay isn't subject to garnishment. I'm not garnishing it. I'm saying that if you don't pay what I tell you, you will find yourself in jail." Pinal County is like a corrupt town from the movie 'Roadhouse.' The Sherriff and the Judge are actual brothers. No problem there, right?

Response by SSG John Erny made Oct 5 at 2015 3:04 PM

2015-10-05T15:04:29-04:00

Hmmm, where is Bubba when you need him? Just sayin'