Do You Buy This? A Unique form of Combat Stress for our Drone Pilots (Remotely Piloted Aircraft)???

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:07:16 -0400

Obviously, despite my efforts not to.... I see the world, and DOD, from a ground Soldiers perspective. And, I suspect there is stress in all sorts of jobs.

I understand pilots (actual and remotely piloted aircraft - drones) have to face different dangers than I did, as well as live the the decisions they make and the damage and collateral damage of their strikes. But, I can't see this as a combat stress. And, I have never walked in those shoes either.

I did considerable research in grad school on shell shock, combat stress, combat related stress disorder, and the PTSD (the current term), and I am not sure I know enough about this new term, but I know when I read the article I actually laughed out loud... As, I just can't see this - feel this.

I know I lived by (shared a duplex) an F-15 pilot in Europe who would fly "Allied Force" Sorties and be back home each night... drinking... I know B2s fly from Whiteman and come back in a day... And, I know whenever I deployed, they were progressively longer... and conditions were not up to the standards my Air Force brothers consider adequate... Again, likely from my very jaded perspective is what probably made laugh out loud.

I also know I have PTSD, and TBI, and that I attended a lot of memorial ceremonies, presented a lot of Purple Hearts, and dealt with more than one incident of collateral damage.

So, help me understand... Because I want to understand this from the USAF perspective.

Claire McCaskill is my senator, and I actually sat in her office several times with my boss, and got scuffed up on issues in the Army and Fort Leonard Wood. She is a huge military advocate, and an unspoken watchdog and critic too.

But, again, I not seeing this one.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/06/24/sen-claire-mccaskill-wants-pentagon-to-address-new-form-of-combat-stress/29248023/

Sen. Claire McCaskill wants Pentagon to address new form of combat stress

Sen. Claire McCaskill has asked Air Force leaders to address a "unique form of combat stress" suffered by drone pilots engaged in remote surveillance and killing U.S. enemies.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jun 25 at 2015 11:17 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:17:51 -0400

I guess stress come in all forms!

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 25 at 2015 11:20 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:20:32 -0400

I'm with you sir, not sure where this is directly heading. I get it that anyone performing a combat operation/mission can present with some kind of stress. Hell driving to work can be stress enough for some of us. Killing by dropping a bomb from the air is a different kind of stress than seeing the guy eye to eye at the working end of your M-16. Both have the moral dilemma of killing attached to them. I think that may be more the direct issue then the "combat stress" of a drone pilot. I also get it that we have to be perceptive of and adaptable to the changing face of warfare and that roles like a remote drone pilot are new and the stress and job data are not as compiled as that of the infantryman and other BOG MOSs. To say this is a genuine concern at this time, I'm not sure if this qualifies.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Jun 25 at 2015 11:34 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:34:57 -0400

I am with you on this one, buddy. I just don't see it.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 25 at 2015 11:39 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:39:01 -0400

I guess pulling the trigger is just as much a stressor as getting shot at.
Do F-16 or B2 pilot / weapons officers get PTSD?
Other side of the coin .. these folks visit death on people but never face it themselves.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jun 25 at 2015 11:41 AM

LTC Stephen C. — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:41:07 -0400

COL Charles Williams, I'm certain that I don't know enough about this to provide an educated and intelligent response. However, the surrounding circumstances seem markedly different than what you encountered, and I can't say that I disagree with you.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 25 at 2015 11:50 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:50:46 -0400

Sir,
I understand where you are coming from, but I had a buddy of mine who is a Corpsman (FMF, Combat Aircrew). He's now doing EMT for a North Carolina Fire Department, and recently did a few classes on PTS.

One of the things he ran into was the high instances of PTS in Dispatchers, in addition to the Responders. The Dispatchers aren't physically present at the scene, but they take the calls, hear what is going on, and are interacting with the people until the Responders arrive.

One of the "unique" issues they ran into is that they have no ability to affect the outcome of the situation. They are essentially in a "sit & wait" mode, while the events unfold, but they are "seeing" everything as it happens. There is a certain "helplessness" to the situation.

