Do you think evaluations are fair in the Navy?

2014-03-16T19:16:48-04:00

Do you think the way evaluation ranking are fair in the navy? Ive heard people say this person deserves a EP over others just because he is currently eligible for the next pay grade. I know alot more goes into it, it just seems like if your not part of the GOBC then your at a disadvantage no matter what you do.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2014 9:37 AM

2014-03-17T09:37:34-04:00

What's an EP?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2014 2:38 PM

2014-04-01T14:38:16-04:00

It's flawed, as I assume every other branch's eval system is flawed. The biggest gripe I have is that most command have the mind set that once a member gets an EP, he or she should never be bumped down unless they do something adverse. Even if a newer member hits the deckplate running and owns his or her programs, they may not get an EP due to quota restrictions. They try to save face by putting "only an MP due to quota restrictions" and that may help during a board, but it can still screw over the member when it comes to their PMA during an advancement exam. There are a ton of other reason the system is flawed, but it would take a 20 page point paper to outline them all.... sometimes you just gotta go with the flow.

Response by PO1 William Bargar made Apr 14 at 2014 2:28 PM

2014-04-14T14:28:52-04:00

Depends, if the UPPER CHAIN-OF-COMMAND is fair and NON-BIAS then the system will be fair. IF not, then "NO"! Also, with that said the commands with smaller numbers of people make it not easy! The system has flaws, this EP thing......If you were an EP last year and did nothing wrong to lose it.....then you get an AUTOMATIC PASS to another EP, regardless what your other co-workers do......"UNFAIR"! I'm NO LONGER active duty since 1998, but I remember in 1996 when the current eval system cam outI had a BIG PROBLEM with it.......I REALLY THINK TO THIS DAY IT COSTED ME FROM MAKING CHIEF! Nuff said.......

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Apr 14 at 2014 2:31 PM

2014-04-14T14:31:50-04:00

No. I have seen too many times the people that work their tuchus' off, get lower scores than the people that sit in the shop as to be seen by the higher ups. Also, I think there is too much personal baggage in the way the higher ups evlauate

Response by SCPO Stephen Ibanez made Apr 15 at 2014 12:38 PM

2014-04-15T12:38:07-04:00

Yes, the system is flawed.  Always has been and always will be so long as humans are writing evals.  It's exactly the same way in civilian life, so you might as well learn to deal with it now. Here are some suggestions to help you get the evals you deserve:   1. Document everything you do, and why it was significant.   2. Use numbers to demonstrate how well you did something. If you did something that saved the command money (materials, man-hours, etc.), say how much it saved.   3. Learn to (truly) collaborate and communicate effectively with others.  You may view this as "being a politician" but it's how things get done - in and out of the military.  Working well with others is a skill that is highly valued in any organization worth being a member of. Embrace reality.  What "is" and what "should be" are rarely the same.  The system is what it is, and all your frustration with it isn't going to change it.  Make the system work for you.

Response by PO1 Robert Szekely made Apr 20 at 2014 10:40 PM

2014-04-20T22:40:08-04:00

Although I agree with the consensus that no evaluation system is perfect (per Deming, they shouldn't be scheduled or formalized, but documented when someone does a really good job--if all evals were like LOAs, they might work better).

It's a zero-sum game, where there are some winners and some losers by percentile. I know they were trying to address perceived inequities--i.e., almost everyone was a 4.0 Sailor under the previous system--but that's what happens when bureaucrats get their hands on statistical measures--not realizing that statistics are a measure of probability--and not actuality nor certainty. The system can--and often is--used for reprisals against Sailors who do what's morally right, but politically undesirable, and the system is too easily 'gamed' by people who see it for what it is. Also, using PT scores and breakpoints for who can be promoted and who can't is simply idiotic--when you consider that the fitness standards were created by some bureaucrat at BUPERS, and really have nothing to do with fitness. Standards of health and suitability to serve should always be squarely under the cognizance of BUMED, and BUPERS should have no say in them. The right would be for each command to be given their percentage of promotions, and let all promotions be 'field promotions' but supervisors who are actually witness to a Sailors' performance.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 11:31 AM

2014-05-02T11:31:43-04:00

As an Army officer who has served a lot in tri-service settings, I have HUGE issues with the Navy eval system. It encourages sailors to basically screw over each other because it's a competition. I've found it to be completely opposite and disruptive of overall mission objectives. In fact, mission can be compromised because you have junior officers trying to back stab each other to ensure they get top ranking. In the Army, we say "one team, one fight". From what I've seen in the Navy, it's "defeat your peers and you win".

