Do you need a verbal and 2 counselings to get an Article 15 for being late?

2019-02-10T11:54:14-05:00

Response by SSG Keven Lahde made Feb 10 at 2019 11:56 AM

2019-02-10T11:56:24-05:00

I think it depends on the individual. If it continues to happen, then write that individual up. But you must have a paper trail and documentation of it happening.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2019 12:01 PM

2019-02-10T12:01:26-05:00

Don't believe that barracks lawyer stuff about two or three counseling statements equaling an Article 15.
Your command doesn't need any counseling statements to give you an article 15, and conversely, you can receive numerous counseling statements and never receive an Article 15.

Moral of the story: commanders have broad latitude to use common sense in administration of UCMJ. Don't do dumb stuff; if you act like a child you'll get treated like one.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Feb 10 at 2019 12:08 PM

2019-02-10T12:08:31-05:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member no. They could go to Article 15 right off the bat. It depends. As a matter of practice, attempts are made to work with a soldier through administrative tools such as counseling and training. There is no two writtens + a verbal = Article 15.

"Being late" could mean many things. FTR Failure to repair i.e. You walked up to formation after they yelled fall in or 10minutes late for CQ as examples. AWOL, hours late when you were directed to be there. Missing Movememt if you were "late" for a unit movement or missed your flight for TDY or official movement. In some serious cases Shirking important duty such as combat or deployment by your tardiness.

Response by SFC Michael Arabian made Feb 10 at 2019 1:03 PM

2019-02-10T13:03:44-05:00

I was always told that a counseling statement was like many other thing a tool to help mode your Soldiers. Every month I got one telling me the good things as well as the bad thing that I might have done and how I could improve on both the good and bad. As I moved up in the ranks I tried to continue to do this with the Soldiers entrusted to my care. During my time moving up and down the ranks I made some not so wise decision and paid for them did it require a counseling statement “No”, but they have my file or my Soldiers file if it came down to having to request an Article 15

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 10 at 2019 1:13 PM

2019-02-10T13:13:56-05:00

Maybe you should read and learn the UCMJ- 1 damn time is all it takes, no counseling, no warnings- No 2nd chances. If you are guilty then you can be hammered period!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2019 2:11 PM

2019-02-10T14:11:50-05:00

As the others stated, no.
I noticed the tag "AIT." If you're reclaiming and are in that environment, more will be expected. If so, all of the privates are looking.
Regardless, it is likely based on your overall performance, and even times you may have been late, but not counseled.
Hope it's a Summarized, and learn your lesson.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 11 at 2019 5:26 AM

2019-02-11T05:26:25-05:00

No. Generally it's done that way, unless a soldier is a sh*tbag.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Feb 11 at 2019 11:46 AM

2019-02-11T11:46:21-05:00

No, the hammer can fall the first time.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2019 12:13 PM

2019-02-11T12:13:15-05:00

Although usually I advise commanders to counsel once before doing something like that, it's definitely not required.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2019 7:23 PM

2019-02-11T19:23:55-05:00

I don’t need anything. I always had a great clock and a back-up plan. PPPPPP!!!

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Feb 12 at 2019 10:15 AM

2019-02-12T10:15:09-05:00

You can get an article 15 for a 1st offense if your commander so desires. You probably won't, but you can.