I'm not saying drone pilots are the same, but each person that interacts with continuous operations has a different level of stress. Control tower operators for flight ops tend to be wound a little tight. Dispatchers have a different kind of stress. Drone pilots have to switch from On to Off instantly, whereas ground operators have a different tempo.

I think this stress is more akin to our MP/Police brethren where they are interacting with the dregs of society during the day, and expected to act like everything is normal during the night. If we think about it like that, it makes a little more sense.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 11:53 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:53:20 -0400

IDK, COL Charles Williams
I could see them having some PTSD if that is the question you are asking. This is definitely not a game on the WII or Xbox. Knowing that I am the one that caused the death of anyone would haunt me. Like you said "..as well as live (with) the decisions they make and the damage and collateral damage of their strikes." IDK. This is a tough one.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 11:54 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:54:00 -0400

Stress is part of the human condition and can be used as a tool to drive behavior. In this case, negative stress can cause you to decide this is not the job for you. Whether or not the stress is indicative of PTSD is up to a health provider who should assist in seeking proper treatment. Each case is different and I don't see a need to put out a blanket order that we need to address this specifically. Is there a regulatory limitation that mandates that PTSD only happens when physically on target? If not then this is a non-issue.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Jun 25 at 2015 12:19 PM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 12:19:21 -0400

I am also not seeing this one. Combat stress IS a unique kind of stress, but these guys aren't experiencing it, nor a "form" of it. When your pink body is not getting shot at, when you are not now or repetitively exposed to the possibility of imminent violent death, then you are not feeling combat stress.
They may be overworked, tired, bored, harassed, and even "stressed out". But Sen McCaskill accepted the speech she was handed and didn't review this one for "makes sense".

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jun 25 at 2015 12:31 PM

1LT William Clardy — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 12:31:09 -0400

Sir, I suspect that drone crews suffer from 2 sources of stress which their in-cockpit counterparts don't experience.

First is what you might consider a form of survivor's guilt. They are not sweating in fear as they watch tracers grow to the size of bowling balls before zipping (hopefully) past them, They are not facing personal danger, and in many cases they cannot even claim that they were coming to the aid of fellow soldiers under fire. They are would-be warriors who have been selected for one- and two-man firing squads, without even a blank round to offer some doubt that it was their shot which killed. Where can you find any vestige of redeeming honor in that, especially if it turns out a mistake was made? How would you cope with discovering that the "insurgent meeting" you just ripped asunder was really a wedding party with a would-have-been bride your daughter's age?

Second, unlike the CAS jet jockeys who will only see their target briefly, and even then from a distance, the drones loiter while their crews identify the target, engage it and then conduct as detailed a damage assessment as their sensors will permit. I presume that includes full-color imagery of the bodies (or body parts) of the people they just executed.

I'm not saying that these crews are feeling the same intensity of stress that ground troops must endure, but there are some very real reasons for them to feel stressed. In addition, they aren't surrounded by peers that they can look at and see that it's alright to feel the emotions they're feeling or to have reinforce the necessity of the things that they just did.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 12:40 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 12:40:30 -0400

I don't know...

I don't think you can compare ground combat stressers to that of what a pilot or UAV pilot endures. I think there is a greater case for combat pilots and PTSD... UAV pilots? I am unsure about. Perhaps the sight of ending someone's life? But not the imminent danger stress that combat pilots and ground forces endure.

Response by SSgt Dale W. made Jun 25 at 2015 12:47 PM

SSgt Dale W. — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 12:47:13 -0400

COL Charles Williams Unfortunately, I can't access the AF Times article, but did read an article in USA Today on the same subject. http://www.usatoday.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/06/24/sen-claire-mccaskill-wants-pentagon-to-address-new-form-of-combat-stress/29248023/

My initial reaction is WTF, COMBAT stress? Really? I had the same reaction in the 80's when some idiot working at the Post Office would get pissed off and shoot the place up, and hear it blamed on PTSD because sorting and delivering mail was soooooooo difficult.
Thinking about it though, and taking into account another question posed here on RP regarding drone operator burnout:
https://www.rallypoint.com/branches/air-force/answers/how-america-broke-its-drone-force
I find myself giving some validity to Sen, McCaskill's request, although I'm hesitant to classify it in my mind as combat stress. However, as any PR flack knows, throw in a good buzzword such as "combat" and the newsies will latch onto it and run with it for all it's worth. Wanting a study done on "Workplace Stress" in a military organization just doesn't grab one's attention.
When I think of combat stress for pilots, I picture the Battle of Britain; MIG Alley during Korea; sorties into Hanoi, Haiphong, etc with high concentrations of SAM's, AA and so forth.
I make no claim to have really even studied the subject, I can only use my own limited experience and reading to form an opinion.

