Do you support building a wall along the Mexican/American border?

CPT Jack Durish — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 12:38:51 -0500

It's a hot topic these days. The President wants it and claims that most Americans agree. The Democrats in Congress don't want it and claim that most American agree. It seems that the verdict is in but I'm sure the source will be attacked (which is going to be fun to watch inasmuch as Harvard and the Washington Times who report most Americans in favor of the wall, are typically progressive proponents...)
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/23/roughly-80-of-all-voters-say-us-needs-secure-borde/?fbclid=IwAR140PAX1Pu7_Ear5GgnGl6NfW3_m5k_B8hFNEX4dIdS8WwTlkekjdn8N58

Roughly 80% of all voters say U.S. needs secure borders, including 68% of Democrats: Harvard poll...

A wide-reaching new poll conducted by Harvard University reveals that majorities of U.S. voters — including Democrats — appear to agree with many of President Trump’s most basic beliefs about immigration.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Jan 8 at 2019 12:39 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 12:39:50 -0500

I am in favor of a wall or barrier of some sort where practical

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Jan 8 at 2019 12:45 PM

LTC Eugene Chu — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 12:45:08 -0500

Old clip of John Oliver from YouTube. Although illegal immigration is an issue, constructing a border wall along US/Mexico area has major financial, legal and logistical problems.

https://youtu.be/vU8dCYocuyI

Border Wall: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

Donald Trump wants to build a wall on the U.S-Mexico border. Is his plan feasible? Connect with Last Week Tonight online... Subscribe to the Last Week Tonigh...

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Jan 8 at 2019 12:50 PM

SGT Christopher Hayden — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 12:50:47 -0500

There is 1,279 miles of border that doesn't even have a fence yet, let alone some kind of concrete wall. It's a huge waste of money, and will likely never happen anyway. And even if it did, people would find a way to get over it, around it, through it, etc.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 1:20 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:20:45 -0500

There should be a barrier to demark the border, more importantly there needs to be clear an enforced immigration laws.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 8 at 2019 1:27 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:27:09 -0500

CPT Jack Durish POTUS has committed himself with coming out with a border wall during the campaign. He cut to the COA without mission analysis or defining the problem. What is the definition of a secured border? If the mission is to secure the border, Is it to prevent 90% of land based infiltration? 70%? It's like arguing about Destroy, neutralize , harass, or annoy in Artillery effects ala FM 1.02. What is the mission and what is the problem we are solving?

A couple thoughts
- an obstacle (like a wall) is not an obstacle unless it is covered by direct fire, observation, or indirect fire. It's sculpture. Unobserved and uncovered, it will be breached or bypassed. A standard 12' chainlink fence is like a 15 second deterrent.
- obstacles block, slow, disrupt, Turn, or canalize the people on the downrange side of it. These effects dictate where the defenders go. You can't be everywhere at once. It makes possible the defense against many by the few.
- if we were to secure the border to prevent 90% of land based infiltration (without obstacles), you'd need mutually supporting guard posts within visual range (couple hundred yards) of each other with area QRFs to handle surges...24/7. Can Customs and Border Patrol man all that? What would that look like? What would it cost? Sustainment costs? I see in my mind's eye Picket Shacks like in Pakistan. Desolate guard shacks covered by a lone soldier and his family living in a 4x4 shack. Where do I sign up, right?
- what would we do with all the intercepted people? They'd be detention and vetting Facilities. Every time the USG holds someone in one of these, it is vast resources to turn them out. Hearings, petitions, asylum requests, simply figuring out who you have, caring for them while you do this etc. it's an ulcer for the USG, exploited by the Loose immigration lobby.
- I can see why someone would advocate for a wall with sensors to better use Border Patrol, ICE, and DHHS and DOS assets if the wall blocked, turned, and canalized land infiltration to specific places to be vetted, intercepted, and processed.
- to make a dry eyed decision, I'd like to see a dollars per intercept annual cost of the prorated construction, sustainment, and operations versus the cost incurred if we don't (all the things the administration says are costs at the local, state, and federal levels). Otherwise we are evaluating the goodness or badness of visceral emotional response.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 1:48 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:48:32 -0500

CPT Jack Durish I would like to see our immigration laws enforced by whatever means is the most effective.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Jan 8 at 2019 1:56 PM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 13:56:27 -0500

The wall in the US-Mexico border is a solution to the wrong problem. The issue is more about policy and enforcement. Close to 50% of those who are illegally in the country came in legally. They overstayed their visas for one reason or another.

