Do you think having a baby hinders a female's career progression?

SGT Nia Chiaraluce — Thu, 12 May 2016 11:24:27 -0400

There is much discussion regarding women and equal pay in business, more importantly how pregnancy can further complicate that. Being a member of an organization where I am paid the same as my male counterparts the only parallel I can draw is the pregnancy aspect. Are we as female soldiers treated the same or different once we break the news to or Chain of Command RP?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 11:56 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 11:56:37 -0400

Women are not treated the same as men on the aspect of promotions and evaluations, they actual have some benefits over their male counterparts. Promotions are based on many factors such as PT tests and height and weight where women are favored by having lower requirements for higher scores. Its not a big difference until you get to looking at it from a competitive promotion standpoint. Two people attending a board one male one female they are both equally competent in their respective jobs with equal experience and training. Boards the results from a board will usually come down to factors as PT scores. The female will have an edge over the male because they are held to lower standards than that of males. When it comes to pregnancy I don't believe that it is necessarily looked at as bad by the chain of command that your having a child, but it depends on the situation. We have all heard of stories of women getting pregnant just before deployments to avoid going. I have seen explosions of pregnant women at previous units before leaving to Afghanistan a few times. Pregnancy takes Soldiers away from their units during PT which is fine unless that Soldier is in a leadership position. It's taking them away from their soldiers to go to appointments. Then birth takes the Soldier away from their Soldiers and their unit and training afterwards. So it's not that it's bad that you get pregnant but what employer military or otherwise is going to be excited about loosing an employee for so long. So yes that will effect your getting promoted. It's all about the choices that women make when it comes to family or career. Just like the supposed pay gap that you mentioned between men and women. Women often CHOOSE to spend more time with family and their children but men often times choose career over family time therefore getting those promotions faster, working later and longer at the office. Also looking at the pay gap women are more prone to taking specialty jobs that pay less such as with doctors. Yes they are a doctor but their specialty field like OB/GYN and Pediatrics are lower paying specialties than Neurosurgeon or Obstetrics and that contributes to this supposed pay gap.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made May 12 at 2016 12:28 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 12 May 2016 12:28:47 -0400

It will be interesting if others like me who sat a number of boards weigh in. So just from the Navy side I suspect there's a similar spin with the other services. If there is a hindrance, it doesn't happen at the boards. The stuff a reviewer/briefer sees doesn't include marital status, have kids, etc. The precepts are pretty strict regarding discrimination and there's typically a demographic review post board to see if anything jumps out. Also biased briefing to the rest of the board tends to jump out when looking at the screens in the tank. Also if you don't get picked up in the first round, a different reviewing officer grades you next. A subsequent skewing of grading jumps out in the tank as well. I remember back in the day there was a draconian process where a minority, female, etc. who wasn't selected record was compared to the lowest selected record outside the board. So the result was not only no but hell no. Then there was a time when the board did the process prior to finalizing. So it's what the senior reporting signs off on and what their grading average is, etc. that gets looked at. The opportunity for bias more readily exists with those who input the record that gets looked at.

SGT Private RallyPoint Member does point out one thing about pregnancies near deployment time. Most are unavoidable as hopefully you get pregnant after you return to homeport if you're on a deployment cycle. Fighting infertility , you'll take the first pregnancy you can. I do recall the pregnancy rate of single female intel types stationed out on Adak was much higher than the norm presumably because they didn't want to be there anymore. Some are accidental, some unreported rape, etc. The Navy dealt with it by increasing the cycle rate for turnover as essentially a cost of doing business.

Urban legends and myths are hard to beat down because people want to put the "blame" somewhere and the boards are an easy target because they're far away and out of your control. If you want to see real bias on hiring and promotion, the commercial sector is much more uncontrolled with little recourse vs. the military services.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made May 12 at 2016 12:55 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Thu, 12 May 2016 12:55:09 -0400

I think women should be treated the same as the guys, even when they are pregnant. Give them time off after the child is born, and then let the mother transition back into her job at the pace set by thee doctor.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 1:00 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 13:00:30 -0400

Regardless of wanting to be treating equally, once you tell your chain of command you're pregnant they park you behind a desk and might as well wrap you in bubble wrap. When I was pregnant at work, being 7-8 months along, I was still doing everything I could for my shop but was continuously told to sit down and rest. Now as far as returning to work after pregnancy, that's a different story. It's different for every female. I worked out throughout my pregnancy and after delivery as soon as I could. I also returned to my unit to participate in PT with my postpartum profile waived simply because I felt I didn't need to have my hand held in post partum PT to get back into shape. Not just that, I also have schools I want and need to attend to progress in my career. Again, every pregnancy is different for every female. Bottom line, females will always be viewed differently pregnant or not.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 1:10 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 13:10:59 -0400