So, no, I don't buy into the combat stress issue. Workplace stress or simply general burnout, yes, I can see that happening as a cumulative effect of years of extended shifts with little time off.

Sen. Claire McCaskill wants Pentagon to address new form of combat stress

Sen. Claire McCaskill has asked Air Force leaders to address a "unique form of combat stress" suffered by drone pilots engaged in remote surveillance and killing U.S. enemies.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jun 25 at 2015 12:58 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 12:58:26 -0400

Col, here's the deal: With advanced standoff warfare, we lost the capability of seeing the destruction we wrought. When we fired tank rounds, or Howitzers or M4's or whatever, we saw the immediate effect of our actions. This tempered our actions and made us think when we shot; we were taking a human life. By doing that calculus and realizing that it's "Us or them..." you are able to cope a little better.

When you do stand off warfare, whether it's with JDAMs, Tomahawks, BQM whatevers... we are disconnected from our battle damage. We don't SEE the effects of our actions, so it becomes very easy for our leaders to order this kind of warfare. Less risk to the troops, and less guilt because we don't see the lives we are destroying. No fuss, no muss, easy peasy lemon breezy...

BUT - the AF drone pilots were tasked with doing BDA after their missions. The didn't have the ability to truly "SEE" what they were bringing in advance, so they had no preparedness. Then, when they flew their drones in low orbits with super high-res cameras to do the BDA, they saw the mangled bodies - often civilian, since a 1000 lb bomb doesn't discriminate - nor does any missile. They can't sort out the civilians at the wedding party from the terrorist who is the "Ace of Spades."

These pilots were not in any way prepared for the damage that they saw, that they realized they caused. So, even though they were out of harm's way, going home at night and working in air conditioned bunkers, they suffer PTSD from this.

It may seem to you as a soldier that this is goldbrickery, but it is very real. I think it's actually a good thing that we are now doing BDA on our standoff weapons. IT brings the human cost back into the picture - hopefully the NCA will begin to realize that standoff warfare isn't as easy as it seems...

Always look for the unintended consequences...

V/R Rabbi Jaron

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Jun 25 at 2015 12:59 PM

SGT Jeremiah B. — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 12:59:07 -0400

Not sure I buy it, but killing is killing is killing. I would give some credit to the idea that squeezing a trigger on a target with limited awareness/surety of guilt and watching them die is a traumatic event that some people simply aren't equipped to handle.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 25 at 2015 1:35 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 13:35:48 -0400

I firmly believe adrenaline over a long period of time changes the constitution of the brain. It sounds like their optempo is high and their missions are complex. We can add another perspective: they kill people.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 25 at 2015 2:00 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 14:00:58 -0400

I am adamant that we turn our military into adrenaline junkies. I was in a PTSD group of 10 and half of them wanted to go back.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 2:46 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 14:46:16 -0400

Yes.....why would it not be a cause for PTSD.

I think knowing that you killed people via remote control could be a hard thing to deal with......I know it's not something I would have to wrestle with.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jun 25 at 2015 5:58 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 17:58:00 -0400

All of our stress levels differ, I have the patience of a farm animal, but not everyone is as dull as I am.

Do I think that drone pilots face stress ? Yes I do, anyone who has been tasked with a mission is stressed to some degree. Pilot A might be extremely stressed due to his makeup while Pilot B faces no stress at all. It may have to do with self-confidence.

The issue of PTSD isn't as cut and dry to me. I am going out on a limb here, but other than flying requirements, blowing people up in a manned aircraft and blowing people up from Las Vegas is still blowing people up.

Some just can't take that stress.