Additionally, it is cheaper to fly from Mexico to Canada and then walk south. Canadian entry requirements are different in Canada than in the US.

In the lifecycle of any construction, the operation & maintenance is the most expensive. The wall becomes a liability to US taxpayers.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 2:20 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 14:20:02 -0500

The 4,000 terrorists Huckabee and Pence misspoke (WH) weren't captured at the southern border, as implied. Rather, at airports. Less than 20 at southern borders (CBP or State Dept). Then, they misspoke about 3,000 special interest. Oh, that's anyone from a country where a terrorist ever came from.
Without knowing where the less than 20 allegedly entered, the argument for a wall is weak.
What is the plan for airports? Biggest risk should get most funding, right?
What about seaports?
How about a fact based threat and risk assessment, rather than lies, misrepresentation of facts, and then, tell us where OUR money should be spent.
So far, this unscientific poll clearly doesn't reflect a clear majority as much as the Administration claims.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Jan 8 at 2019 2:47 PM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 14:47:37 -0500

A waste of money. A wall will not address the primary problem.
However, we do absolutely need comprehensive immigration reform.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 4:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 16:19:47 -0500

I'm for it, we have a big ocean here that keeps border security, most refugees can't afford a plane ticket. Lol
But, the ones that get here are the one's all on Food Stamps, Section-8, and cause most of the law breaking problems on Guam.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jan 8 at 2019 5:51 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 17:51:46 -0500

The term "wall" is misleading in my opinion. We need a barrier to keep people from walking, driving, or tunneling across the US Border with Mexico. In some places it might be a classic wall, an enhanced fence, electronic surveillance, or all of the above. Physical barriers do work as long as they are difficult to defeat or circumnavigate. We also need the Border Patrol officers to respond to attempted or actual violation of the barrier. The inter-German border and particularly the "Berlin Wall" were effective in keeping most East Germans in and West Germans out.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 6:25 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:25:31 -0500

Democrats in Congress are hypocrites. Some of them supported a wall, fence, even tougher immigration laws, but since a Republican is in office, they are suddenly against a wall, fence or whatever. Do I support a wall/fence? Yes, it is a deterrent, it will delay people from crossing over. Will it prevent everything? No, but it can and will help reduce the number of people coming in illegally, drugs crossing the border, human trafficking, etc. It is just like having a wall or fence around your yard, swimming pool, military installations, and so on.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 8 at 2019 7:43 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 19:43:23 -0500

I don't know as there is a war of facts.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 8 at 2019 7:47 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 19:47:47 -0500

A "Wall" is not a practical solution to the solution as presented.

Unfortunately, we cannot people to adequate define what the actual problem is OR what they want the solution to be.

We at RallyPoint are MILITARY. Tell us what the $&^%$&^% military MISSION is. Tell us what the OBJECTIVE is.

Not one of these $*%^(*^ politicians (on either side of the aisle) is able to state either of those things in plain English. They keep using terms like "Secure the border" which is frankly a BS term. It's like telling the Air Force and the Marines to secure a Building. The Air Force will but it under a 5 year lease with an option to buy while the Marines will lay down suppressing fire not allowing anyone to enter OR exit.

Or they use terms like "control immigration"... their previous track record says "stupid or liar" on that.

I'm sorry, but anyone who trusts the US Government to build a wall needs to report to the SACO immediately for a piss test. We can't even maintain our roads. It's a running joke there are two season in Chicago, winter and construction.... there's a train from nowhere to nowhere in Las Vegas.... There's an overbudget bullet train in LA that is approaching $100 billion....