I can only reply based on what I have seen: active duty and parenting is not compatible so yes it hinders if not ends their career progression. If you're a single parent doing great in the army it is at the expense of your parenting commitment- and vice versus.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made May 12 at 2016 1:16 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Thu, 12 May 2016 13:16:49 -0400

I doubt it in the military. On the other hand, in the private industry, it depends on your value to the company. I bent over backwards to save a valuable employee, male or female. When the personal life takes precedence over job responsibilities, it will impair advancement. I suppose that is why I fill in for my daughter and son-in-law, so their careers are minimally impacted

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 2:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 14:10:04 -0400

Hmm... I think the options to your original question are a little bit limiting. Does it hinder a female's career progression? It can. There are specific physical limitations we face when we become pregnant. We cannot attend certain schools, it essentially puts some things on hold, a self-imposed hold. These are the outcomes we are aware of when signing our name on the dotted line. Is there a stigma? Possibly, but strong leadership should be able to counter that. Peers sent to boards before them while pregnant? What kind of board? Month? Quarter? Competition? Promotion? If it's a competitive board with physical components then that makes sense. If it's a promotion board, that's supervisory discretion. That goes back to leadership, counseling, leadership potential, it's not a simple "timeframe" entitlement.

What I am about to type is not directed at the original question (which is a valid question! :) ), I'm speaking on personal experience and discussions I have had with my own female Soldiers in the past.

I have been in for 13 years. I have had two children within that service period, one during my 9th year of service and one during my 12th year.

I have always been a very career-focused Soldier. I enjoy my service and what I do. I have always ensured my training is up to date, my PT score is decent (not minimum), my work ethic is strong, my personal life has minimal issues, and I use initiative and action consistently allowing my supervisors to strongly rely on me. I've attended NCOES in a timely manner. When opportunities are afforded to me I take them, and never put things off for a later date.

When I became pregnant many things were placed on hold. There were schools I wanted to go to, but they were physical. There were competitions I wanted to participate in, but I had that profile. However, I was not flagged for anything before becoming pregnant so I focused on what I could do. That's an important thing for a pregnant Soldier to focus on - What it is they CAN do, because, back to that stigma piece, ...you will have enough people focused on what you can't. Your career will only be as "paused" as you let it.

Things you can do: Make sure you are healthy throughout your pregnancy. Eat right. Exercise (pregnant women CAN exercise and run, just make sure you discuss it with your provider). This will make postpartum recovery easier. Take college courses. Go to schools that DONT have physical requirements (I earned my instructor certification during one of these pregnancies and received my SQI 8 identifier). Complete military ed. Volunteer outside of work, document your hours. Maintain a strong work ethic. Do not use pregnancy as an excuse (this does not include genuine medical concerns).

Postpartum: don't look at postpartum PT as a punishment. It is an OPPORTUNITY :) NCO's in charge of this are there to help, they have 6 months (4 including maternity leave) to get you back into APFT shape. They have your career and best interest in mind. That being said, you can go to pt all day, but you have to put in the effort to get the return. If you are having issues, do not wait until your 190 day mark, when you have to take a pt test to speak up, let someone know early! If you need a nutrition consult, do it! You WILL be TIRED. New parents are ALWAYS TIRED! :) Work hard at finding a balance that works for you and your family. Remember what you are working towards. Make sure you prioritize and stay focused on your goals.

It will eventually all fall into place. If you are tracking, you will keep tracking. Do what you can. Control what you can control. Find a strong, successful female mentor who has done it before and can show you the ways. Surround yourself with successful like-minded people who will call you out when they see you start to sink and are willing to jump in and guide you back.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made May 12 at 2016 2:49 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 12 May 2016 14:49:10 -0400

I don't believe a baby hinders career progression. I believe it has more to do with the individual wanting to either focus on their career or be a stay at home Mom. I mentioned this on a previous topic, but I've encountered pregnant Marines that would come into work every day with Super size extra value meals for every chow period and I've also encountered pregnant Marines who were still running during unit PT. Guess which one got back into standards. Another thing to consider is a lot of our job is physical and it's hard to stay ahead of the game if you get exempt from PT for pregnancy reasons.

For instance, martial arts classes require you to be full duty and participate in intense PT. Resident PME courses require you to be full duty and participate in PT.

So no, I don't believe the baby is what hinders a female's career. If she wants the career, she'll stay in peak shape throughout her pregnancy. She'll either get her physical PME done before she gets pregnant or as soon as she gets cleared for full duty so she can stay competitive.

If she doesn't care about her career, she already knows where the McDonald's drive-thru is located.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 3:05 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 May 2016 15:05:09 -0400

Having a baby doesn't hinder your career. Not having the right attitude, not taking care of Soldiers, and not doing your job hinder your Military career.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made May 13 at 2016 12:49 AM

SPC George Rudenko — Fri, 13 May 2016 00:49:31 -0400

It absolutely should not