.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 6:58 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:58:16 -0400

I don't know if would call it a "unique" form of combat stress, rather it is just another form of PTSD that needs recognition. Yes, they are not in mortal danger, but that is not the only form of combat stress. I wouldn't deny that a drone operator/sensor operator is experiencing traumatic stress after they saw a Hellfire missile launched from their aircraft kill an innocent 2 year old who ran into the target area after the missile was launched.

Would we expect a police officer who just shot a person(s) and watched them die, to be able to go home afterwards and not have mental health issues? Why would we expect drone operators to be able to do so?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 7:13 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:13:48 -0400

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/20/how-america-broke-its-drone-force.html
This adds a more historical view of the situation drone pilots are experiencing. Add in the stress of a bomber crew and personally conducting your own BDA, subtract the fear of death and add the information from this article in, I can see a case being made. I'm not going to directly compare it to an up close and personal firefight, but they are definitely not playing Microsoft flight simulator X.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jun 26 at 2015 7:30 AM

SGT William Howell — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 07:30:11 -0400

So my question is this. Who has the ear of all these congressmen? First they are going to get a medal just for being a drone pilot, now they are going to get their own form of PTSD. Who do these guys know that the ground pounders don't?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 12:35 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 12:35:13 -0400

I'm quite certain they experience PTS, but seeing the effects of your efforts first hand, watching your brothers and closest friens get injured and killed right in front of you, and having to deal with that while turning around and heading right back out to do it again would have a greater impact in my opinion.

In either situation there are stressors at play. Both have a very real mental effect on a person. Is one more severe than the other? I don't think anyone can answer that. Everyone that experiences PTS reacts mentally and physiologically in their own way.

My own personal perspective and experience leads me to feel as though being physically present would lead to a more severe reaction. The issue with my view is that we all cope with the stressors of the exact same situation different than the others that were present. So yes, it's real and I buy it, even though I'll always be more biased towards the ground pounder's viewpoint.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 1:33 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:33:48 -0400

I find it difficult to believe.

If they get PTSD through what they do, perhaps so do those who play Call of Duty!

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jun 26 at 2015 2:19 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 14:19:36 -0400

COL Charles Williams, Collateral damage of their strikes or their decisions good or bad can have traumatic effects on their subconscious and psychic combined that with the reality that they are miles away from the action safe from harm only adds to their psychic. This is similar to a pilot dropping bombs on a village suspecting to house Taliban but later to discover that the Taliban had moved out and the only death and injury was to non- combat local villagers, women, children, and elderly. How many killings does it take for a pilot’s mind to be harmed by their actions? Given that we are dealing with a new weapon system and it is related to war it is logical to call it Combat Stress.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 2:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 14:48:01 -0400

I met a commander of such a unit. He gave a talk, and acknowledged its very real. They have to make life and death judgements. Ironically even though they live at home with their families, it can make if more difficult to cope with balancing family and work. Also, there would be less unit bonding than really being there. Here a good article I found.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/23/us/drone-pilots-found-to-get-stress-disorders-much-as-those-in-combat-do.html?_r=0

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Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 4:20 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 16:20:43 -0400

To me, it sounds like someone getting PTSD from reading documents on Interigations.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jun 26 at 2015 4:47 PM

SGT Richard H. — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 16:47:04 -0400

Honestly, from what I read, it sounds a lot more like fatigue from working too many hours than PTSD.

Response by GySgt Curtis L Leetch made Jun 26 at 2015 4:54 PM

GySgt Curtis L Leetch — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 16:54:16 -0400

I understand PTSD in those that have taken incoming (of any kind) in a continuous hostile environment. Real threats of life changing (or ending) moments, keeping your head on a swivel, and doing everything you can to ensure all your team mates all get home intact; , able to kiss their wife and hug their children. When an "event" does occur, you instinctively default to your training...
When I think of "Remote Warriors", I can rationalize the environment they reside in, and leave open the possibility that remotely taking out a building where innocent women/children may be (or finding out afterword), could be a contributing stressor in someone that did not thoroughly think the ramifications of their actions before they volunteered to serve in the "Green Gun Club".