End rant... I'm sorry, I normally reserve my rants for the VHA.... but this wall issue is driving me bloody nuts. It's political theater. It was never meant to be built. It's not going to keep anyone out. It's a waste of time

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 8:45 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 20:45:10 -0500

I don't know about a wall. I do favor effective border security, but a wall is a fixed obstacle and I think that people will find a way to get through that obstacle. I think it is hard to defend at the border itself. Some of the defend-in-depth tactics, such as vehicle checkpoints farther in from the border make sense from a purely practical point of view, but they are also seen as intrusive and abrasive by some citizens who get stopped at them. Civil libertarians raise good questions about the legality of some of these stops. So there is a balance that needs to be struck between security and liberty, and when we have to choose, I like to default toward freedom, barring any specific and compelling reason to the contrary.

I favor holding employers responsible for knowingly hiring people who are illegally in the country. At the same time, I also favor making it easier for people to enter legally if they are here to perform useful work and have the intention and ability to comply with the law while they do that. I am absolutely against sanctuary cities and local governments actively seeking to obstruct federal immigration authorities.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2019 1:31 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 01:31:14 -0500

The fence is an easy thing to sell politically. It’s an easy thing for someone who doesn’t follow the issue very closely to say, ‘Oh, well, that will just solve everything, build the fence.’ The fence doesn’t solve the problem.

During his address this evening, the President again tried to compare a border wall to walls around individual homes. Unfortunately, they just aren’t comparable. Walls and fences around our homes provide an affordable, false sense of security. If people want in, they’re still getting in. But, they look good, a family with no debt other than mortgage can afford one, and they make us feel a little better.

A border wall will cost who knows how many bazillions of dollars. It won’t look good. And at that price, it needs to actually be effective (more than just making us feeling better). And it won’t be. There hasn’t been a wall invented that can’t be defeated by an extension ladder.

Oh, by the way. The first paragraph. That’s a quote from Mick Mulvaney in 2015. He’s the acting White House Chief of staff. He gave that quote during an interview when he was a Congressman from South Carolina. The topic? The potential Presidential candidacy of Mr. Trump and his overly simplistic view of immigration.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Jan 9 at 2019 6:32 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 06:32:45 -0500

A wall is part of a layered approach to securing the border. It will not work alone, neither will drones or human patrols or other electronic means. You need all of them. The wall, drones, humans, seismic devices etc. etc. etc.

Response by MAJ Grant Gutkowski made Jan 9 at 2019 1:54 PM

MAJ Grant Gutkowski — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 13:54:50 -0500

These guys might be on to something...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXYM_zBVF7Q

Tecate "Beer Wall" Commercial

Response by SPC Douglas Bolton made Jan 14 at 2019 3:38 PM

SPC Douglas Bolton — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:38:49 -0500

CPT Jack Durish Interesting results. It doesn't matter if people want it or don't want it. It is going to happen.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jan 14 at 2019 7:13 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:13:27 -0500

Yes, I believe this needs to be done and done right. As I've mentioned before, when you lose a family member because the current system isn't working then you come up new solutions. Both me and my wife are for the wall - build the wall! It was a campaing promise that President Trump made and that is one of many reasons we voted for him. My mother was a democrat for ever, and now she is a republican and voted for President Trump after the failed policies of the last 8 years under Obama. She is thoroughly disgusted with the way the Democrats are acting the way the media is treating this President - she is 83 years old. Thanks for taking on this issue CPT Jack Durish I will say it again and again, unless you have first hand knowledge of the issue on the border or have lost someone who was killed by and illegal alien, that was deported, and got right back inot this country 60 days later and is living free, getting paid under the table, and paying no taxes, then you haven't experienced or really understand the true issue or the pain many families have gone through with these criminals that we've let in over many decades. We've got somebody now that doesn't follow the DC Crowd and has the balls to make a difference. That's all I have to say about that!