Response by LCDR Jeffery Dixon made May 2 at 2014 2:50 PM

2014-05-02T14:50:37-04:00

They are not fair. I am not certain they were meant to be.

They are a "sell" effort on behalf of the evaluator. I always looked at treating each sailor equally, but when I graded them I made one decision. Is this person growing, learning, leading and setting the right example. If the answer was yes, I would write to eval to sell them to the next Commander.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2014 4:23 AM

2014-05-08T04:23:08-04:00

As most others have said, the eval system is bullshit. My first veal as an E-6 was written out to make me look like an all-star, yet I was a P. The fact that guys were getting EP's based only on the fact the were LPO's (and doing less than a shit show of a job at it).

Also, they way that senior leadership tries to justify it leads a lot of sailors to thinking that their work ethic is worthless and the more ass-kissing they do, the more the will succeed. I would get yelled at for writing my guys evals up and being honest if they where a POS. Every time this happened I was told I couldn't do that cause the command didn't want to see those kinds of things.

Ok, that is the end of my rant.

Response by PO3 David Packham made May 14 at 2014 1:27 PM

2014-05-14T13:27:59-04:00

I think it depends on the evaluator, if you have an evaluator, CPO, PO1, whatever, who has a grudge against you, you might not get as far of a shake as if you have an evaluator that is unbiased

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2014 12:03 PM

2014-05-30T12:03:05-04:00

I would say that the eval system is fair in that it looks at various aspects of an individuals preformance. The problem I've seen over the years is that the people writing the eval are the ones who need to be more fair. Giving someone an EP simply because they're eligible for the next paygrade or because the reporting senior likes the sailor is BS. That sailor should be getting an EP becuase they know their rate, they're an outstanding sailor, and they'rere an asset to the command.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2014 1:54 AM

2014-06-08T01:54:52-04:00

If the comments block went away and all you had to go by was a check in a block and an average I feel it would be more accurate. That comment block is where the GOBC comes into play. That block should only be used for special circumstances where the sailor has to explain a specific answer...such as a mast or adverse mark on a trait.

Response by SFC A.M. Drake made Jun 8 at 2014 2:36 AM

2014-06-08T02:36:49-04:00

For non-Navy folks what is an EP and P as far as evaluations go?

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2014 5:21 PM

2014-07-03T17:21:59-04:00

Is the eval system perfect? No. Fair, yes, if it is done right. Most times I would say the GOBC is simply the figment of imagination in personnel to explain why they didn't break out. Does it exist? Yes at some level, "Ducks promote ducks" as LCDR Snodgrass wrote in his "Keep a Weather Eye on the Horizon" paper. Most people see being involved in the command as sucking up, however this is what you are here for, The Navy. This isn't a 9-5 Job at Starbucks. When everyone shows up to work and does there job, it is not enough to break out. Someone who gets involved, does the Command collateral duties, gets their degree, makes sure the packouts happen, gets the Duty Sections organized, Get involved with their sailors careers (not just the ones below them but outside the workcenter too) and represent the squadron day in and day out WILL be recognized and break out from their peers.

Now to say there is a GOBC in some commands that they protect each other no matter what when they screw up, yes that exists sparingly. Unfortunately it comes often times at other personnels careers, and if you feel you are getting mistreated because you're not one of the Ducks, The Navy has a grievence system and the Investigator General to address those issues, as they will not be tolerated.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 13 at 2014 4:44 PM

2014-12-13T16:44:21-05:00

I've written evaluations in each of the services' systems. Objectively the best system is the Marines' then the Army's then the Navy's and lastly, the Air Force's. Though I do hear that military civilians' are even worse than the AF's.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Jan 2 at 2015 8:33 AM

2015-01-02T08:33:51-05:00

The evaluation system is fair when you have a good chain of command who can put personnel feelings aside. With that said that only happened at my last command with the last 2 years thete. Our system is flawed because there is the GOBC. The GOBC does not have to run how we think if there is a true leader they can set personal feelings aside and do what is right.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 17 at 2015 3:05 PM

2015-08-17T15:05:34-04:00

The good ones I received, YES, definitely. Not so much the ones I received early on in my career.