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 26 at 2015 6:04 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 18:04:53 -0400

Keep in mind Sir, that everything causes stress, good and bad. You are zipping along in your drone, and you get the order to take out this target. You fire your hellfire, did you kill the target, to kill friendlies, did you just lay waist to a school full of kids. Not like the Guys in intel are giving you a ton of info besides "good hit." Now after you laid waste to the target, you get off your drone shift and go home to dinner. Now while for those of who been in the "box" this sounds great. But know when we pull that trigger it was a bad guy, they don't always know, and have to live with the fact they may have taken some innocents and will never know it. That would eat at many of us.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 7:54 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 19:54:39 -0400

Sir,

I thought I would offer my perspective for what it's worth.

I absolutely believe our RPA operators can suffer from some unique form of combat stress. Maybe it's not the same combat stress that our ground forces may face but we would be naive as a military to turn our back to operators because there boots aren't on the battlefield. These operators have the unique ability unlike anything in the history of warfare where they can fly combat missions during the day from thousands of miles away and then go home to their families at night. They are in combat with our enemy in places are ground forces aren't. We need to stop trying to compare what we know today as combat stress to the future of modern warfare.

Response by Sgt Jay Jones made Jun 26 at 2015 8:12 PM

Sgt Jay Jones — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 20:12:37 -0400

I'm sorry, but I fail to see stress unless you are talking about running out of batteries!

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Jun 26 at 2015 9:51 PM

SGT Rick Ash — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 21:51:03 -0400

No. I'M not buying it but I don't live the life/job they do....

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2015 11:04 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 23:04:16 -0400

I think one factor we may not consider is how intimately some of these drone pilots get to know their targets before eliminating them. I read about a pilot who explained how he had watched this one HVT over three weeks. He felt like a voyeur watching this man play with his kids, go to parties, have sex with his wife, and go about daily tasks until one day he got the word to pull the trigger. Of course this HVT had done some not so stellar things, but the point is, this pilot knew so much about this man's personal life becoming intimate with very personal details, then killing him. There is definitely a different dynamic in this experience than of what we experience in ground combat. I am not diminishing our role, or saying one is harder, they are different and since I have not experienced it, I cannot objectively judge it.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jun 27 at 2015 11:33 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sat, 27 Jun 2015 11:33:53 -0400

Ever spend too much time staring at a computer screen in gaming mode? Your body feels like crap afterwards. PTSD can be driven by short term bad experiences or slow burn. In the early stages of burn out, down time is the cure and monitoring to make sure you don't reach critical mass is warranted. However, Mil mentality is to press the mission and you'll get a part of the drone pilot bell curve going way past burn out. Military brass doesn't worry about it too much so long as they can get replacements and toss their newly created defect over to VA where they don't have to bother with him/her anymore. However, the brass has to pay attention to it because the attrition, body intake, and mission growth curves parted path some time ago.

In many ways, we're in uncharted territory in pushing humans into areas where we can't predict what will happen long term. It took decades for society to buy off on constant keyboarding causing carpal tunnel. We're just beginning to learn the dynamics of prolonged drone work.

Response by MSgt David Haupt made Jun 27 at 2015 12:36 PM

MSgt David Haupt — Sat, 27 Jun 2015 12:36:15 -0400

No I don't. First they can get awarded a medal higher than the Bronze Star and now PTSD. I worked a Dispatcher during some bad mortar and ground attacks does this mean I can get this too. I watched things unfold on a CCTV screen. This also means my wife can get compensation for her PTSD for the 7 deployments because of her stress levels and NOT knowing if I was coming home alive or in a BOX! Their getting just a whinny as Pilots!

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jun 27 at 2015 2:54 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sat, 27 Jun 2015 14:54:05 -0400

Some of the PTSD research from Vietnam indicated that some sources of PTSD come from the person's inability to reconcile what they did in combat with their sense of right and wrong, despite nessecity, situation and justification. Causing in some, to replay that event over and over, a way the brain attempts to make sense of things. It is like people dream about things that happen to them until it clicks. My friends had a similar experience after Airborne school during college. They replayed jump school over and over in dreams, until it clicked and they moved on. I use this as illustration, I do not diminish the real struggles that many have with combat related PTSD. It is a real thing and can shut people down from everything and everyone they care about.

I would hazard to guess that some involved with drone ops, fully aware of what they are doing and the consequences, have miss givings especially as they are not in immediate physical danger. Like somehow they are being skullduggerous. The brain may not reconcile the act with nessecity of survival, like reacting to contact or an IED strike. I would think that conceptually connecting the kinetic strike to protecting other service members or visiting justice upon a known bad guy with American blood on his hands would be useful in mitigating this. Some accounts I have read about those opposed, that have participated in kinetic UAV ops did not feel or believe in the connection. Establishing good pattern of life to avoid killing non-combatants would also help mitigate that mental conflict: ok , I killed people, it is ok because I killed just the bad people that hurt my teammates. We made sure. I did it right.

When talking mental health, there is not a one size fits all solution. If it were simple, we would have fixed it by now.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Jun 27 at 2015 8:42 PM

SrA Matthew Knight — Sat, 27 Jun 2015 20:42:44 -0400

The way I understand is yes the possibility that a mistake was made and the wrong building was hit is there, however even worse is just coping with the fact that you wake up in your house with spouse/kids or whatever, going to work and blowing things up and killing people only to go home for dinner with the family at the end of the day essentially having to act as though nothing significant has happened that day. I think that it is that particular aspect of it that is what causes so much stress.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Jun 28 at 2015 5:19 PM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Sun, 28 Jun 2015 17:19:59 -0400

Maybe it takes longer than 30 minutes to get their pizza delivered. I mean that already get to wear their one-zie and a cool leather jacket.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Jun 28 at 2015 5:22 PM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Sun, 28 Jun 2015 17:22:39 -0400

Maybe it takes longer than 30 minutes to get their pizza delivered.

Response by SFC Joseph Bosley made Jun 29 at 2015 11:14 AM

SFC Joseph Bosley — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 11:14:00 -0400

I have seen combat stress for real, not this made up stuff some soldiers want us to believe is PTSD so they can sit back and be safe. For the most part my experience with it is Doctors without a spine diagnosing everyone with everything they can think of almost like they get bonuses for every soldier they see. That being said stress takes many shapes and forms. I'm an infantryman by trade and have seen ground combat. I also ran a command post at both company and battalion level so i can also attest to the stress there also. Both exist, and they are very different; as are the ways that people deal with it. Honestly I'm on the fence about calling it combat stress, but it is still stress and if not relieved properly can effect you for years to come.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 11:41 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 11:41:39 -0400

Sir, I recommend you read On Killing and On Combat. Those books talk about the affects of combat and killing and the distance away from the action/killing etc. It opened my eyes a bit.

Response by CPL S Gibbs made Jun 29 at 2015 11:57 AM

CPL S Gibbs — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 11:57:22 -0400

Stupid is as stupid does.

Response by SFC Jeff Wonser made Jun 29 at 2015 2:49 PM

SFC Jeff Wonser — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:49:36 -0400

Sir,
I think PTSD is overanalyzed by the Veteran community and scrutiny is handed out freely. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, and I have also spent some time working at the Veteran Affairs as a Veteran Service Representative. I have seen PTSD range from a car accident, to a combat incident. Really, PTSD is a subjective ailment and what it would take for one to develop the disorder, would not be the same from person to person. I think that the Veteran community is the biggest critic to another Veteran. From the outside, a lot of the incidents that people claim for this ailment may look insignificant, but until we all walk a mile in another's shoes, who are we to judge?

Response by PO1 Dustin Adams made Jun 29 at 2015 5:54 PM

PO1 Dustin Adams — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:54:42 -0400

Honestly I didn't read every comment to see if someone else had mentioned this, but the VA has put out a specific internal policy for recognizing PTSD "combat stressors" for UAV pilots/controllers. Basically recognizing UAV pilots/controllers as experiencing in-service "combat stressors" as a valid stressor for service-connection of PTSD.

Response by SGT Christopher Hamman made Aug 11 at 2015 12:34 AM

SGT Christopher Hamman — Tue, 11 Aug 2015 00:34:05 -0400

I don't know, doesn't this sound like a case of MPH? ("My P Hurts!")